Spork3245 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 I'm not saying anyone should worry about the J&J vaccine, but if there are two approved alternatives that do not have the potential side-effect, why not use them since supply doesn't seem to be an issue anymore? With birth control, it's different, because there isn't an alternative oral contraceptive that doesn't have a chance for blood clots ([insert_BJ_joke])- if one were to be released/approved tomorrow with less side-effects, most people would change over to the new one. I don't see the issue with going "hey, let's focus on the vaccines with 0/1,000,000 negative reactions until we investigate this further". Like, I get it, we want to vaccinate as many people as possible as quickly as possible, and the 1/1,000,000 estimate is "fine", but there's alternatives that aren't exactly difficult to get without the possible sides. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: jesus The risk is very low and the pause shouldn’t happen, but be careful with these comparisons. That rate is annual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Joe said: The risk is very low and the pause shouldn’t happen, but be careful with these comparisons. That rate is annual. You know these J&J + AZ issues are potentially good news for Novavax's vaccine getting approval. I mean, I'd totally agree regarding not pausing if there weren't two alternative vaccines available with no reported blood clot issues. As, the (incredibly) small risk of this side is greatly outweighed by protection against COVID-19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Spork3245 said: You know these J&J + AZ issues are potentially good news for Novavax's vaccine getting approval. I mean, I'd totally agree regarding not pausing if there weren't two alternative vaccines available with no reported blood clot issues. As, the (incredibly) small risk of this side is greatly outweighed by protection against COVID-19. I know I should be “happy” about this, but I’m mostly just furious lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, ManUtdRedDevils said: The US and EU largely funded and developed all of these vaccines. It's hardly surprising they would claim dibs on a majority of what is produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, Joe said: I know I should be “happy” about this, but I’m mostly just furious lol. The only thing I'm upset about is that this potentially gives anti-vax/anti-COVID-vax people ammo. It's odd that the vaccines that mixed old-tech w/new-tech are having these blood clot issues (partial-virion w/added DNA markers (iirc) as opposed to a whole-virion (old tech) or mRNA (new tech)). Interested to see if Covaxin has the same issues, but I'm leaning towards that it won't based on their P3s and different approach. mRNA seems to be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Spork3245 said: The only thing I'm upset about is that this potentially gives anti-vax/anti-COVID-vax people ammo. It's odd that the vaccines that mixed old-tech w/new-tech are having these blood clot issues (partial-virion w/added DNA markers (iirc) as opposed to a whole-virion (old tech) or mRNA (new tech)). Interested to see if Covaxin has the same issues, but I'm leaning towards that it won't based on their P3s and different approach. mRNA seems to be fine. It’s going to slow rollout because a lot of people irrationally prefer J&J to other vaccines. Still, regarding your point about availability l, if there was ever a time for them to do this, it was now I suppose. I’m seeing appointments in NJ just sitting there for the first time ever and we have one of the best rollouts in the nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Joe said: It’s going to slow rollout because a lot of people irrationally prefer J&J to other vaccines. Still, regarding your point about availability l, if there was ever a time for them to do this, it was now I suppose. I’m seeing appointments in NJ just sitting there for the first time ever and we have one of the best rollouts in the nation. The amount of people wanting/preferring/turning down others for the J&J is mind-boggling. I was actively trying not to get the J&J unless I had no other choice (still would've gotten it if others simply weren't available after a 2-3 days of trying). There seems to be a low-key (false) narrative (anecdotally) that the J&J was "safer" because it was more "old school" and the pfizer/moderna were "experimental" Then, of course, there were those that simply wanted the J&J because it was only 1 shot, and god fucking forbid they have to drive somewhere twice in a month... and ignoring the fact that both the pfizer and moderna have similar/better efficacy after 3-4 weeks from the first shot than the J&J does. But, whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 My wife definitely didn't like the side effects I had with the second dose of the Moderna, so that tied together with the ease of a single dose led her to get the J&J vaccine. She felt a little groggy the next day, but appears to be back to normal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Joe said: The key word here is "for decades"... they have decades of Data to go on regarding birth control. These vaccines are what, 7, 8 months old for a disease that's only a year old? It's not like they're pulling the vaccine off the market. They're being extra cautious which, given the circumstances makes sense. Again, I took the J&J vaccine myself and I'm not worried but like I said, between this and the production problems that J&J have had... it makes sense to me for there to be a pause... who gives a shit what the anti vaccine crowd thinks? They were never gonna take it in the first place. I know because I know a few anti-vaxxers. Their minds were made up regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said: The key word here is "for decades"... they have decades of Data to go on regarding birth control. These vaccines are what, 7, 8 months old for a disease that's only a year old? It's not like they're pulling the vaccine off the market. They're being extra cautious which, given the circumstances makes sense. Again, I took the J&J vaccine myself and I'm not worried but like I said, between this and the production problems that J&J have had... it makes sense to me for there to be a pause... who gives a shit what the anti vaccine crowd thinks? They were never gonna take it in the first place. I know because I know a few anti-vaxxers. Their minds were made up regardless. There are vaccine hesitant people that this will definitely affect. My older sister being one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 38 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: The US and EU largely funded and developed all of these vaccines. It's hardly surprising they would claim dibs on a majority of what is produced. And also simultaneously blocking the ability of global south countries from developing vaccines based on the IP funded in large part by the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Joe said: There are vaccine hesitant people that this will definitely affect. My older sister being one. That still doesn't make this the wrong decision. My