General Gaming Can we just appreciate that we have mostly moved on from save points?

[Fizzzzle]

I'm playing Baten Kaitos on Dolphin right now, and there's a problem with the emulation that causes crashing sometimes when certain objects appear on screen. Most of the time it happens right after save points, so it hasn't been a huge deal other than a couple times.

 

Remember having a game crash, or a power outage, or just simply dying in game and losing an hour or two of progress? Those were fun times, weren't they? There have been times where I've lost like 2 hours in a game and simply quit and never played it again. It's totally soul crushing. Tonight, I only lost like 20 minutes of progress, and it still made me want to stop playing and go to bed.

 

I remember when games started incorporating auto-saves more, there were plenty of HARDCORE gamers who were like "but then there's no penalty for dying!" Get fucked, auto-saves are the best.

 

(also I know no one here plays The Sims, but The Sims 4 still doesn't have a functioning autosave without mods. Sorry if one of your characters you've spent 20 hours developing dies from doing the dishes and you haven't remembered to save)

[Greatoneshere]

I agree - saving anywhere is the best for the most part, though manipulating the way one has to save as a game mechanic can be cool or well integrated from time to time in certain genres/games. More importantly, props on playing Baten Kaitos - other than the sadly poor dub, great game! The sequel (technically a prequel) is also great!

[Fizzzzle]

2 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

I agree - saving anywhere is the best for the most part, though manipulating the way one has to save as a game mechanic can be cool or well integrated from time to time in certain genres/games. More importantly, props on playing Baten Kaitos - other than the sadly poor dub, great game! The sequel (technically a prequel) is also great!

I've played it before, it's just been a long time. I probably haven't played it since 2005. I started Origins, but never finished it. I probably only got like 5 or so hours in. And yeah, the dub is next-level bad, but at least the characters' mouths don't move when they talk, and you can turn off the voices, so it's not distracting. But yeah, it's one of the great hidden gems of JRPGs that most people seemed to skip over. That and Lost Odyssey. And Suikoden... well, all Suikoden games.

 

You're right, though, certain games incorporate fixed saving really well. Stardew Valley is one that comes to mind - the game saves at the end of each day, which makes it really addicting because you want to wake up and tend to the farm, then before you know it, "shit, might as well finish the rest of the day." I'm pretty sure an in-game day only takes like 15 minutes, but it adds up really quickly.

[johnny]

agreed. frequent saves/checkpoints are awesome. 

[Keyser_Soze]

I appreciate auto saves not necessarily moving on from save points.

[gamer.tv]

Yep I agree. I’m fine with having set areas where I can upgrade my character - but I do love being able to set down a game and pick up again with no issues.

[Phaseknox]

2 hours ago, Fizzzzle said:

I know no one here plays The Sims

I do. The Sims Bustin’ Out is my favorite in the series. I have The Sims 4 for PS4, but I haven’t played it yet.
 

2 hours ago, Fizzzzle said:

it's one of the great hidden gems of JRPGs that most people seemed to skip over. That and Lost Odyssey. And Suikoden... well, all Suikoden games.

I preordered Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean back in the day for GameCube, and I still have the wall scroll that I got for preordering it. Lost Osyssey is one of my favorite JRPGs, and I’ve played all of the Suikoden games - Suikoden V is my favorite in the series. I’m a JRPG junkie.

[Xbob42]

I'm torn. We need the ability to put down a game any time and resume, worry-free. But to me, that's a separate issue from making death in games matter. I think games are way less fun and interesting and rewarding when you can just die 8,000 times and you only lose the minute or so you spent in the fight. It's smoother and more convenient, but then I just kind of don't give a shit about actually winning. Same when games are just too easy. It turns the concept of conflict into a chore rather than a struggle and a test of what you've learned. 

 

Ironically, it makes EVERY encounter feel like something I've done a thousand times because with no challenge or fear or failure, it's barely different than running up to a terminal and holding X to hack it. Menial, repetitive. 

 

Of course, I also hate losing progress because I hate redoing anything twice most of the time, I rarely even watch movies twice and wonder how anyone can watch the same film dozens or hundreds of times without going insane. 

 

So I guess what I'm saying is I want a system that has meaningful consequences for failure, but not the soul killing tedium of repetition that is save point hostage situations. 

[best3444]

2 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

I appreciate auto saves not necessarily moving on from save points.

 

This. Also, every fucking game should allow you to save ANYTIME you want. That's right...even in the middle of a "boss" fight.

[Biggie]

Stopped reading after playing Baten Kaitos on Dolphin

[Keyser_Soze]

20 minutes ago, Biggie said:

Stopped reading after playing Baten Kaitos on Dolphin

 

Stopped reading and immediately went to play Baten Kaitos Origins?

[Xbob42]

1 hour ago, best3444 said:

 

This. Also, every fucking game should allow you to save ANYTIME you want. That's right...even in the middle of a "boss" fight.

