Spawn_of_Apathy Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 14 hours ago, johnny said: are they going to give redeemed kylo a fucking line of dialogue? lmao He had his conversation with his memory of Han. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 11 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said: Or how in the hell Maz got Vader's light saber. Apparently it is in the ROS visual dictionary. Some miners found it. Maz bought it off them. nothing exciting at all. Like the minimum amount of effort went into that background info. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: He had his conversation with his memory of Han. They'll throw in a line before he jumps. "There is no way a person could survive this fall. But through the power of the force, and my light-side ability, I will do my best." Also they will insert a Sith Trooper riding a red dewback in the background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 17 hours ago, johnny said: are they going to give redeemed kylo a fucking line of dialogue? lmao Ow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Which piece of music in the OST is the Sky lightning part? Can't figure it out. I like that piece. I was disappointed for Episode 3 when a great part of Anakin's Dark Deeds was NOT on the actual soundtrack. 2 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: Apparently it is in the ROS visual dictionary. Some miners found it. Maz bought it off them. nothing exciting at all. Like the minimum amount of effort went into that background info. lol Glad JJ mystery boxed that shit because it could have been explained easy-peasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: Apparently it is in the ROS visual dictionary. Some miners found it. Maz bought it off them. nothing exciting at all. Like the minimum amount of effort went into that background info. lol Yet another example of JJ setting up another pointless mystery box, where in response to Han asking her where she found it, she could have just said, "bought it off some miners working in the core of Bespin", but no, JJ had to set up a mystery box he had no intention of solving because he was only supposed to do the first movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I know JJ can help himself, he didn’t use mystery boxes in Star Trek. Don’t know why he seems to have to do it every other movie and tv show. I feel like this trilogy needed the Visual Dictionary more than ROS itself to close out the story. Geez. I wonder if the entire thing would have felt more cohesive, more complete, had JJ directed the entire thing. Seems TLJ should have been directed by JJ, or ROS should have been directed by Rian Johnson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: I know JJ can help himself, he didn’t use mystery boxes in Star Trek. Don’t know why he seems to have to do it every other movie and tv show. I feel like this trilogy needed the Visual Dictionary more than ROS itself to close out the story. Geez. I wonder if the entire thing would have felt more cohesive, more complete, had JJ directed the entire thing. Seems TLJ should have been directed by JJ, or ROS should have been directed by Rian Johnson. I think it could have been plenty of cohesive as it was had JJ not taken every online fan theory and put it into the final movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 8 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: He had his conversation with his memory of Han. he wasnt redeemed until the convo ended and he chucked his saber. some would say he wasnt redeemed until he helped rey. still no lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I still laugh that Kylo Ren’s big redemption moment in the movie is him pretending his Dad came up and forgave him for being literally the worst person in the galaxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, sblfilms said: I still laugh that Kylo Ren’s big redemption moment in the movie is him pretending his Dad came up and forgave him for being literally the worst person in the galaxy. Which Han was easily ready to forgive him and take him back to Leia in TFA. The scene in ROS was his “re-do” to do it right. His image of Han said it, Kylo Ren is dead, his son Ben is alive. he may not have been “redeemed” in the sense that all crimes are forgiven, but he had already come back to the light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: Which Han was easily ready to forgive him and take him back to Leia in TFA. The scene in ROS was his “re-do” to do it right. His image of Han said it, Kylo Ren is dead, his son Ben is alive. he may not have been “redeemed” in the sense that all crimes are forgiven, but he had already come back to the light. He came back to the light in a series of events that make no narrative or emotional sense. It was just something that needed to happen for other things to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, sblfilms said: He came back to the light in a series of events that make no narrative or emotional sense. It was just something that needed to happen for other things to happen. I didn’t think so. Maybe I’m reading more into than what was there but even on a first viewing it’s read to me as Kylo believed he had done too many bad things to return home. That his mother would not take him back. He even tried to convince Rey that her tilt to the dark side meant she couldn’t go back to Leia either. That the only thing Rey could do was just continue her path on the Dark Side with him. then he heard his mom and felt her love and instantly realized she still loved him. He was never too gone for her. Letting go of his anger and resentment, he let go of the dark side. He felt he could be Ben again, and so he became Ben again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 The whole redeeming Ben seems to contract what I felt in The Last Jedi was a set up that there would be no redemption. He's truly become Kylo Ren, and given himself to the Dark Side, and earlier in the movie when he hesitates firing on Leia wouldn't happen again; next time he'd kill her without a moments notice. Even Leia admits to Luke that she knows her son is gone. That's what I took away from the movie anyway. Not to say IX couldn't have still redeemed him, but they'd have to do it well, and I'm not so sure Rise of Skywalker did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 On 1/9/2020 at 1:34 PM, CitizenVectron said: I hope the longer cut is just a 7-minute discussion between Resistance members as to why the Holdo maneuver is something that won't work regularly, interspersed with long shots of the guy from Lost interrupting Rose. They should just splice in Holiday Special footage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 34 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: I didn’t think so. Maybe I’m reading more into than what was there but even on a first viewing it’s read to me as Kylo believed he had done too many bad things to return home. That his mother would not take him back. He even tried to convince Rey that her tilt to the dark side meant she couldn’t go back to Leia either. That the only thing Rey could do was just continue her path on the Dark Side with him. then he heard his mom and felt her love and instantly realized she still loved him. He was never too gone for her. Letting go of his anger and resentment, he let go of the dark side. He felt he could be Ben again, and so he became Ben again. Kylo Ren is irredeemable by this point though. He's murdered