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Starfield - Information Thread, update: May Update (detailed surface maps, difficulty options, display settings) to release on May 15

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Kal-El814

Kal-El814

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Posted

Look. I want Bethesda to get better. But they always increase the size of their canvas without figuring out better ways to fill the space. And this is despite games like Skyrim and the Fallouts having FEWER skills, options, etc., than older games. The combat will not be good, the NPCs will generally be uninteresting, and the stuff is only going to kind of barely come together.

 

This is just who they are. They have no incentive to change this stuff. They've released Skyrim one billion times and it's still this game:

 

I wonder if this guy's a vampire! You're not supposed to know he is, but ever since Dawnguard, vamps on the DL just... look like this and nobody notices!

 

HQ4mI5s.jpg

 

Who's more stupid, this guy for not realizing Maven is behind him, or Maven for not giving a shit at all?

 

34sl4IC.jpg

 

The spaceships look rad, the vibes look good, and some of the critter design is genuinely better than I'd expected!

 

But we know what we're going to get from BGS at this point, and good combat / interesting NPCs ain't on the menu.

 

 

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crispy4000

crispy4000

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19 hours ago, best3444 said:

The NPCs eyes are inexcusable with the technology they are using. It really is a distracting element that can ruin an experience. I'm pretty easy on stuff like this so I will live with it but Jesus they look creepy. 

 

Bosman leans in pretty hard on this on his "hot takes."  Says they should at least look Yakuza game good.

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Spawn_of_Apathy

Spawn_of_Apathy

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3 hours ago, Spork3245 said:
gfXav3VjYNNyQvuGEBvgyL-1200-80.jpg

Microsoft exec says Starfield has 'the fewest bugs any Bethesda game ever shipped with' | PC Gamer

WWW.PCGAMER.COM
A bold statement that the head of Xbox Studios will probably hear repeated back to him once or twice.


Unless they mean bug-type enemies/NPCs, I feel like this bar isn’t exactly high.


well now I’m more worried than I’ve ever been. 
 

 

also apparently it’s been confirmed this will be locked at 30fps on consoles

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best3444

best3444

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4 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Bosman leans in pretty hard on this on his "hot takes."  Says they should at least look Yakuza game good.

 

Yea, I watched his newest video. He was a bit harsh but overall was fair. The game has so much promise. I really hope it delivers because when Bethesda nails something, it's usually sensational. 

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Biggie

Biggie

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17 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

Yea, I watched his newest video. He was a bit harsh but overall was fair. The game has so much promise. I really hope it delivers because when Bethesda nails something, it's usually sensational. 

It better live up to the hype or the 7.5 billion they paid to acquire Bethesda is gonna sting a tad. 

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best3444

best3444

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1 hour ago, Biggie said:

It better live up to the hype or the 7.5 billion they paid to acquire Bethesda is gonna sting a tad. 

 

Lol, true. The studio itself looked beautiful in the new video. They are swimming in cash so it's definitely not going to be a budget issue if it fails. 

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Xbob42

Xbob42

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20 hours ago, unogueen said:

It's bethesda. The fact that some people are still bewildered they sell gangbusters is weird to see.

I'm bewildered at WHY they sell gangbusters. Every single element of their games is usually bottom tier trash except maybe KINDA world design, and anything they do even kind of good has been completely eclipsed since Skyrim's release. 

 

They do absolutely abysmal combat, boring and tedious traversal, middling voice acting, bottom of the barrel animation, hugely noninteractive worlds sans like... fucking stacking cheese or whatever, lame and uninteresting stories, generic characters, simplistic character builds, world class bad difficulty modifiers, barebones AI routine scheduling, hilariously bad dialog choices that don't mean anything, every single conversation is framed in the exact same embarrassingly simplistic way, basically nonexistent enemy AI aside from "get in range, spam attack until you or I is dead" and Jesus I could literally go on for another 3 paragraphs. 

