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Trump reportedly is joking about pulling the US military out of NATO, and no allies are laughing


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The conservatives who I know that reluctantly voted for Trump were hoping that everything was going to snap back to normal after he left office. Unfortunately there will be no going back. He may end up being the most consequential president in a long time when all is said and done.

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2 minutes ago, Komusha said:

The conservatives who I know that reluctantly voted for Trump were hoping that everything was going to snap back to normal after he left office. Unfortunately there will be no going back. He may end up being the most consequential president in a long time when all is said and done.

 

Yup. And he's having an in-person performance review with Putin on July 16. That's when we're gonna leave NATO isn't it. :/

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I feel like with every new story Trump is making the founding fathers look like real idiots? Really, the executive has the power to make this kind of decision unilaterally? Was it really a good idea to make the foundation of our legal system dependent on when a few old folks either die in office or get close to it? Is this really a system of checks and balances?

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14 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

I could've told you this several years ago if you'd asked :p

Yeah, but several years ago things were going ok and it seemed like more of a "maybe this isn't the best way for things to work" kinda deal. Not the "OMFG, who the hell thought this was a good idea?!" is is now.

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Here's the thing: There's spending money to be able to defend yourself, and there's spending enough money to be able to project your imperial power over the world. Most other countries don't need to spend that kind of money. Now, some countries in Europe should probably start beefing up their militaries at this point to counter Russian ambition, but some others probably don't need to. Even if NATO countries all boosted their spending to an arbitrary % amount of their GDPs, Trump would then flip to comparing the absolute numbers and complain that the Netherlands is only spending .5% as much as the US.

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4 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

Here's the thing: There's spending money to be able to defend yourself, and there's spending enough money to be able to project your imperial power over the world. Most other countries don't need to spend that kind of money. Now, some countries in Europe should probably start beefing up their militaries at this point to counter Russian ambition, but some others probably don't need to.

 

I do think Germany is legit freeloading on not just the US but NATO as a whole. The US could definitely afford to spend less than we do but it's still obnoxious to see Germans lecturing us about our spending priorities being out of whack and how their system is so much better when part of the way they afford their system is by letting other countries pay to defend them.

 

And to whatever extent Canada can be argued to be freeloading...I mean, you just have to look at a map to understand why that's simply not as a big of a deal as Germany doing it.

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19 hours ago, Jason said:

 

I do think Germany is legit freeloading on not just the US but NATO as a whole. The US could definitely afford to spend less than we do but it's still obnoxious to see Germans lecturing us about our spending priorities being out of whack and how their system is so much better when part of the way they afford their system is by letting other countries pay to defend them.

 

And to whatever extent Canada can be argued to be freeloading...I mean, you just have to look at a map to understand why that's simply not as a big of a deal as Germany doing it.

 

From my understanding though NATO allies pay proportionally respective to their GDP's, correct? Are any actually in debt to us over that? Are some not contributing proportionally to us but relative to their GDP?

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1 minute ago, Greatoneshere said:

From my understanding though NATO allies pay proportionally respective to their GDP's, correct? Are any actually in debt to us over that? Are some not contributing proportionally to us but relative to their GDP?

 

There's a 2% of GDP target that only 5 NATO countries are hitting.

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1 minute ago, Jason said:

 

There's a 2% of GDP target that only 5 NATO countries are hitting.

 

Link? Just out of curiosity, I'd like to see who is and isn't hitting the 2% target and how much less than the 2% target each are actually contributing. :) 

 

If all true, then I do agree that everyone should pay, but Trump is trying to get NATO allies to do that in the worst ways possible.

 

Bigliest negotiator eh? :p 

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7 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Link? Just out of curiosity, I'd like to see who is and isn't hitting the 2% target and how much less than the 2% target each are actually contributing. :) 

 

If all true, then I do agree that everyone should pay, but Trump is trying to get NATO allies to do that in the worst ways possible.

 

Bigliest negotiator eh? :p 

 

Read this: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/26/world/europe/nato-trump-spending.html

 

As they discuss, Trump isn't the first one to be concerned about it, Trump is just handling it the worst way possible (of course).

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The GDP thing is kinda silly, while Germany is spending like half of what its supposed to, its still 4th in overall military spending, while a country like Greece is hitting its requirement but is spending a fraction of what Germany is spending, and is still below Germany's per capita spending.  Its not crazy to ask Germany to spend more seeing they're one of the larger NATO nations, but its insane to threaten to abandon all of them if they don't.

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6 minutes ago, PaladinSolo said:

The GDP thing is kinda silly, while Germany is spending like half of what its supposed to, its still 4th in overall military spending, while a country like Greece is hitting its requirement but is spending a fraction of what Germany is spending, and is still below Germany's per capita spending.  Its not crazy to ask Germany to spend more seeing they're one of the larger NATO nations, but its insane to threaten to abandon all of them if they don't.

 

Well...

 

That said, the German military is in pretty rough shape in terms of readiness. 

 

 

 

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I honestly don't think it matters how much NATO members spend, unless one of them ramps up spending into the hundreds of billions a year, otherwise i just can't imagine a scenario where it works without the US spearheading the whole thing.  By the time article 5 is declared and agreed upon whoever declared the article 5 would be toast let alone mobilization of multiple European militaries.

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Quote

When German Chancellor Angela Merkel made her first visit to meet with President Donald Trump shortly after his inauguration, she was greeted with an unexpected accusation, The Wall Street Journal reported Sunday.'

 

“You owe me one trillion dollars,” Trump reportedly told her, according to an official briefed on the session who spoke with the Journal. Trump was reportedly referencing what he estimated as the gap between the amount of money Germany was supposed to spend on its own defense under the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) over the past 14 years, and what it’s actually paid for.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-merkel-owe-me-one-trillion-dollars

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McConnell says not worried about Trump withdrawing U.S. from NATO

 

Presently the entirety of the article:

 

Quote

The top Republican in the U.S. Senate, Mitch McConnell, on Wednesday said he was not worried that President Donald Trump will withdraw the country from NATO, as Trump, who has a history of fiercely criticizing and occasionally scrapping international agreements, traveled to a major summit of NATO members.

 

McConnell also said “there is nothing inherently wrong” about Trump meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin while he is in Europe. The two leaders plan to meet alone, without any extra staff.

 

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