Well yeah if it takes half an hour to aim your gun then you definitely need a quick save button. 

[Fizzzzle]

4 hours ago, Phaseknox said:

I do. The Sims Bustin’ Out is my favorite in the series. I have The Sims 4 for PS4, but I haven’t played it yet.
 

I preordered Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean back in the day for GameCube, and I still have the wall scroll that I got for preordering it. Lost Osyssey is one of my favorite JRPGs, and I’ve played all of the Suikoden games - Suikoden V is my favorite in the series. I’m a JRPG junkie.

The Sims 4 is... alright. I've still played it a lot, but The Sims 3 was honestly one of my favorite games to play, ever. The cohesive, consistent open world was a blast to play through. I would still be playing it if it didn't get to the point of having so many expansions and stuff packs and shit that the game is almost unplayable if you have everything installed.

 

A lot of people don't like EA's monetization of The Sims games (if you dove all in on The Sims 4 from nothing right now and bought everything, it would cost you almost $800). But, in EA's defense, I think a lot of people that play The Sims kind of *only* play the Sims. Some expansions are wildly overpriced for what they offer, some aren't, it kind of depends.

 

As for Suikoden, I think I'm the only person who thinks V is the worst of the main series. Not that that makes it "bad" by any means, they're all still really good, I just rank all 4 previous ones over it. Maybe even Tierkreis, too.

[Keyser_Soze]

They made Sims 4 mostly good over time. The thing is it's such a time sink I have to keep myself from playing it.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Quick Save/Save Anywhere should be the goddamned standard by now anyway.

[best3444]

1 hour ago, Xbob42 said:

Well yeah if it takes half an hour to aim your gun then you definitely need a quick save button. 

 

What? 

 

11 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Quick Save/Save Anywhere should be the goddamned standard by now anyway.

 

Great minds think alike. 

[Bloodporne]

I remember the first time it dawned on me what it means that Souls games save all the time. LOL I just used 10 humanity because I liked seeing that counter go up.........OH SHIT....WAIT.....NOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

 

[Xbob42]

Just now, Bloodporne said:

I remember the first time it dawned on me what it means that Souls games save all the time. LOL I just used 10 humanity because I liked seeing that counter go up.........OH SHIT....WAIT.....NOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

 

Souls games are a great example of the two concepts of autosaving and punishment for death not just being mutually exclusive, but where one actually makes the other more impactful. Killed an NPC? Fuck you, they're dead. Don't hit them next time, dumbass.

 

Course, not all games can work like that, so I'd like to see something more universally applicable.

[Paperclyp]

Now that most games do let you save anywhere it makes the ones that don’t let you stand out in a real bad way. 
 

Though if used properly I think save points can have their place. 

[Bloodporne]

I like save points if they're cleverly placed and integrated into the gameplay loop. There's a wide variety of save point styles that can indeed range from archaic and stupid to being a clever part of the core loop.

 

Like most things, it depends how it's used in my opinion. I've played quite a few modern games where you just respawn like ten seconds earlier and felt like it ended up boring me because there was no real meaning to failing. 

[BloodyHell]

18 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

What? 

 

 

Great minds think alike. 

He is making fun of the terrible gunplay in rdr2.

[Bloodporne]

2 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

He is making fun of the terrible gunplay in rdr2.

Shooting in RDR2 felt like controlling a dude with two non-dominant hands missing several fingers on each...who also happens to have an early case of MS. 

[Fizzzzle]

23 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

They made Sims 4 mostly good over time. The thing is it's such a time sink I have to keep myself from playing it.

I usually use either The Sims, Stardew Valley, or Cities: Skylines as kind of a palate cleanser between games, especially if I just finished a super long one.

[XxEvil AshxX]

I can appreciate save points after cutscenes instead of before them.

[crispy4000]

41 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

Like most things, it depends how it's used in my opinion. I've played quite a few modern games where you just respawn like ten seconds earlier and felt like it ended up boring me because there was no real meaning to failing. 

 

That's the Uncharted games in a nutshell for me.  Difficulty spikes can feel almost like padding.  But I can leap off ledges like I'm playing Sands of Time, which I kind of appreciate.

[dualhunter]

Autosave is great as a supplement to manual saving. If the game crashes or the power goes out it's nice to minimize lost progress. However, autosave can be like invisible save points. With just a basic checkpoint system, the checkpoints are invisible save points that don't require the use of a menu and you can't stop without losing progress unless you continue to the next checkpoint which depending on the game could be a simple screen away or require a significant amount of time to reach. And if you're playing at 4K and the save notification is a tiny icon in the corner make sure you're looking for it so that you know it saved. Autosave can be really annoying for missables if you can't also manually save and load or at least restart the level. It sucks if the game just autosaved after you just missed something if you can't get back to the thing you missed. If there's no manual saving, at least give a save on quit option so you can be sure your progress is completely saved.