 

Anything that made games like Skyrim special when it came out has been done and done better, and I think a lot of Bethesda fans who actually play other games are probably in for an unpleasant epiphany. I'm sure many (especially those who only play Bethesda games whenever they come out) will be satisfied enough, but I really don't think we're gonna be looking at universal acclaim and cultural phenomenon meme status here unless they actually have accomplished something I just haven't seen yet, which seems unlikely from Low Bar Bethesda.

 

Some folks keep bringing Zelda comparisons into every thread, so I guess I'll do it here: Go talk to any NPC in Zelda, especially Gorons, and go look at that fucking Nintendo game on a now low-tier tablet run circles over the animations and facial expressions in a $7 billion studio's flagship title with a virtually unlimited budget. Come on. 

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legend

legend

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2 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

I'm bewildered at WHY they sell gangbusters. Every single element of their games is usually bottom tier trash except maybe KINDA world design, and anything they do even kind of good has been completely eclipsed since Skyrim's release. 

 

They do absolutely abysmal combat, boring and tedious traversal, middling voice acting, bottom of the barrel animation, hugely noninteractive worlds sans like... fucking stacking cheese or whatever, lame and uninteresting stories, generic characters, simplistic character builds, world class bad difficulty modifiers, barebones AI routine scheduling, hilariously bad dialog choices that don't mean anything, every single conversation is framed in the exact same embarrassingly simplistic way, basically nonexistent enemy AI aside from "get in range, spam attack until you or I is dead" and Jesus I could literally go on for another 3 paragraphs. 

 

Anything that made games like Skyrim special when it came out has been done and done better, and I think a lot of Bethesda fans who actually play other games are probably in for an unpleasant epiphany. I'm sure many (especially those who only play Bethesda games whenever they come out) will be satisfied enough, but I really don't think we're gonna be looking at universal acclaim and cultural phenomenon meme status here unless they actually have accomplished something I just haven't seen yet, which seems unlikely from Low Bar Bethesda.

 

Some folks keep bringing Zelda comparisons into every thread, so I guess I'll do it here: Go talk to any NPC in Zelda, especially Gorons, and go look at that fucking Nintendo game on a now low-tier tablet run circles over the animations and facial expressions in a $7 billion studio's flagship title with a virtually unlimited budget. Come on. 

 

 

When Oblivion released, it was wildly impressive and led the way for open world games. Skyrim was less of an achievement and I was deeply annoyed that they removed my favorite feature: being able to make your own spells (which if you speced your character build for mana led to some absolutely awesome custom spells), but they were still unique enough that it was a stand out game.

 

But I agree, since then, open world RPGs have evolved so fucking much and I don't know if Bethesda has moved with it. I hope they have and I'm sure I'll still enjoy Starfield. But the demos haven't made me think they can rival the best.

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Xbob42

Xbob42

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8 minutes ago, legend said:

 

 

When Oblivion released, it was wildly impressive and led the way for open world games. Skyrim was less of an achievement and I was deeply annoyed that they removed my favorite feature: being able to make your own spells (which if you speced your character build for mana led to some absolutely awesome custom spells), but they were still unique enough that it was a stand out game.

 

But I agree, since then, open world RPGs have evolved so fucking much and I don't know if Bethesda has moved with it. I hope they have and I'm sure I'll still enjoy Starfield. But the demos haven't made me think they can rival the best.

Yeah, to be clear when I say "every game" I'm talking modern Bethesda, which I consider probably around the Oblivion range, but more realistically around the Fallout 3 range.

 

Some of their earlier work was actually groundbreaking and unique. It had many of the same problems, but those problems were more forgivable 15 to 20+ years ago when they were bringing actual novel ideas to the table. It feels like their games actually keep regressing, though. I mean at least Fallout 4's combat felt less awful than 3's, but it still was nowhere near good. But Daggerfall had you climbing on any vertical surface almost 30 years ago, Morrowind had you combining spells in crazy ways to fly across the entire game world in seconds, and then they started becoming really console focused and now traversal is the most unfun bog standard stuff in gaming.

