General Gaming This is why I won't be buying a next-gen console

[crispy4000]

... until their mid cycle refreshes come out.  Cued for time:

 

We've now reached a point where the X/Pro are targeted to such an extreme that launch hardware is untenable. 

I feel like the focus here was building an inter-generational game (this gen to the next), without much respect for baseline hardware.  I imagine it'll only get worse as cross-gen titles are announced.  It was already a problem before Control.  But the sign is clear: If you buy at launch, don't expect to get a full generation.  That's kind of shit to be honest.

 

I know that good trade-in deals are a viable option (for now ... Gamestop might die).  But it really seems to me like a little patience pays off more.  If I wait until a revision, I'd get to experience the games I'd wait for at higher fidelity and cheaper price.  For two to four years, sure.  Why not?  The industry will be slow to transition.  I expect the cross-generational period to take quite a while, especially with the Pro and X as options.

The ~$200 I'd lose in a trade in deal could be put towards something with less overlap, like a Switch successor.  Or maybe put in part towards a PC GPU, which could feasibly get much better RT bang for the buck than the next-gen consoles, per NVIDIA.  Allowing for a "mid-cycle refresh" before its here, without breaking the bank.

Anyone else share similar sentiments?  Disagree wholeheartedly?  I'm more skeptical than ever about the new consoles.

[AbsolutSurgen]

I'll get PS5 at launch (if LoU2 or other similar exclusive comes out).  I am console only for exclusives.

That said, I hope to get a 2180Ti next year too....

[best3444]

Na. I'll buy the launch consoles then buy the upgrades again like a fool.

[crispy4000]

7 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I'll get PS5 at launch (if LoU2 or other similar exclusive comes out).  I am console only for exclusives.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if LoU2 is cross-generational, like BoTW.  I'd still be perfectly fine playing it on my medium-grade Pro, if they're still having to target the baseline PS4.

Although Control makes me question what that even means anymore.

[AbsolutSurgen]

4 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

I wouldn't be surprised if LoU2 is cross-generational, like BoTW.  I'd still be perfectly fine playing it on my medium-grade Pro, if they're still having to target the baseline PS4.

Although Control makes me question what that even means anymore.

I expect it to be as well.  But, given I never bought a PS4Pro, the leap from base PS4 to base PS5 should be worth it for the Sony exclusives.  The only thing that will stop me is if Sony announces they are doing PC versions of their games.

 

TBH, I haven't seen a XB1X vs. RTX comparison yet -- but based on some of the impressions I've read, I REALLY want to play Control with Ray Tracing...

[Mr.Vic20]

I will need to have a PS5 launch unit just to play end of life PS4 games properly! 

[crispy4000]

14 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I expect it to be as well.  But, given I never bought a PS4Pro, the leap from base PS4 to base PS5 should be worth it for the Sony exclusives.  The only thing that will stop me is if Sony announces they are doing PC versions of their games.

 

TBH, I haven't seen a XB1X vs. RTX comparison yet -- but based on some of the impressions I've read, I REALLY want to play Control with Ray Tracing...

 

Can't be easily helped what upgrade schedule we're on.  You're on a Tick, I'm on a Tock.  I'd much rather be on a Tock, playing those exclusives in higher fidelity.  (especially those that aren't cross-gen)

For PC, I'm waiting to see how things settle after the consoles launch.  I'll probably build a new rig shortly after, unless the SSD stuff is so proprietary that it doesn't make sense to.

[SaysWho?]

I've not had much trouble with anything from my launch PS4.

[Pikachu]

I'm still on my launch PS4. The PS5 can't come soon enough. I am not willing to wait till 2023 for a new console.

[Bloodporne]

I've always bought consoles maybe two years or so after release but never considered this aspect, it's always been out of disinterest before a decent library of games builds up and the price drops.

[crispy4000]

9 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

I've not had much trouble with anything from my launch PS4.

 

Well, don't buy Control then.

[SaysWho?]

1 minute ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Well, don't buy Control then.