 

As for Dolphin, just use save states. In game saves are still useful as a backup (if you upgrade Dolphin your save states might not work whereas the in game saves should be fine) or for new game plus however.

 

For cutscenes save before and after. After so that you don't have to watch it again but before because over the years I've encountered crashes and bugged out cutscenes.

 

I got my first battery backup after the power went out playing FFXII, but got tired of replacing them so I recently went back to a power bar since autosave is so common these days.

 

[Bloodporne]

12 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

That's the Uncharted games in a nutshell for me.  Difficulty spikes can feel almost like padding.  But I can leap off ledges like I'm playing Sands of Time, which I kind of appreciate.

The last Uncharted I played was 3 and I vividly remember thinking that the no-stakes approach to death made the game feel even more popcorn Hollywood than it actually is. As a whole, I just feel like that series introduced so much shit I can't stand into modern gaming. 

[best3444]

58 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

He is making fun of the terrible gunplay in rdr2.

 

lol, not bad. 

 

55 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

Shooting in RDR2 felt like controlling a dude with two non-dominant hands missing several fingers on each...who also happens to have an early case of MS. 

 

 

[crispy4000]

2 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

The last Uncharted I played was 3 and I vividly remember thinking that the no-stakes approach to death made the game feel even more popcorn Hollywood than it actually is. As a whole, I just feel like that series introduced so much shit I can't stand into modern gaming. 

I wouldn't say it introduced anything, other than than doing cutscene/gameplay transitions more seamlessly.  There's not many modern games that are as linear as it, at least not in the AAA space.

[Fizzzzle]

9 minutes ago, dualhunter said:

Autosave can be really annoying for missables if you can't also manually save and load or at least restart the level. It sucks if the game just autosaved after you just missed something if you can't get back to the thing you missed. 

 

That's a good point. 

 

On a related note, I appreciate when games give you some kind of warning before you are about to leave an area saying "yo, I hope you got what you needed, it's gonna be a while."

[Bjomesphat]

Disagree.

 

I think auto save takes a lot of challenge out of games. Of course no one wants to redo something because a game crashed or there was a power outage, but that would maybe be an issue for like less than 1% of the time you're gaming. What I do think should be implemented in its place is suspend states. Kind of like what Souls games do. You can suspend your game anytime, but when you reload the game that suspend state is gone.

 

Obviously this is a per-game basis. Depending on the game you should be able to save whenever you want, and auto save is fine. In other games, finding save points is part of the challenge.

 

However, the biggest failure that's been happening in games for like the last 2 decades is when you quit out of a game and all it tells you is "Any unsaved progress will be lost". Just tell me when my last save was! I shouldn't be questioning the save I made literally 2 seconds ago.

[Fizzzzle]

3 minutes ago, Bjomesphat said:

Disagree.

 

I think auto save takes a lot of challenge out of games. Of course no one wants to redo something because a game crashed or there was a power outage, but that would maybe be an issue for like less than 1% of the time you're gaming. What I do think should be implemented in its place is suspend states. Kind of like what Souls games do. You can suspend your game anytime, but when you reload the game that suspend state is gone.

 

Obviously this is a per-game basis. Depending on the game you should be able to save whenever you want, and auto save is fine. In other games, finding save points is part of the challenge.

 

However, the biggest failure that's been happening in games for like the last 2 decades is when you quit out of a game and all it tells you is "Any unsaved progress will be lost". Just tell me when my last save was! I shouldn't be questioning the save I made literally 2 seconds ago.

It depends on what you want out of a game, I suppose. For me, there's like an x-y slope for how long a game is and how difficult I want it to be. If a game is a 60 hour long investment, I don't to be losing a ton of progress every time I die, or even dying a lot to begin with. The game is already a major time sink. Exploration and atmosphere are much more important to me in games like that.

 

However, I do love difficulty in shorter games, but saving doesn't tend to be as big of an issue. in those.

[Bloodporne]

1 hour ago, Bjomesphat said:

However, the biggest failure that's been happening in games for like the last 2 decades is when you quit out of a game and all it tells you is "Any unsaved progress will be lost". Just tell me when my last save was! I shouldn't be questioning the save I made literally 2 seconds ago.

This gets me every fucking time. That message pops up and it's

 

 

"Did you...or DID YOU NOT...save your FUCKING game, son!?"

[GameDadGrant]

I've always appreciated the "Quick Save" feature in some games. I think Game Boy Advance was the first time I encountered that feature. "Sleep Mode" on portables from GBA onward has also been great, though it doesn't really effect (affect?) the difficulty of games one way or the other.

[crispy4000]

Since I'm playing it, I hate the way FFIX handles cloud saves on Steam.

 

SquareEnix had to be different.  You get one slot for a cloud save you must copy to from the main menu.  Delete the game and forget to upload?  Sorry, your save is gone for good.  In fact, all of them.  Kaput.

 

Not too big deal if you know.  But wanting a fresh install for Moguri mod made me realize my prior save was toast.