 

Not sure if Starfield will change that, but it's really, really hard to be optimistic. Especially when you see Fallout 76 being them bolting on multiplayer to their engine. Can't wait to see how it breaks to fucking pieces with space travel, or how they innovate on making space travel unfun. Oh boy I hope the final boss is a space ship that's just a reskinned Paarthurnax like in Fallout 76!


Todd Howard has proudly gone on record many times saying he's not the guy who thinks of what they can add, but what they can subtract from games. He says it like a profound yoga guru in a cloud of weed smoke, and it's just as impressive. I'm sure he means that he cuts out all the fat (despite the games being 100% fat) but what it has meant in practice is they've subtracted all the fun, cool shit that made their games stand out and left a husk. That husk has done quite well. Well, Skyrim has. I don't think ESO or Fallout 76 or Fallout 4 are even in the same universe of popularity. At this point I bet at least some of them are considering naming Elder Scrolls 6 "Skyrim 2."

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unogueen

unogueen

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3 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

Yeah, to be clear when I say "every game" I'm talking modern Bethesda, which I consider probably around the Oblivion range, but more realistically around the Fallout 3 range.

 

Some of their earlier work was actually groundbreaking and unique. It had many of the same problems, but those problems were more forgivable 15 to 20+ years ago when they were bringing actual novel ideas to the table. It feels like their games actually keep regressing, though. I mean at least Fallout 4's combat felt less awful than 3's, but it still was nowhere near good. But Daggerfall had you climbing on any vertical surface almost 30 years ago, Morrowind had you combining spells in crazy ways to fly across the entire game world in seconds, and then they started becoming really console focused and now traversal is the most unfun bog standard stuff in gaming.

 

Not sure if Starfield will change that, but it's really, really hard to be optimistic. Especially when you see Fallout 76 being them bolting on multiplayer to their engine. Can't wait to see how it breaks to fucking pieces with space travel, or how they innovate on making space travel unfun. Oh boy I hope the final boss is a space ship that's just a reskinned Paarthurnax like in Fallout 76!


Todd Howard has proudly gone on record many times saying he's not the guy who thinks of what they can add, but what they can subtract from games. He says it like a profound yoga guru in a cloud of weed smoke, and it's just as impressive. I'm sure he means that he cuts out all the fat (despite the games being 100% fat) but what it has meant in practice is they've subtracted all the fun, cool shit that made their games stand out and left a husk. That husk has done quite well. Well, Skyrim has. I don't think ESO or Fallout 76 or Fallout 4 are even in the same universe of popularity. At this point I bet at least some of them are considering naming Elder Scrolls 6 "Skyrim 2."

Bethsoft games have rarely been about what's on the plate. I figure it more like a hotpot. In an honest sense there's hardly an action oriented game that leans into stealth like bethsoft games while also providing basically uncontestable contiguity from a gameplay perspective. Every door leads to an interior furnished with hand placed props that are free to manipulate, along with an endless supply of searchable containers. Every NPC is vested in their own inventory. What they wear is what you loot, that's pretty big. You're not railroaded much into anything despite all the markers, and frankly I enjoy the shit out of bugs. Growing up with 90s-00s modding means playing games is mostly about breaking them. And every new bethesda game basically guarantees a gigantic swell of user content due to actually encouraging the practice rather than a faint nod. I understand they're not particularly snappy to play, but I prefer my imagination to whatever cinema pastiche simulacra that so many games strive for today.

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Xbob42

Xbob42

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2 minutes ago, unogueen said:

Bethsoft games have rarely been about what's on the plate. I figure it more like a hotpot. In an honest sense there's hardly an action oriented game that leans into stealth

cK6k0f.gif

Yeah bro, hot stealth action. And by hot I mean steaming. Like, it's good for a chuckle but I'm looking for more than that.


