A county school board in Tennessee voted to ban a book on the Holocaust

[Kal-El814]

3 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Remember that time Boyne included a recipe from Breath of the Wild in his historical fiction novel because he clearly just googled “red dye,” took the first result, and did absolutely no other research? Almost like he blows ass.

 

John Boyne accidentally includes Zelda video game monsters in novel | Books | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

---

Novelist says details from careless Google search are ‘quite funny’ and he will leave his book as is after reader spots Octoroks and Lizalfos in his new book

 

 

[Keyser_Soze]

Man copies of Maus are going for $43 on Amazon.

[MarSolo]

2 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

Man copies of Maus are going for $43 on Amazon.

I didn’t realize it was two graphic novels.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

9 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

I didn’t realize it was two graphic novels.

It is, but it's commonly sold as one volume now.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Speaking of the Shoah...

 

Apology over Dutch book that claimed to identify Anne Frank’s betrayer | Holocaust | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

---

Ambo Anthos says it will stop printing The Betrayal of Anne Frank and admits more work is needed

 

Quote

 

A Dutch publisher has apologised for a book that made headlines around the world by identifying a Jewish notary as the prime suspect for the betrayal of Anne Frank to the Nazis.

 

Ambo Anthos has said that it had decided to suspend further prints of The Betrayal of Anne Frank until there was more work done on the book’s central claims.

 

In a statement, the publishing house said it now believed it had been carried away by “momentum” around publication of the book and that it should have take a more “critical” stance.

 

 

Quote

 

The Betrayal of Anne Frank, by Canadian author Rosemary Sullivan, is based on six years of research gathered by a team led by retired FBI detective Vince Pankoke.

 

The book was published on 18 January with some fanfare, including a CBS 60 Minutes programme.

 

But within 24 hours of publication, historians and researchers had raised doubts about the central theory that Arnold van den Bergh, who died of throat cancer in 1950, had probably led the police to the Frank family’s hiding place above a canal-side warehouse in the Jordaan area of Amsterdam on 4 August 1944.

 

Critics specifically questioned the evidence behind the claim that as a member of the Jewish council in Amsterdam, an administrative body the German authorities forced Jews to establish, Van den Bergh would probably have had access to the places in which Jewish people were hiding.

 

 

[Jason]

 

[Jason]

 

[ort]

I'm so sick of this fucking narrative. Yes, they are ruling over you, by trying to put in place good faith policies that attempt keep everyone safe and minimize human lives lost.

 

You know, similar policies to the ones being implemented by every fucking government across the civilized world. I mean, what are they doing, sitting in a back room smoking cigars and laughing about making everyone wear masks?  What's the conspiracy? What's the master plot? To make Pfizer money? To control people? How? how does it benefit ANYONE to shut things down? How does that help the people in power? It's so fucking stupid. It's so unbelievably stupid. I'm just over it. Fuck all these people. just get COVID and fucking die. I don't care anymore.

 

It's like if you broke your foot and your doctor told you to stay off it for two weeks and you were all like, HELL NO, YOU CAN'T CONTROL ME! It's my foot! (ow)

[Kal-El814]

On 1/30/2022 at 9:23 PM, CayceG said:

I'll speak more to what sbl is saying. In short, you are correct. This does the work for the aims of the far right. But sbl is right that the conservative evangelical purity culture is the place where these people are starting from when they make these decisions. We don't have to give them the benefit of the doubt when we explain it this way--and we aren't doing that. Because they're accomplishing just what an openly far right board would have done. 

 

The people making these rules just aren't the types of strategic deep thinkers to be cunning about this. They're dumb and reactive to the most surface level bullshit like nudity and coarse language. 

 

It's why the overt far-right policymakers getting all the attention in politics isn't the only thing. There's a spotlight to put on the non-political conservative evangelical types and the morality police that seemingly don't have any political ideological root to their aims. Because the same outcomes are derived from it. 

 

To me it gets back to what’s discussed here:

 

 

 

I just don’t think you can divorce the intersection of purity culture and education / public policy without dipping your toes into waters upstream from white supremacy. I personally don’t like it at an individual / family level either based on what the origin of it often is, but I don’t particularly care. I go back to people whose tabletop gaming content I’ve watched, who own a gaming store in Tulsa, who didn’t know about the race massacre until they saw Watchmen. I’ve little doubt the stated reason those events didn’t end up in the local curriculum were similar to this… these kids are young, no objection to them learning history but does it need to be so violent, etc. But it doesn’t hold up. It would be one thing if schools were handing out brazzers memberships as part of sex ed.

