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Signifyin(g)Monkey

Feds charge dozens in massive college admissions scandal

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All i took out of this was there are only so many buildings you can buy a college so just outright paying to get your kid in seems like the logical next step, or that slightly less rich people can't afford buildings.

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I have a thread in entertainment for the entertainment side of it (deserves a second thread here, so kudos), so sorry for the double post.

 

 

 

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Is getting into a particular school that important?  I mean, I know I hear that it is, but I just don't understand why. 

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1 minute ago, mclumber1 said:

Is getting into a particular school that important?  I mean, I know I hear that it is, but I just don't understand why. 

 

From my experience, I went to UF, and it has one of the best journalism schools in the nation. If you apply for a job and the news director sees that you came from there, that means something.

 

So yes unless you have a different meaning.

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1 hour ago, PaladinSolo said:

All i took out of this was there are only so many buildings you can buy a college so just outright paying to get your kid in seems like the logical next step, or that slightly less rich people can't afford buildings.

I mean there was also a big element of outright fraud in addition to bribery.

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Just now, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

I mean there was also a big element of outright fraud in addition to bribery.

Right, but the donations are bribes anyways.  I mean these schools aren't filled with rich kids cause they're all super smart. 

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4 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

Is getting into a particular school that important?  I mean, I know I hear that it is, but I just don't understand why. 

Going to Harvard or Yale gets you Very Serious Person credentials

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1 minute ago, PaladinSolo said:

Right, but the donations are bribes anyways.  I mean these schools aren't filled with rich kids cause they're all super smart. 

That is absolutely true. Which is why when some white dude starts ranting about "meritocracy" it's worth remembering things like this.

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1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Going to Harvard or Yale gets you Very Serious Person credentials

 

I guess I don't doubt that.  I just question the need (but not the want) for most people to go to these types of schools.  A vast majority of the people who go to "normal" colleges will find successful careers after they graduate if they do well in school.  

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Just now, mclumber1 said:

 

I guess I don't doubt that.  I just question the need (but not the want) for most people to go to these types of schools.  A vast majority of the people who go to "normal" colleges will find successful careers after they graduate if they do well in school.  

It's the network you buy with that degree. Start naming Yale or Harvard alums. You can do it without trying. Now start listing the alumns of the University of Michigan (a great public school, and harder if you don't include sports figures)

 

That's what you get with an ivy. It's also a signaling device, and probably gets your resume a second look at more "desired" or name brand employers and maybe even a pay bump from others. It opens doors that generally aren't available otherwise.

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This is news? What about all the other people who cheated their way in? I want to see the real cheats go down not some low level Hollywood pawns. Give me bankers, investors, politicians! Give me some Sons of the American Revolution members!

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51 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

 

I guess I don't doubt that.  I just question the need (but not the want) for most people to go to these types of schools.  A vast majority of the people who go to "normal" colleges will find successful careers after they graduate if they do well in school.  

It very much depends on the industry--in many cases degrees from these schools give you immediate advantages over other candidates in job searches, and for big name-brand companies who have 'the pick of the litter' they often mean the difference between getting in over a competitor who is equally qualified in terms of actual skill and work experience.

 

Interestingly enough, I find that people I know that work in software and web services are surprised by this, because IT is one of those industries that for the most part is quite the opposite and pays very little attention to education--it's all about your portfolio,  possessing the right skills, and work experience.  No one really cares where you went to school if you've got a kick-ass web/desktop/whatever app to your name.

 

My IT friends often think that that's the case for every industry--but it's not, even if it should be.  And, as someone mentioned before, much of a job search in any industry ends up boiling down to who you know anyway--and there are some very rich and influential people you can get to know at the ivies that you don't have access to at University of [Insert State].

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IT, or at least software engineering, has a HUGE draw for Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc from select universities like Stanford (and specifically the CS departments). You are right that it is much more dependent on what you've done, and what you can show you can do, but that is largely after you get your first job. Entry level can still be pretty brutal especially if you haven't gone to a "Target" school

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@mclumber1 I'm curious that you asked this. I thought it was common knowledge that getting into a certain school is important, but this is actually new to me that some people don't understand/realize the importance. What's your background, if you don't mind my asking?

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13 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

@mclumber1 I'm curious that you asked this. I thought it was common knowledge that getting into a certain school is important, but this is actually new to me that some people don't understand/realize the importance. What's your background, if you don't mind my asking?

 

AA degree from a community college, and then about a year of university.  I then did the navy for 10 years.  I'm thinking about finishing up my BS, but haven't pulled the trigger.  I work in the tech sector. 

 

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5 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

 

AA degree from a community college, and then about a year of university.  I then did the navy for 10 years.  I'm thinking about finishing up my BS, but haven't pulled the trigger.  I work in the tech sector. 

 

 

43 minutes ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said:

Interestingly enough, I find that people I know that work in software and web services are surprised by this, because IT is one of those industries that for the most part is quite the opposite and pays very little attention to education--it's all about your portfolio,  possessing the right skills, and work experience.  No one really cares where you went to school if you've got a kick-ass web/desktop/whatever app to your name.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

@mclumber1 I'm curious that you asked this. I thought it was common knowledge that getting into a certain school is important, but this is actually new to me that some people don't understand/realize the importance. What's your background, if you don't mind my asking?

