PC Steam Deck OLED officially announced, update: "A beautiful display upgrade - and so much more" (Digital Foundry review)

[stepee]

I’m pretty sure I disagree with some of valve’s philosophy on handheld computers, or at least, theirs doesn’t quite match the way I like to play.

[best3444]

1 minute ago, stepee said:

I’m pretty sure I disagree with some of valve’s philosophy on handheld computers, or at least, theirs doesn’t quite match the way I like to play.

 

Thanks for getting me one for Christmas. I can lay in my bed and finally game. 

[TwinIon]

I'd pretty much given up on buying a Steam Deck, figuring I'd just wait for the next one, but this is probably enough of an update to get me to buy. If Valve is saying 1-2 years before an update, I'm betting on the over, so if this remains the default for 2 years, that's probably good enough for me.

[AbsolutSurgen]

4 minutes ago, stepee said:

I’m pretty sure I disagree with some of valve’s philosophy on handheld computers, or at least, theirs doesn’t quite match the way I like to play.

I've always viewed them as something I use while travelling (primarily in airports and hotels).  How do you use handhelds?

[stepee]

4 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I've always viewed them as something I use while travelling (primarily in airports and hotels).  How do you use handhelds?

 

I wrote an edit but I’ll respond with it here instead:

 

What I mean is things like being stubborn with letting you just yank power off the wall. Maybe you can’t run Starfield or Alan Wake 2 (or Ue5) well yet on raw battery power in an efficient handheld.

 

But the thing is, you can’t really pocket these things anyway. Battery life isn’t super important for me. I can put an external battery up to my ROG Ally and play current gen just fine, and if I’m taking one of these things out, it will be in a bag.  The external battery can just go in the same bag. If i’m at home, it makes no sense to run significantly worse to avoid plugging in a usbc cable in, of which I have everywhere.

 

So like yeah, I’ve been using mine here at the hotel and used it on my flight. But my flight has an ac outlet, I can use an external battery in the airport or find an AC there, and at my hotel I have AC outlets.

 

Valve thinks they are making it easier on me by not allowing me to draw power, but with their mindset, I don’t get to play Robocop in my hotel with just an easy to bring lightweight handheld like I have been.

[Paperclyp]

1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

That's at least "two or three years" away according to Steam Deck designer Lawrence Yang:

 

From today's Bloomberg article:

 

 

That sounds great to me, with the switch 2 coming next year and being like 70 percent sure I want that, I would be ready for something a little more diverse 2-3 years after that. 

[Reputator]

Sure is a lot of hype* for a slightly slimmer screen upgrade, like that hasn't been done in a handheld ever before.

 

*referring to much of the press

[stepee]

10 minutes ago, Reputator said:

Sure is a lot of hype* for a slightly slimmer screen upgrade, like that hasn't been done in a handheld ever before.

 

*referring to much of the press

 

I’m surprised also the press is SO positive. Like, there’s some nice improvement here for sure..but it’s kind of like they are treating it as if it didn’t need any major performance update…since Valve says they can’t do it yet. And it doesn’t need vrr..because Valve says they can’t do it yet. I’m assuming they are also fine with the 90hz because Valve said they couldn’t do 120 yet.

 

I mean I’m sure there’s some good reasons behind the choices here, and I have to remember the price here compared to say the Ally or Legion, but it does all seem quite generous.

[Reputator]

8 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

I’m surprised also the press is SO positive. Like, there’s some nice improvement here for sure..but it’s kind of like they are treating it as if it didn’t need any major performance update…since Valve says they can’t do it yet. And it doesn’t need vrr..because Valve says they can’t do it yet. I’m assuming they are also fine with the 90hz because Valve said they couldn’t do 120 yet.

 

I mean I’m sure there’s some good reasons behind the choices here, and I have to remember the price here compared to say the Ally or Legion, but it does all seem quite generous.

 

No variable refresh? Seriously?

 

That's just dumb.

[stepee]

2 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

No variable refresh? Seriously?