 

Eh. I know you've had reservations about mid-gen refreshes, but besides Last Guardian (which was playable since it wasn't a twitch shooter or something requiring quick reflexes), there hasn't been a game so bad that I couldn't play it or was doing worse. I don't encounter this enough to think that this will be a huge issue with launch consoles.

[JPDunks4]

I mean what would we expect from 2013 hardware using a cpu that was already semi outdated in 2013?  Isn’t this the norm for most gens?  End of gen cycle games tend to run like shit cause they are pushing the performance boundaries?

[JPDunks4]

13 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

I've not had much trouble with anything from my launch PS4.

You don’t have a Pro?

[SaysWho?]

Just now, JPDunks4 said:

I mean what would we expect from 2013 hardware using a cpu that was already semi outdated in 2013?  Isn’t this the norm for most gens?  End of gen cycle games tend to run like shit cause they are pushing the performance boundaries?

 

And I've yet to have anything along the lines of Perfect Dark at the end of the N64 generation that ran at 9fps in multiplayer.

[SaysWho?]

Just now, JPDunks4 said:

You don’t have a Pro?

 

Nah, never upgraded. And now I've no reason to with the PS5 next year.  

[JPDunks4]

Just now, SaysWho? said:

 

Nah, never upgraded. And now I've no reason to with the PS5 next year.  

Damn always assumed as big a fan of PS exclusives you woulda made the upgrade.  

[crispy4000]

Just now, SaysWho? said:

 

Eh. I know you've had reservations about mid-gen refreshes, but besides Last Guardian (which was playable since it wasn't a twitch shooter or something requiring quick reflexes), there hasn't been a game so bad that I couldn't play it or was doing worse. I don't encounter this enough to think that this will be a huge issue with launch consoles.

I see more as developers played nice (or tried to) when the Pro first launched.  What Control is doing here is much worse than Last Guardian on baseline PS4.
 

6 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

I've always bought consoles maybe two years or so after release but never considered this aspect, it's always been out of disinterest before a decent library of games builds up and the price drops.

I seldom do as well, because usually launch line-ups suck.  They have since the PS2/GC/Xbox/(DC) era.  This last gen in particular took a long time to get going.  The Wii U had a better line-up for a considerable time.

It's more just putting 2 and 2 together now.  If this is how things are going to be, I can wait.

[JPDunks4]

I have bee saving all the amazing Sony exclusives for the PS5.  Can’t wait.  

[Biggie]

59 minutes ago, best3444 said:

Na. I'll buy the launch consoles then buy the upgrades again like a fool.

                 

[SaysWho?]

1 minute ago, JPDunks4 said:

Damn always assumed as big a fan of PS exclusives you woulda made the upgrade.  

 

Oh yeah, and I get why it'd be a good upgrade, but I decided that I'd use the money toward other games and just save for the PS5.

[crispy4000]

7 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

I mean what would we expect from 2013 hardware using a cpu that was already semi outdated in 2013?  Isn’t this the norm for most gens?  End of gen cycle games tend to run like shit cause they are pushing the performance boundaries?

 

It depends on what the game is striving for: optimization vs fidelity.  Late-gen typically has a mix of both the best and worst running stuff.

It's been ages since sustained framerates in the 10's were acceptable though.  That's literally N64/PSX era stuff.

[JPDunks4]

Remedy hasn’t coded for PlayStation til now right?  Maybe that’s why the Xbox outperforms the PS.  They are more familiar with it after QB.

[crispy4000]

6 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

Remedy hasn’t coded for PlayStation til now right?  Maybe that’s why the Xbox outperforms the PS.  They are more familiar with it after QB.

 

The One S isn't really doing much better here at 720p.  And that's not even a launch unit with a slower CPU.

 

It's all been left behind.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

Eh, it depends on what games release at or around launch. PS4 was pretty unimpressive and though I waited months, I should have waited a couple years. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 hour ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Can't be easily helped what upgrade schedule we're on.  You're on a Tick, I'm on a Tock.  I'd much rather be on a Tock, playing those exclusives in higher fidelity.  (especially those that aren't cross-gen)

For PC, I'm waiting to see how things settle after the consoles launch.  I'll probably build a new rig shortly after, unless the SSD stuff is so proprietary that it doesn't make sense to.