YOUNGER sister will probably use this to continue to resist getting the vaccine as well. Just like she used my side effects as an excuse. People are gonna lean in whatever direction they're inclined to lean towards. All you can do is continue to give them all of the available information that's out there and hope they decide accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 I’m actually sympathetic to the position the FDA is in. I still think the best option is to continue on with the J&J vaccine. There are no medical treatments that don’t have some adverse reactions in some people, and the magnitude of the adverse reaction here is frankly insignificant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 The biggest problem is the media coverage of this pause rather than the pause itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Yeah um this is why I shouldn't get histrionic over the internet lol. Quote FDA acting commissioner Janet Woodcock said it expected the pause to be a matter of days, and it was aimed at providing information to healthcare providers so that they can diagnose, treat and report such blood clots. FDA official Peter Marks said that part of the reason for the pause was to warn doctors that administering the standard treatments for clots can cause tremendous harm, or be fatal. U.S. pauses J&J COVID-19 vaccine over rare blood clots | Reuters WWW.REUTERS.COM U.S. federal health agencies on Tuesday recommended pausing the use of Johnson & Johnson's COVID-19 vaccine after six women under 50 given the shot developed rare blood clots, dealing a fresh setback to efforts to tackle the pandemic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Impossible to argue with that, but as @b_m_b_m_b_m said, the issue is the messaging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 I already got a panicked phone call from one of my staff who received the J&J vaccine on Saturday. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Also! People should stop saying it's one in a million. That statistic is false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 26 minutes ago, sblfilms said: I’m actually sympathetic to the position the FDA is in. I still think the best option is to continue on with the J&J vaccine. There are no medical treatments that don’t have some adverse reactions in some people, and the magnitude of the adverse reaction here is frankly insignificant. Yeah, the people complaining about the probability are likely people who have never had to deal with major medical treatment before. Lucky them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said: That still doesn't make this the wrong decision. My YOUNGER sister will probably use this to continue to resist getting the vaccine as well. Just like she used my side effects as an excuse. People are gonna lean in whatever direction they're inclined to lean towards. All you can do is continue to give them all of the available information that's out there and hope they decide accordingly. Yeah, I’ve got co-workers that look for any article/blog/tweet they can that has a story against the vaccines. One believes that the vaccines don’t actually prevent Covid, because they found an article stating in are some 230 people vaccinated still got Covid and several even died. Also that the vaccines kills unborn babies and can prevent future pregnancies. He also thinks Covid was overblown to get us to give up freedom and be controlled. and another coworker claims he read articles that the vaccines permanently changes your DNA. To what end I don’t know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 But I thought donald personally developed these vaccines so why would he dabbling in conspiracies???!?!?!?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 3 hours ago, CayceG said: Pfizer gang rise up. Pfizer will help us all rise up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaku3 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 [@AGDWS] CONMEBOL has reached an agreement with the Chinese pharmaceutical company Sinovac to provide vaccines for the Copa América "Worth noting that the vaccines will be used also for the entire personnel (players, coaches, staff and so on) of all the teams of the top leagues in Conmebol, male and female, and all the continental competitions, that is, Libertadores and Sudamericana." Found this on reddit. I doubt Copa America will have spectators. I wanted to go but I don't think spectators will be allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 52 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: But I thought donald personally developed these vaccines so why would he dabbling in conspiracies???!?!?!?? Cliffs please. I don't want to read any statements (in full) by Fuckface von Clownstick. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 20 minutes ago, Spork3245 said: Cliffs please. I don't want to read any statements (in full) by Fuckface von Clownstick. Biden did bad by the pause, and was probably put up to it by Pfizer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osxmatt Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Jason said: @Fizzzzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: Yeah, I’ve got co-workers that look for any article/blog/tweet they can that has a story against the vaccines. One believes that the vaccines don’t actually prevent Covid, because they found an article stating in are some 230 people vaccinated still got Covid and several even died. Also that the vaccines kills unborn babies and can prevent future pregnancies. He also thinks Covid was overblown to get us to give up freedom and be controlled. and another coworker claims he read articles that the vaccines permanently changes your DNA. To what end I don’t know. A really close friend of mine who thinks his holistic medicine practices and internal martial arts training has protected him from COVID hit me with this one the other day... along with the theory that the powers that be are installing bio-trackers in our bodies via the vaccines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 3 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: The biggest problem is the media coverage of this pause rather than is that we are a nation of ill informed, entitled morons with no discipline and critical thinking rather than the pause itself. fixed that for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finaljedi Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 3 hours ago, CitizenVectron said: Yeah, the people complaining about the probability are likely people who have never had to deal with major medical treatment before. Lucky them! Or hell, even minor medical procedures, I feel like the crap you have to sign and listen to for dental fillings would put these people off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzzzle Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 38 minutes ago, osxmatt said: @Fizzzzle That's true. Especially in the fall towards when we had to lockdown again and in December. I never hated my job so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoberChef Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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