 

That's just dumb.

 

Likely due to whatever oled display they sourced not supporting it..which is an excuse, but it’s kind of on them to come up with the solutions here..and it not having vrr is still just a result of their decisions. Whenever Valve makes hardware statements I feel like the press takes that as if it’s gospel. Just like when they made it sound like they couldn’t do oled back in March and now here we are. 

[Reputator]

It uses an AMD GPU. AMD's VRR solution requires literally no additional hardware. It's derived from the origins of VRR in laptops used as a power saving feature, and that goes back more than a decade.

 

Inexcusable.

[AbsolutSurgen]

The Switch OLED can't do VRR, because of hardware limitations.  Rumours have SD using the same panel as Switch.  Valve probably doesn't have the volume to justify a custom panel.

[stepee]

4 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

The Switch OLED can't do VRR, because of hardware limitations.  Rumours have SD using the same panel as Switch.  Valve probably doesn't have the volume to justify a custom panel.

 

Switch is nvidia, so I don’t think that would take from rep’s point. And it could be using the same supplier and that supplier might not have had that ready. But I don’t see how with it being a different size display that is hdr capable with different brightness levels and dynamic range coverage that it would be the same panel.

[Brian]

I hope this puts pressure on the other handheld manufacturers to use OLED

[Massdriver]

Variable refresh is a must for me. I bought a Switch a couple years ago and it just collects dust. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 hour ago, stepee said:

 

Switch is nvidia, so I don’t think that would take from rep’s point. And it could be using the same supplier and that supplier might not have had that ready. But I don’t see how with it being a different size display that is hdr capable with different brightness levels and dynamic range coverage that it would be the same panel.

I am confused.  The GPU will work with VRR (Steam Deck support VRR does with an external display).  The OLED display uses a MIPI interface (which doesn't support VRR) like the Switch, if they used an EDP interface the panel could probably support VRR.

[stepee]

18 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I am confused.  The GPU will work with VRR (Steam Deck support VRR does with an external display).  The OLED display uses a MIPI interface (which doesn't support VRR) like the Switch, if they used an EDP interface the panel could probably support VRR.

 

Im not sure the actual specifics (not sure if anyone knows yet). I didn’t know about the interface being the deciding factor, but either way I don’t think its the same panel (size, hdr, etc) as the switch and that I don’t think they have some kind of iron-clad “this is just impossible” excuse for not having it. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

16 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

Im not sure the actual specifics (not sure if anyone knows yet). I didn’t know about the interface being the deciding factor, but either way I don’t think its the same panel (size, hdr, etc) as the switch and that I don’t think they have some kind of iron-clad “this is just impossible” excuse for not having it. 

Valve told LTT the reason it didn't have VRR was because the display had a MIDI interface, and that MIDI interfaces don't support VRR.  Nothing is impossible if you are willing to pay the panel manufacturer extra $$$ to develop/customize something that is different than they are offering you.

[stepee]

1 minute ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Valve told LTT the reason it didn't have VRR was because the display had a MIDI interface, and that MIDI interfaces don't support VRR.  Nothing is impossible if you are willing to pay the panel manufacturer extra $$$ to develop/customize something that is different than they are offering you.

 

Exactly, which is why I don’t give them a pass :P

[stepee]

Don’t get me wrong, I still might get it! For anything I can lock to 60/90fps without issue when streaming from my pc, it’ll probably be the best handheld way to play it assuming moonlight gets hdr in the linux app.

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 minute ago, stepee said:

 

Exactly, which is why I don’t give them a pass :P

That probably would have meant either a delay or a higher price, or both. 

[stepee]

Just now, AbsolutSurgen said:

That probably would have meant either a delay or a higher price, or both. 

 

Definitely worth it! Vrr is such a game changer on a handheld.

[AbsolutSurgen]

Regardless, it’s a hardware constraint. 