[Anathema-]

It's an excuse to get what they want. They want the book banned and flat nonsense allowed them to justify it to themselves. I don't have to agree that their justifications have any innocence and I refuse to coddle people so cowardly. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

3 hours ago, Anathema- said:

It's an excuse to get what they want. They want the book banned and flat nonsense allowed them to justify it to themselves. I don't have to agree that their justifications have any innocence and I refuse to coddle people so cowardly. 

And these people are part of a movement absolutely rife with open anti semitism let’s not forget that. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Anathema- said:

It's an excuse to get what they want. They want the book banned and flat nonsense allowed them to justify it to themselves. I don't have to agree that their justifications have any innocence and I refuse to coddle people so cowardly. 

You refuse to learn from people who grew up in this culture and know it well. Really nothing to be proud about.

[Chris-]

Whole lotta ‘distinction without a difference’ going on ITT. 

[Anathema-]

9 hours ago, sblfilms said:

You refuse to learn from people who grew up in this culture and know it well. Really nothing to be proud about.

 

You don't know what culture I grew up in. I don't have to be unfamiliar with it to reject it. In fact it's far more likely, from all you know, to be a result of me being sick and tired of putting up with this shit.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Anathema- said:

 

You don't know what culture I grew up in. I don't have to be unfamiliar with it to reject it. In fact it's far more likely, from all you know, to be a result of me being sick and tired of putting up with this shit.

 

Hey, I could be forgetting things, my memory certainly isn't perfect. But Tennessee, particularly the smaller areas like where this took place are dominated by the religious sects that Cayce and I grew up in and are different from what I recall you stating. If I'm incorrect, my apologies. 

And the familiarity is necessary to *understand* it. Those who are outside can recognize the ill effects of cultures, but that doesn't mean they remotely understand the hows and whys that lead to those ills. Far too often I see people reverse engineer their understanding from outcomes. This is part of why we have the terribly lazy "ITS WHITE SUPREMACY!" claim about everything now. 

[Jason]

White supremacy is baked into the culture in these places. 

[CayceG]

10 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

 

Hey, I could be forgetting things, my memory certainly isn't perfect. But Tennessee, particularly the smaller areas like where this took place are dominated by the religious sects that Cayce and I grew up in and are different from what I recall you stating. If I'm incorrect, my apologies. 

And the familiarity is necessary to *understand* it. Those who are outside can recognize the ill effects of cultures, but that doesn't mean they remotely understand the hows and whys that lead to those ills. Far too often I see people reverse engineer their understanding from outcomes. This is part of why we have the terribly lazy "ITS WHITE SUPREMACY!" claim about everything now. 

 

Understanding why the people are doing and seeing the downstream effects of what they're doing are different. 

 

The downstream effects are what's most important. Understanding why allows people to address the policy. Unfortunately, these type of people won't be swayed by any forms of addressing the policy. So it's all moot at the end of the day. 

 

 

And what led to this--what I explained was the root here for why the school board made their decision--literally IS white supremacy. bmbmbm is right in that the culture is steeped in anti-Semitism (though the people in the culture won't recognize it as such). The downstream effects are what perpetuate white supremacy. 

 

It isn't lazy. It's just that simple. 

 

We can't explain why white supremacy is wrong to the people perpetuating it. Understanding it doesn't help when the people perpetuating it don't even realize what they're doing. The way out of this is to have generational turnover. 

[Anathema-]

46 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

 

Hey, I could be forgetting things, my memory certainly isn't perfect. But Tennessee, particularly the smaller areas like where this took place are dominated by the religious sects that Cayce and I grew up in and are different from what I recall you stating. If I'm incorrect, my apologies. 

And the familiarity is necessary to *understand* it. Those who are outside can recognize the ill effects of cultures, but that doesn't mean they remotely understand the hows and whys that lead to those ills. Far too often I see people reverse engineer their understanding from outcomes. This is part of why we have the terribly lazy "ITS WHITE SUPREMACY!" claim about everything now. 

 

I didn't grow up in Tennessee but that doesn't mean much. In any case it's best not to reduce the validity of an argument to the history of the person presenting the argument. 

 

And as I recall I didn't say white supremacy. I said patriarchal oppression. White supremacy is actually downstream from that. 

 

Puritanicalism is nothing more than a system of control. The rules are for the oppressed, not the oppressors.  There is no innocence in anyone who perpetuates the system.