TBH where you go to school is only important in a handful of fields (law?  medical?  I'm just guessing).  Outside of those it's largely meaningless.   For the most part It's merely having the degree at all that's important; the granting institution isn't unless you happen luck into an alum making hiring decisions (good) or the degree is from Obvious Degreefarm U (bad).

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8 minutes ago, Slug said:

TBH where you go to school is only important in a handful of fields (law?  medical?  I'm just guessing).  Outside of those it's largely meaningless.   For the most part It's merely having the degree at all that's important; the granting institution isn't unless you happen luck into an alum making hiring decisions (good) or the degree is from Obvious Degreefarm U (bad).

Management consulting. You sell clients that you’ve got the smartest people because x% is from the ivies for example 

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3 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Management consulting. You sell clients that you’ve got the smartest people because x% is from the ivies for example 

I can see that.  Fields where the image is marketable. 

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21 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

 

AA degree from a community college, and then about a year of university.  I then did the navy for 10 years.  I'm thinking about finishing up my BS, but haven't pulled the trigger.  I work in the tech sector. 

 

 

Okay, then yeah, that's quite a different background. This goes to the same point:

 

15 minutes ago, Slug said:

TBH where you go to school is only important in a handful of fields (law?  medical?  I'm just guessing).  Outside of those it's largely meaningless.   For the most part It's merely having the degree at all that's important; the granting institution isn't unless you happen luck into an alum making hiring decisions (good) or the degree is from Obvious Degreefarm U (bad).

 

Law, medical, journalism, meteorology, music, accounting, etc. etc. are also part of that.

 

Many schools specialize in this stuff. You have a meteorology degree from the University of Mississippi? Means a lot. You have a music education degree from Florida State University? Means a lot. You have a journalism or law degree from the University of Florida, or a journalism degree at Syracuse or Arizona State? Means a lot.

 

I could be mixing a few universities up, but many universities have amazing colleges that are nationally known and give you significantly more resources with which to work than someone at another school pursuing the same degree.

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33 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Okay, then yeah, that's quite a different background. This goes to the same point:

 

 

Law, medical, journalism, meteorology, music, accounting, etc. etc. are also part of that.

 

Many schools specialize in this stuff. You have a meteorology degree from the University of Mississippi? Means a lot. You have a music education degree from Florida State University? Means a lot. You have a journalism or law degree from the University of Florida, or a journalism degree at Syracuse or Arizona State? Means a lot.

 

I could be mixing a few universities up, but many universities have amazing colleges that are nationally known and give you significantly more resources with which to work than someone at another school pursuing the same degree.

 

I do think though that it's probably true that in a lot of fields, there's probably a huge boost from going to one or two specific programs, but that then after that it kind of doesn't matter where you go, with the other options not being BAD, just not the automatic door-openers the fancy programs are.

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I think people often misunderstand the point of going to an elite school. Yes, going to an elite school will make a difference on your resume (a bigger difference depending on the field), but largely it's a continuation of the structural element that those tweets @b_m_b_m_b_m posted talk about. Most of the kids going to a top school are already wealthy, and they're disproportionately likely to be successful in the future. You're going to a top school to be part of that club. You make connections, directly with your classmates, and indirectly through the alumni associations, that can have huge benefits in any field.

 

It's an extreme example, but no one that I know that went to business school was concerned about the quality of the education they would be getting. They weren't looking at Penn or Stanford or Duke as offering educations far above dozens of different schools, they were solely concerned with the connections to be made there.

 

All that said, I'm glad that they both caught these people that were outright bribing their kid's way into schools and I'm glad that it's bringing up a larger conversation about college admissions.

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49 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

I do think though that it's probably true that in a lot of fields, there's probably a huge boost from going to one or two specific programs, but that then after that it kind of doesn't matter where you go, with the other options not being BAD, just not the automatic door-openers the fancy programs are.

 

:thinking: I'm not following this. What do you mean "after that?"

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Just now, SaysWho? said:

 

:thinking: I'm not following this. What do you mean "after that?"

 

The selection of schools excluding the really fancy ones you didn't get into. 

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I’m still laughing about Aunt Becky paying $500k to get her daughters into USC.

 

 

As to the direction the topic has gone, from everything that I have read, where you went to school matters most on getting your first job. Buuuuut, your first job often has significant implications on future earning potential because where you start has a lot to do with where you finish.

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1 minute ago, Jason said:

 

The selection of schools excluding the really fancy ones you didn't get into. 

 

You don't need to go into a fancy school (I'm assuming you mean Ivy League) to get into a program with prestige, if that's what you're saying. Lori Loughlin paid half a million to get her daughter into USC, for example.

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16 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

I’m still laughing about Aunt Becky paying $500k to get her daughters into USC.

 

 

As to the direction the topic has gone, from everything that I have read, where you went to school matters most on getting your first job. Buuuuut, your first job often has significant implications on future earning potential because where you start has a lot to do with where you finish.

 

Ding ding ding

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Saying 'fail son' or 'fail daughter' is worthy of a perma ban.

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