Gavin Newsom grants reprieve to all 737 California inmates on death row

[CitizenVectron]

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article227489844.html

 

 

[mclumber1]

Boeing 737 crashes

California stops the death penalty of 737 convicts

 

7 + 3 +7 = 17

 

The seventeenth letter of the alphabet? 

Q

[Slug]

Good.  The older I get the more I find myself against the death penalty in general.

[CitizenVectron]

42 minutes ago, Slug said:

Good.  The older I get the more I find myself against the death penalty in general.

 

I am of the belief that some people deserve to die for their crimes, but I also don't trust society to determine who those people are.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

5 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

I am of the belief that some people deserve to die for their crimes, but I also don't trust society to determine who those people are.

That's where I've been for the past several years. 

[Jason]

9 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

I am of the belief that some people deserve to die for their crimes, but I also don't trust society to determine who those people are.

 

Just make sure the death sentence can only be handed out by totally impartial judges like Ellis and it'll be fine. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

18 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

I am of the belief that some people deserve to die for their crimes, but I also don't trust society to determine who those people are.

I am absolutely right there with you.

 

I support the death penalty in theory, but the actual practice of it leaves far too much to be desired.

[mclumber1]

Is the death penalty cruel?  Or is spending the rest of your life in prison more cruel?  I guess it would depend on the convicted person and other circumstances - but life in prison in solitary seems to worse than death.  

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

2 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

Is the death penalty cruel?  Or is spending the rest of your life in prison more cruel?  I guess it would depend on the convicted person and other circumstances - but life in prison in solitary seems to worse than death.  

"Cruelty" should really have no bearing on it.

 

The only thing the matters is that one is reversible if a mistake is discovered, the other is not.

[mclumber1]

3 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

"Cruelty" should really have no bearing on it.

 

The only thing the matters is that one is reversible if a mistake is discovered, the other is not.

 

Except when the wrongly convicted die in prison.

[RedSoxFan9]

The people who deserve to die won’t even face charges

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

4 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

 

Except when the wrongly convicted die in prison.

Far less of a moral tragedy than a wrongful execution.

[CitizenVectron]

Let's just replace death sentences with 10 years in the iso-cube, Dredd style, or the Phantom Zone. Or even better, in the ice prison from Demolition Man.

[mclumber1]

1 minute ago, CitizenVectron said:

Let's just replace death sentences with 10 years in the iso-cube, Dredd style, or the Phantom Zone. Or even better, in the ice prison from Demolition Man.

 

Will they learn knitting or heavy weapons handling while they are frozen? We should be careful about this!

[Ghost_MH]

6 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

Let's just replace death sentences with 10 years in the iso-cube, Dredd style, or the Phantom Zone. Or even better, in the ice prison from Demolition Man.

 

Saying criminals should be teleported to the future doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

[Anathema-]

YES they deserved to die and I hope they burn in HELL

[Jason]

19 minutes ago, Anathema- said:

YES they deserved to die and I hope they burn in HELL

 

Big gubbmint is super incompetent, except when it comes to figuring out who's a sinner who deserves to die!

[Boyle5150]

I’m not a fan of people “deserving” anything.  “Luck” in any and all forms, is not self orchestrated.  

Thats not to say that there shouldn’t be consequences for actions, but rather a greater understanding of why the actions were set in motion in the first place.  

 

@Rev

@legend

[legend]

18 minutes ago, Boyle5150 said:

I’m not a fan of people “deserving” anything.  “Luck” in any and all forms, is not self orchestrated.  

Thats not to say that there shouldn’t be consequences for actions, but rather a greater understanding of why the actions were set in motion in the first place.  

 

@Rev

@legend

 

Heh. Yep. If all someone means by "deserve" is to not punish would yield less desirable future outcomes, then that's fine. But feeling like someone deserves some treatment independent of future consequences is a broken idea.

[johnny]

Good. 

[CitizenVectron]

2 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Saying criminals should be teleported to the future doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

 

Then let's make it the past!

[Boyle5150]

1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Then let's make it the past!

Honestly, the farther we evolve into the future, the better we will be able to treat mental shortcomings.  To want to send people to the past, would be nothing less than evil.  

[Jason]

 

[Greatoneshere]

15 hours ago, legend said:

 

Heh. Yep. If all someone means by "deserve" is to not punish would yield less desirable future outcomes, then that's fine. But feeling like someone deserves some treatment independent of future consequences is a broken idea.

 

Sometimes actions can be heinous enough to "deserve" punitive measures merely as a means of recourse and justice both on the perpetrator themselves and to chill the effect of future potential perpetrators to commit the same crime; and you would do all this without caring about the future consequences otherwise to/on the original individual perpetrator and it still has an effect on the future. In real life, even punitive measures alone (though I am against the death penalty) will by default have potential future consequences because nothing happens in a vacuum, unless I misunderstand you (which is possible!). 

[Bloodporne]

I feel like I should be the counter-weight and throw out public flogging as an alternative just because.

[Slug]

I think the death penalty is purely vengeance.  It's some sense of "justice" for the victim.  I don't think it makes us safer.  I don't think that the existence of the death penalty has any real effect on the rate of future capital crimes.  I mean, people will drive safer to avoid tickets, or make sure they card the kid trying to buy beer so they don't get fined.  But once you reach crimes that carry the death penalty?  I'm not sure many killers are carefully considering the potential consequences before hacking up their neighbor and stuffing them in a Hefty bag.  Once someone has crossed the border into Murdertown they're way past making pro/con charts on their whiteboard.  "I was going to shoot my ex-wife, but then I heard about that guy in St. Paul that got the death penalty so I went out for pierogies instead" is a conversation that has never happened.

[Firewithin]

44 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

I feel like I should be the counter-weight and throw out public flogging as an alternative just because.

truly the time to bring back the good ole fashion

 

[legend]

1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Sometimes actions can be heinous enough to "deserve" punitive measures merely as a means of recourse and justice both on the perpetrator themselves and to chill the effect of future potential perpetrators to commit the same crime; and you would do all this without caring about the future consequences otherwise to/on the original individual perpetrator and it still has an effect on the future. In real life, even punitive measures alone (though I am against the death penalty) will by default have potential future consequences because nothing happens in a vacuum, unless I misunderstand you (which is possible!). 

 

I don't mean future consequences to the perpetrator. I mean future consequences period. And if the reasoning is it reduces the likelihood of future perpetrators, that is a future outcome and the support of the policy hinges on whether evidence indicates that's an actual impact and to what degree.

 

Many people, however, think past actions are deserving of punishment, consequences be damned (or maybe not to be damned, but even if there is no positive future impact). And that is to what I object.

[Bloodporne]

47 minutes ago, Slug said:

I think the death penalty is purely vengeance.  It's some sense of "justice" for the victim. 

That's the part I can actually get behind completely. 

 

The unreliable juries, racial bias and other procedural problems are the actual issues for me, in theory I'm all for it. 

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, legend said:

 

I don't mean future consequences to the perpetrator. I mean future consequences period. And if the reasoning is it reduces the likelihood of future perpetrators, that is a future outcome and the support of the policy hinges on whether evidence indicates that's an actual impact and to what degree.

 

Many people, however, think past actions are deserving of punishment, consequences be damned (or maybe not to be damned, but even if there is no positive future impact). And that is to what I object.

 

I follow you then.