[stepee]

Oh, I never meant as if it was some kind of software lock they are doing. I just mean, they made decisions based on factors that led them to not have vrr/more power/etc, and the press acts like they couldn’t do more so they don’t knock them for being behind in those areas as much just because Valve is like na we can’t do it. It’s just a pass that other hardware doesn’t seem to get, that’s all.

[Xbob42]

This seems laser focused to strike down every one of the main criticisms the general public has about the Steam Deck. OLED? Done. HDR? It's there. Bad wifi? Fixed. Battery life? Massively improved. Runs hot and loud? Now it's cooler and quieter.

 

It's good that they focused on these sensible and easily felt wins over trying to juice up the power so soon before there's even decent tech to do that to a degree that makes the upgrade worthwhile, catering to the people who want a Deck to play AAA titles at hotel rooms or whatever is exactly the wrong move and would massively increase the price, kill the battery life more (which, again, is a massive complaint from the average Steam Deck user, they absolutely do care!) and just not be very satisfying. It would also be a huge mistake with the Switch's sequel on the horizon. You don't want to make a half-step that is outdated the second Nintendo puts their new product out, as it makes it harder to justify buying a Deck.

 

No VRR is kind of a shame, but you need a baseline of at least 40 FPS to even begin to notice VRR, and the average person just wouldn't notice. VRR has never worked any kind of magic on me because it doesn't magically get rid of stutters or give a big stability bump like people seem to say -- it helps smooth things out a bit, but it's not a magic bullet I care about as much as either a nicer screen or just more raw power. If they can get it in there with software, great! But frankly the 90hz screen is a good one for me. Yeah you ain't playing Alan Wake 2 at 90FPS, but I play tons of games that could easily hit 90FPS on the Deck, so getting those above 60 will be great.

If they were to follow advice from this thread, they'd be led down a disastrous path where they're catering to ultra enthusiasts with tons of disposable income, whereas the Deck, believe it or not guys, it supposed to be a simple, relatively budget-friendly solution to handheld PC gaming. I get wanting more and better, but I think for a simple hardware revision this is excellent, and I'll happily pick one up.

[Dre801]

As someone who has never ever been into handhelds, even I kinda sorta want one.

[XxEvil AshxX]

I'm so tempted to get one. I have a pretty decent Steam library and the only time I really get to play them is when I'm sitting at my desk in front of my PC. But I rarely feel like sitting at my desk in front of my PC. If it's compatible with the dock they already have released for it and I can hook it up in the living room I'm totally down with that.

[AbsolutSurgen]

10 hours ago, stepee said:

Oh, I never meant as if it was some kind of software lock they are doing. I just mean, they made decisions based on factors that led them to not have vrr/more power/etc, and the press acts like they couldn’t do more so they don’t knock them for being behind in those areas as much just because Valve is like na we can’t do it. It’s just a pass that other hardware doesn’t seem to get, that’s all.

My original response was to the comment that AMD's VRR laterally required no additional hardware -- when according to Valve's engineers, it does. 

 

I think we're in agreement that they could do it if they changed the screen.

[Spork3245]

8 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

My original response was to the comment that AMD's VRR laterally required no additional hardware -- when according to Valve's engineers, it does. 

 

I think we're in agreement that they could do it if they changed the screen.

 

It requires hardware in the sense of the display.

[stepee]

5 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

This seems laser focused to strike down every one of the main criticisms the general public has about the Steam Deck. OLED? Done. HDR? It's there. Bad wifi? Fixed. Battery life? Massively improved. Runs hot and loud? Now it's cooler and quieter.

 

It's good that they focused on these sensible and easily felt wins over trying to juice up the power so soon before there's even decent tech to do that to a degree that makes the upgrade worthwhile, catering to the people who want a Deck to play AAA titles at hotel rooms or whatever is exactly the wrong move and would massively increase the price, kill the battery life more (which, again, is a massive complaint from the average Steam Deck user, they absolutely do care!) and just not be very satisfying. It would also be a huge mistake with the Switch's sequel on the horizon. You don't want to make a half-step that is outdated the second Nintendo puts their new product out, as it makes it harder to justify buying a Deck.