hundreds of people and families across the galaxy (he does it literally in the opening to TROS). No amount of reconciliation with himself or his parents takes that away - he should be tried for war crimes and sent to prison for the rest of his life. "But I went back to the light side of the force, I'm Ben Solo now, not Kylo Ren, I swear!" can't possibly be a defense. The Last Jedi understood this, and let Kylo continue down the dark path (because, by the end of TFA, there was no redeeming Kylo anyway) and was clearly set up as the main villain for the third installment, given Snoke had been killed. Alternate take: once Kylo Ren "becomes" Ben Solo again, he speaks no lines and dies. They clearly didn't give a fuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, Brick said: The whole redeeming Ben seems to contract what I felt in The Last Jedi was a set up that there would be no redemption. He's truly become Kylo Ren, and given himself to the Dark Side, and earlier in the movie when he hesitates firing on Leia wouldn't happen again; next time he'd kill her without a moments notice. Even Leia admits to Luke that she knows her son is gone. That's what I took away from the movie anyway. Not to say IX couldn't have still redeemed him, but they'd have to do it well, and I'm not so sure Rise of Skywalker did. I would have preferred and unredeemable Kylo. The only reason I could say that he wasn’t, was he never really became a Sith, or more accurately he never fully embraced the Dark Side. It has been cannon for a while that when a person fully embraces the dark side and draws upon its power the first physical change to their body is the “Sith eyes” like Vader in ROTS, Count Dooku, Palpatine, the Inquisitors in Rebels. I recall it being mentioned that he felt abandoned by Han and Leia for sending him away to Luke. He still felt that, even if he could not bring himself to kill her. But when he felt Leia reach out he then knew he was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 DP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 4 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: I didn’t think so. Maybe I’m reading more into than what was there but even on a first viewing it’s read to me as Kylo believed he had done too many bad things to return home. That his mother would not take him back. He even tried to convince Rey that her tilt to the dark side meant she couldn’t go back to Leia either. That the only thing Rey could do was just continue her path on the Dark Side with him. then he heard his mom and felt her love and instantly realized she still loved him. He was never too gone for her. Letting go of his anger and resentment, he let go of the dark side. He felt he could be Ben again, and so he became Ben again. Right... he knew his mother was in that base and had no qualms about murdering everyone in there. The Last Jedi definitely set HIM up to be the big bad in the next movie and even if he could still be redeemed, that would have come much later in the film. Rian set it up that the primary conflict would be between Rey and Kylo. Also I'm pretty sure it was implied that she "shut" her connection with him off at the end of the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said: DP. How do you have a 4 hour lag on a DP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 19 minutes ago, Jason said: How do you have a 4 hour lag on a DP? Maybe not the “DP” you think it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 34 minutes ago, Jason said: How do you have a 4 hour lag on a DP? It's a cover up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Chris Terrio still copping pleas... Quote Rian sort of set up a challenge not only for the filmmakers, but for the characters. At the end, everyone is left with almost nothing. So as a storyteller, you have to start using all your tools because you're left with a lot of questions and not a whole of answers. So we had to recommit to a few aspects of the story and perhaps be a bit more inventive about what was going on in the galaxy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Honestly I'm thinking Argo was a fluke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercury33 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Lol yeah he left sort of a blank slate but also left pretty fucking clear themes and potential arcs to follow up on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 47 minutes ago, Mercury33 said: Lol yeah he left sort of a blank slate but also left pretty fucking clear themes and potential arcs to follow up on. Exactly! He left no cliffhangars, but he left two major plot threads to be followed (FO still in charge/rebellion needs to grow, and Rey/Ben emotional dynamic that needs to be resolved) and he also left incredible character motivations to build on. Like, I get the feeling that JJ especially (and maybe Terrio) only see "plots" as twists and reveals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Terrio is defending this way too much so you know he deserves blame for this shit show. If he kept his mouth shut more would give him a pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 1 hour ago, johnny said: Terrio is defending this way too much so you know he deserves blame for this shit show. If he kept his mouth shut more would give him a pass. He definitely deserves blame, but JJ has an equal co-writing credit with Chris Terrio and JJ directed it. So . . . JJ deserves far more blame, I imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 3 hours ago, CitizenVectron said: Like, I get the feeling that JJ especially (and maybe Terrio) only see "plots" as twists and reveals. This is clearly true of JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 5 hours ago, CitizenVectron said: Like, I get the feeling that JJ especially (and maybe Terrio) only see "plots" as twists and reveals. I'm pretty sure you just described JJ's whole writing philosophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 On 1/10/2020 at 7:55 AM, Spawn_of_Apathy said: Apparently it is in the ROS visual dictionary. Some miners found it. Maz bought it off them. On 1/10/2020 at 11:12 AM, Brick said: Yet another example of JJ setting up another pointless mystery box, where in response to Han asking her where she found it, she could have just said, "bought it off some miners working in the core of Bespin", but no, JJ had to set up a mystery box he had no intention of solving because he was only supposed to do the first movie. That explanation is NOT in the RoS Visual Dictionary at all. The only thing the RoS Visual Dictionary says about the Skywalker lightsaber is that "Maz promises to someday tell the story of how she acquired it." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneticBlueprint Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 2 hours ago, SFLUFAN said: That explanation is NOT in the RoS Visual Dictionary at all. The only thing the RoS Visual Dictionary says about the Skywalker lightsaber is that "Maz promises to someday tell the story of how she acquired it." PoochieHomePlanet.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 2 hours ago, SFLUFAN said: That explanation is NOT in the RoS Visual Dictionary at all. The only thing the RoS Visual Dictionary says about the Skywalker lightsaber is that "Maz promises to someday tell the story of how she acquired it." Welp, time to make a trip to the library and find out for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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