All the rest, again, is just... stuff that's been done before? Doors leading to interiors isn't even impressive, because there's not that many interiors. Hell, doors lead to interiors in Zelda and there's no fucking loading screen! It's just part of the same world! The rest of what you listed is fine and all but... not really a big deal to me one way or another? It's like, okay ingredients but then the chef shits in the pot for 8 years and asks why you don't like that there's less ingredients than the last soup.

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unogueen

unogueen

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2 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

cK6k0f.gif

Yeah bro, hot stealth action. And by hot I mean steaming. Like, it's good for a chuckle but I'm looking for more than that.


All the rest, again, is just... stuff that's been done before? Doors leading to interiors isn't even impressive, because there's not that many interiors. Hell, doors lead to interiors in Zelda and there's no fucking loading screen! It's just part of the same world! The rest of what you listed is fine and all but... not really a big deal to me one way or another? It's like, okay ingredients but then the chef shits in the pot for 8 years and asks why you don't like that there's less ingredients than the last soup.

It's the completeness of it. It's not that the game has doors, all door lead somewhere. Like real life most of the time. And to be honest I think the bucket trick is cute. Rather than a flag check, they do a vis check, which is systemic and used elsewhere. Also, the npcs actually have schedules. Shitty ones but I love they tried.

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Kal-El814

Kal-El814

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13 hours ago, unogueen said:

Put it in a sense it's the sims for tolkien nerds.

 

I mean… this is an issue too. If you look at the lore of what Cyrodiil was like in Morrowind, you’d expect it to be jungle with Aztec / Roman vibes. Then they decided to set Oblivion there, Lord of the Rings was super popular, so they made it more generic euro style and retconned it so that Tiber Septim made it that way. It’s why Morrowind has a pretty cool, unique style, and Oblivion is just Tolkien esque. Then by the time Skyrim comes around you can find out that the whole fucking conflict is a Thalmor plot and do… precisely nothing with that information? Nobody cares?

 

Look at the UESP page for the sun, realize it’s not a star but a tear in reality, exposure to the raw aether is why Elder Scrolls vampires can’t go outside at certain levels, and appreciate that the lore for these games is fucking bananas… and Skyrim rarely gets deeper than, “SKYRIM BELONGS TO DA NORDS.”


BGS games have a vibe that I generally like, even if we’ve gone from being able to invisibly pickpocket people telekinetically and fly in Morrowind to a much more constrained scene in Skyrim and FO4. I think Starfield will probably double down on being as wide as an ocean and as deep as a puddle… since it seems to be what most people want from them.

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Fizzzzle

Fizzzzle

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The thing BGS did better than anyone, at least up through Skyrim, was fleshing out a world you could get lost in. In Skyrim, I played for like 15 hours before I even started the main questline, and a lot of that was just from going "...huh, I wonder what's over that way..." and getting wrapped up in quests.

 

Nothing felt like a typical Ubisoft open-world checklist, everything was steeped in lore, and it made me want to explore for its own sake.

 

And I know there are CRPG games that do the same thing, but clicking around a dollhouse with party miniatures will never have the same immersion level as exploring a world from a first-person perspective. At least for me.

 

 

.... All that said, Skyrim came out almost 12 years ago, and Fallout 4 (almost 8 years ago) did NOT have that same allure. The game was fun, but it got boring. The world felt same-y. It was too reliant on radiant quests. The call of "...huh, I wonder what's over that way..." evaporated pretty quickly.

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TwinIon

TwinIon

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Watching through the DF breakdown has me wondering what kinds of things we'll see end up being PC specific. This is exactly the kind of game I'd expect to benefit incredibly from ray tracing, but it does not surprise me at all that they're not doing it for the Series X. At the same time, I'm hoping that they looked at their decade of re-selling Skyrim and decided that they'd build this game with the future in mind, be that releasing features that just murder current machines or having the expectation that they'd update it over time.

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