 

No VRR is kind of a shame, but you need a baseline of at least 40 FPS to even begin to notice VRR, and the average person just wouldn't notice. VRR has never worked any kind of magic on me because it doesn't magically get rid of stutters or give a big stability bump like people seem to say -- it helps smooth things out a bit, but it's not a magic bullet I care about as much as either a nicer screen or just more raw power. If they can get it in there with software, great! But frankly the 90hz screen is a good one for me. Yeah you ain't playing Alan Wake 2 at 90FPS, but I play tons of games that could easily hit 90FPS on the Deck, so getting those above 60 will be great.

If they were to follow advice from this thread, they'd be led down a disastrous path where they're catering to ultra enthusiasts with tons of disposable income, whereas the Deck, believe it or not guys, it supposed to be a simple, relatively budget-friendly solution to handheld PC gaming. I get wanting more and better, but I think for a simple hardware revision this is excellent, and I'll happily pick one up.

 

I hear ya, I hear ya. The one thing I’ll say is that vrr on a handheld of is definitely something that adds heavily to the simple/ease of use side of things as @Brian I think being primarily a console gamer can probably attest to. I simply fidget with games to get them running nicely a lot less since you don’t need to try to lock to that magic spot. That is the main reason. 
 

As far as ease of use that also is where if it at least had a 120hz screen then that would be nice, because with this with moonlight I’ll need to cap games at 90fps and then uncap them every time switching between desktop and handheld streaming - and then frame gen games get complicated.

 

But, I am definitely aware I’m very much on the ultra hardcore enthusiast side and that I have certain needs that are not overly popular. But, as you know, we are an enthusiast forum and this is what we do :P

 

It’s just that I’ve been saying for years now how much I wanted a 7” 120hz hdr vrr oled display on a handheld, even an android device I’d take for now at this point. So to come soooo damn close just to stop short is giving me major blue balls.

[Keyser_Soze]

1 minute ago, stepee said:

But, I am definitely aware I’m very much on the ultra hardcore enthusiast side and that I have certain needs that are not overly popular. But, as you know, we are an enthusiast forum and this is what we do :P

 

Basically @Zaku3 got you hooked and you've now taken the mantle from him.

[AbsolutSurgen]

44 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

I hear ya, I hear ya. The one thing I’ll say is that vrr on a handheld of is definitely something that adds heavily to the simple/ease of use side of things as @Brian I think being primarily a console gamer can probably attest to. I simply fidget with games to get them running nicely a lot less since you don’t need to try to lock to that magic spot. That is the main reason. 
 

As far as ease of use that also is where if it at least had a 120hz screen then that would be nice, because with this with moonlight I’ll need to cap games at 90fps and then uncap them every time switching between desktop and handheld streaming - and then frame gen games get complicated.

 

But, I am definitely aware I’m very much on the ultra hardcore enthusiast side and that I have certain needs that are not overly popular. But, as you know, we are an enthusiast forum and this is what we do :P

 

It’s just that I’ve been saying for years now how much I wanted a 7” 120hz hdr vrr oled display on a handheld, even an android device I’d take for now at this point. So to come soooo damn close just to stop short is giving me major blue balls.

I think I understand your perspective.

 

However, the APU on SD, while good for a handheld, is relatively week compared to what is required for new AAA games.  I hear more people talk about capping frame rates at 30fps to preserve battery, than I do about people trying to achieve 120fps on this thing.  To keep this thing ~$400, they can't do everything.

[stepee]

1 minute ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I think I understand your perspective.

 

However, the APU on SD, while good for a handheld, is relatively week compared to what is required for new AAA games.  I hear more people talk about capping frame rates at 30fps to preserve battery, than I do about people trying to achieve 120fps on this thing.  To keep this thing ~$400, they can't do everything.

 

But there is 30-50% more battery! :P Those floating 40s would be good, and indies of course. But yeah I get it.