[Anathema-]

But I also don't believe you have to beg forgiveness or atone for your sins before you die so my perspective may be fundamentally different. 

[Anathema-]

P.S. I guess we're all downstreaming tonight. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

10 hours ago, Chris- said:

Whole lotta ‘distinction without a difference’ going on ITT. 

 

Exactly.

 

The inherent nature of vast swathes of the American Protestant religious tradition is so very steeped in white supremacy that it's a fool's errand to attempt extricate one from the other or to draw distinctions.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

1 hour ago, CayceG said:

We can't explain why white supremacy is wrong to the people perpetuating it. Understanding it doesn't help when the people perpetuating it don't even realize what they're doing.

As an example of this since I grew up in pasty white Appalachia, there was a childhood game called ding dong ditch, or as it was called where I grew up, n****r knocking. Might have been called the same where you grew up I dunno. I didn’t know what the word meant, I wasn’t curious about it, and so that’s what ding dong ditch was. There was also no one to correct or otherwise push back on this name because for one, there were literally no Black people in my hometown and two, the white supremacy and racism is just baked in.
 

Was it horribly racist? Absofuckinglutely. Was there any way for me to know this pre internet in a homogeneous small town in the hills? No way! Like a lot of things from my childhood I didn’t realize how problematic, racist, homophobic, or just plain wrong they were until I was older thinking back on my childhood. There’s definitely other examples but this one is the easiest and quickest to explain. 

[CayceG]

4 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

As an example of this since I grew up in pasty white Appalachia, there was a childhood game called ding dong ditch, or as it was called where I grew up, n****r knocking. Might have been called the same where you grew up I dunno. I didn’t know what the word meant, I wasn’t curious about it, and so that’s what ding dong ditch was. There was also no one to correct or otherwise push back on this name because for one, there were literally no Black people in my hometown and two, the white supremacy and racism is just baked in.
 

Was it horribly racist? Absofuckinglutely. Was there any way for me to know this pre internet in a homogeneous small town in the hills? No way! Like a lot of things from my childhood I didn’t realize how problematic, racist, homophobic, or just plain wrong they were until I was older thinking back on my childhood. There’s definitely other examples but this one is the easiest and quickest to explain. 

 

 

We knew it as ding dong ditching. I grew up in West Tennessee, which has a much higher black population than most Appalachian areas. 

 

HOWEVER...

 

My grandmother kept a ball peen hammer in the side pocket of her car door to use on potential carjackers. (Were there carjackings or purse snatchers in my small hometown? No, not really.) She called the hammer her n-word knocker. When my mom or whoever would tell her she can't use that word, she'd just go "well, that's just what we call it!" It was just what some things were named. It was just the way things were. 

 

White supremacy!

 

 

[Anathema-]

Turkey In The Straw is played on ice cream trucks because of racism. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Man, growing up in a country where I was VERY much the minority means that I had quite a different experience

 

[Jason]

8 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Man, growing up in a country where I was VERY much the minority means that I had quite a different experience

 

 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Lmao just lol

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Lmao just lol

This was plainly obvious in the meeting minutes 😂

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

People who aren’t journalists who read the school board minutes of a district on the other side of the country are psychopaths 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

People who aren’t journalists who read the school board minutes of a district on the other side of the country are psychopaths 

[Fizzzzle]

 

[Keyser_Soze]

Interesting article. Didn't know they removed To Kill a Mockingbird from some schools

 

Book Bans Are Back. Here's What's In Danger. - The Atlantic

WWW.THEATLANTIC.COM

---

These 14 titles have been under attack for doing exactly what literature is supposed to do.

 

[Air_Delivery]

The Inside Story of the Banning of “Maus.” It’s Dumber Than You Think. – Mother Jones

WWW.MOTHERJONES.COM

---

I read the minutes of the McMinn County, Tennessee, school board so you don’t have to.

Quote

To make his point, Cochran raised the issue of a poem that he claimed was being taught in seventh grade and he insisted on reading it:

I’m just wild about Harry, and Harry’s wild about me/ The heavenly blisses of his kisses, fill me with ecstasy/ He’s sweet just like chocolate candy/ Just like honey from the bee/ Oh I am just wild about Harry, and he’s just wild about me

 

[Keyser_Soze]

6 minutes ago, Air_Delivery said:

I read the minutes of the McMinn County, Tennessee, school board so you don’t have to.

 

Too late. @sblfilms already did.