If you're on the "tock" you miss out on playing the exclusives entirely for several years.  I am not convinced that the Tick/Tock cadence we saw this gen will continue into the future.  I can see MS moving to a "continuous" upgrade, and Sony doing a Tick/Tock/Tock etc.

[Zaku3]

7 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

If you're on the "tock" you miss out on playing the exclusives entirely for several years.  I am not convinced that the Tick/Tock cadence we saw this gen will continue into the future.  I can see MS moving to a "continuous" upgrade, and Sony doing a Tick/Tock/Tock etc.

There are so many games out. It wouldn't be a problem. 

 

I am skipping next gen. PC and a Switch are all I need.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

12 minutes ago, Zaku3 said:

There are so many games out. It wouldn't be a problem. 

 

I am skipping next gen. PC and a Switch are all I need.

You're right on that. My backlog is huge, even more so because I haven't been playing games lately. There's no shortage of awesome stuff to play.

[Mr.Vic20]

1 hour ago, SaysWho? said:

I've not had much trouble with anything from my launch PS4.

LIES!!! 

[Xbob42]

Was that dumpster fire of performance supposed to convince me that the refreshes were significantly better? Every single console on display dropped to at least 20. In a fucking action game. What the fuck.

[Zaku3]

16 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

Was that dumpster fire of performance supposed to convince me that the refreshes were significantly better? Every single console on display dropped to at least 20. In a fucking action game. What the fuck.

That cinematic feel. 

 

Ahhh i was wondering why I was skipping on this game. It's an Epic store exclusive.

 

 

[Brick]

I will wait for a PS5 Pro. There will be plenty of PS4 games in my backlog to catch up on, and any good third party games I will just get on PC. 

[Dodger]

 

I'll just get both since when I do the math, I spend over 1000 hours a year gaming, so dropping $500 every 3 years still ends being a good ROI. Also, next gen CPU's should be pretty good instead of the already outdated crap day 1 we got last gen, so we should be in for a good performance upgrade this gen.

 

People are weird when it comes to video games. Last time I went to fucking Olive Garden I dropped $60 on a dinner for two and that was without any alcohol. Yet people routinely balk at $60 for a video game that could give them dozens of hours of entertainment. But will drop twice that much on date night dinner that will last maybe 2 hours. Dropped $40 for 2 last time I went to the theater for again 2 hours of entertainment. 

 

Spent $30 on Fell Seal beginning of the month, literally haven't played anything else since. I definitely got more value there than my last night out. 

[TheLeon]

This is why I’m going Stadia next gen.

 

...he said, only half joking. 

[TwinIon]

Historically, the "base" models of consoles have always dramatically outsold the mid-cycle upgrades and therefore remain the default development targets long after they've been "replaced." Things have obviously changed a bit, but I think that will hold true for the PS5/Xbox Whatever era.

 

I don't think that Control's performance issues is particularly indicative of a larger shift of how devs approach the various platforms. It gets hiccups on every platform, and from what I watched fo that video, only the One X seemed even remotely stable. Even then, it was really only the frame rate that seemed to change. Other visual elements remained consistent across platforms. So they clearly weren't targeting the One X and then lowering things for other platforms. 

 

If you buy a PS5 or the equivalent Xbox, you'll almost certainly see a far greater leap in performance than what we saw with the One X or the PS4 Pro. Ray tracing will probably make something of an impact, and the SSDs will greatly decrease load times.

 

In the end, if you only wanted to buy one console per generation, and you could buy either the launch one or the mid-cycle refreshes, I think you'd probably be better off with the launch consoles. They typically have, and likely will continue to have, a longer lifespan at the top of the heap, and will certainly live longer as the default development platform. In addition to graphics, full gen cycles tend to introduce other new bits, like new controllers, and capabilities. There will always be a better thing just over the horizon, but I think launch consoles remain a pretty good bet for how long they'll remain relevant.