[nublood]

7 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

This seems laser focused to strike down every one of the main criticisms the general public has about the Steam Deck. OLED? Done. HDR? It's there. Bad wifi? Fixed. Battery life? Massively improved. Runs hot and loud? Now it's cooler and quieter.

 

It's good that they focused on these sensible and easily felt wins over trying to juice up the power so soon before there's even decent tech to do that to a degree that makes the upgrade worthwhile, catering to the people who want a Deck to play AAA titles at hotel rooms or whatever is exactly the wrong move and would massively increase the price, kill the battery life more (which, again, is a massive complaint from the average Steam Deck user, they absolutely do care!) and just not be very satisfying. It would also be a huge mistake with the Switch's sequel on the horizon. You don't want to make a half-step that is outdated the second Nintendo puts their new product out, as it makes it harder to justify buying a Deck.

 

No VRR is kind of a shame, but you need a baseline of at least 40 FPS to even begin to notice VRR, and the average person just wouldn't notice. VRR has never worked any kind of magic on me because it doesn't magically get rid of stutters or give a big stability bump like people seem to say -- it helps smooth things out a bit, but it's not a magic bullet I care about as much as either a nicer screen or just more raw power. If they can get it in there with software, great! But frankly the 90hz screen is a good one for me. Yeah you ain't playing Alan Wake 2 at 90FPS, but I play tons of games that could easily hit 90FPS on the Deck, so getting those above 60 will be great.

If they were to follow advice from this thread, they'd be led down a disastrous path where they're catering to ultra enthusiasts with tons of disposable income, whereas the Deck, believe it or not guys, it supposed to be a simple, relatively budget-friendly solution to handheld PC gaming. I get wanting more and better, but I think for a simple hardware revision this is excellent, and I'll happily pick one up.

 

I was seriously about to just get the Steamdeck 64 for $399 (and add a 1TB card) despite this new version coming out. But those features you mentioned are making me backpedal. I just may splurge a bit and get the OLED version....if I can get one.

[legend]

7 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

This seems laser focused to strike down every one of the main criticisms the general public has about the Steam Deck. OLED? Done. HDR? It's there. Bad wifi? Fixed. Battery life? Massively improved. Runs hot and loud? Now it's cooler and quieter.

 

It's good that they focused on these sensible and easily felt wins over trying to juice up the power so soon before there's even decent tech to do that to a degree that makes the upgrade worthwhile, catering to the people who want a Deck to play AAA titles at hotel rooms or whatever is exactly the wrong move and would massively increase the price, kill the battery life more (which, again, is a massive complaint from the average Steam Deck user, they absolutely do care!) and just not be very satisfying. It would also be a huge mistake with the Switch's sequel on the horizon. You don't want to make a half-step that is outdated the second Nintendo puts their new product out, as it makes it harder to justify buying a Deck.

 

No VRR is kind of a shame, but you need a baseline of at least 40 FPS to even begin to notice VRR, and the average person just wouldn't notice. VRR has never worked any kind of magic on me because it doesn't magically get rid of stutters or give a big stability bump like people seem to say -- it helps smooth things out a bit, but it's not a magic bullet I care about as much as either a nicer screen or just more raw power. If they can get it in there with software, great! But frankly the 90hz screen is a good one for me. Yeah you ain't playing Alan Wake 2 at 90FPS, but I play tons of games that could easily hit 90FPS on the Deck, so getting those above 60 will be great.

If they were to follow advice from this thread, they'd be led down a disastrous path where they're catering to ultra enthusiasts with tons of disposable income, whereas the Deck, believe it or not guys, it supposed to be a simple, relatively budget-friendly solution to handheld PC gaming. I get wanting more and better, but I think for a simple hardware revision this is excellent, and I'll happily pick one up.

 

I think VRR in 40s is significantly better than the alternative of VSync dropping far lower or otherwise having tearing, but is still not great and I'd prefer to tune performance to be higher. But I *do* like VRR a lot when your baseline is >60.