~*Official Thread of America's Return to Thoughts & Prayers Normalcy*~

[Littleronin]

5 hours ago, marioandsonic said:

Can we rename this thread to The Official Thread of Thoughts and Prayers?

I was thinking "The Official Thread of American Normalcy" 

[Fizzzzle]

"The Official Thread of a Well Regulated Militia"

[Brick]

16 hours ago, marioandsonic said:

Can we rename this thread to The Official Thread of Thoughts and Prayers?

 

Didn't we already have that? 

[Keyser_Soze]

29 minutes ago, Brick said:

 

Didn't we already have that? 

 

We had one before the board rebirth. It was never remade.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

Just got the notification from WaPo that there was a shooting with multiple victims at a FedEx facility at Indianapolis. No word on how many shot or deaths or status of the shooter. 

[thewhyteboar]

Fuck this shit. I'm so tired of it. 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

8 confirmed dead, shooter appears to have taken his own life.

[Remarkableriots]

Chicago police say bodycam footage shows less than a second passes from when 13-year-old is seen holding a handgun and is shot by officer

WWW.CNN.COM

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Authorities released body-worn camera footage that shows an officer making a split-second decision to fire a single shot that killed 13-year-old Adam Toledo after the boy is seen holding a handgun at the...

 

[Comet]

Some latest info on it:

 

LIVE BLOG: 8 people dead after active shooter incident at FedEx facility in Indianapolis

WWW.WRTV.COM

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Multiple victims have been reported after shots were fired at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis, according to police.

 

 

[thewhyteboar]

 

 

[CitizenVectron]

6 hours ago, Remarkableriots said:

Chicago police say bodycam footage shows less than a second passes from when 13-year-old is seen holding a handgun and is shot by officer

WWW.CNN.COM

---

Authorities released body-worn camera footage that shows an officer making a split-second decision to fire a single shot that killed 13-year-old Adam Toledo after the boy is seen holding a handgun at the...

 

 

Wait I thought he wasn't holding a gun?

[BloodyHell]

9 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Wait I thought he wasn't holding a gun?

"In slow mo he wasn't holding a gun", from the lawyer. 

No, but he had one up to that point. It was dark, and life doesn't happen in slow motion. He had a gun (that was fired already that night), and turned towards police raising his hands. 

 

Not every shooting is the cops fault. The fact the gun was already fired that night, and the speed in which things happened, this wasn't like the many, many other cases we're seeing with cops. He wasn't pulled over for having an air freshener, he was reported for firing rounds in a city at night.

 

Either way, police really, really need more training. This is a major problem. They take a few months course, then they never get any real training, ever again.

What should be happening is far more money should be spent on training, de-escalation tactics, and proper target acquisition. Police should be tactically equipped and prepared, and trained to physical and mental standards. If 25% of their time was spent on physical training and mental preparation, this shit would happen far less. Its been proven time and time again, kill house training (continuously) greatly reduces these killings.

Instead, they get a couple of months training and spend the next 20+ years on patrol without the training and tools to do their job correctly.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Police ROE should be never fire unless fired upon but they don't want to do that. They see a shadow that looks at them the wrong way and it gets shot at

[BloodyHell]

8 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Police ROE should be never fire unless fired upon but they don't want to do that. They see a shadow that looks at them the wrong way and it gets shot at

Naww, you point a gun at cops, you get whats coming to you. The problem is the hundreds every year who don't point a gun, or even have a gun, getting shot. 

Again, defunding is not the answer, aggressive, continuous training is, along with high fitness and mental health standards.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

14 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

"In slow mo he wasn't holding a gun", from the lawyer. 

No, but he had one up to that point. It was dark, and life doesn't happen in slow motion. He had a gun (that was fired already that night), and turned towards police raising his hands. 

 

Not every shooting is the cops fault. The fact the gun was already fired that night, and the speed in which things happened, this wasn't like the many, many other cases we're seeing with cops. He wasn't pulled over for having an air freshener, he was reported for firing rounds in a city at night.

 

Either way, police really, really need more training. This is a major problem. They take a few months course, then they never get any real training, ever again.

What should be happening is far more money should be spent on training, de-escalation tactics, and proper target acquisition. Police should be tactically equipped and prepared, and trained to physical and mental standards. If 25% of their time was spent on physical training and mental preparation, this shit would happen far less. Its been proven time and time again, kill house training (continuously) greatly reduces these killings.

Instead, they get a couple of months training and spend the next 20+ years on patrol without the training and tools to do their job correctly.

Its like the cop already made up his mind to shoot or something. The cop KNEW about the gun, yet barked an order that once followed would give him justification to immediately shoot the kid. If raising his hands is going to result in shooting the kid don’t ask him to raise his hands. 
 

tell him don’t turn around, slowly get down on the ground, face down, then slowly place his hands on top of his head. Then tell him to hold that position, and don’t make any sudden movements. Handcuff him, pat him down, then check the immediate area for the gun. 
 

the cop was either stupid, scared, or looking for a reason. None of which tells me he’s responsible enough to wield a deadly weapon in public. 

[BloodyHell]

Just now, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Its like the cop already made up his mind to shoot or something. The cop KNEW about the gun, yet barked an order that once followed would give him justification to immediately shoot the kid. If raising his hands is going to result in shooting the kid don’t ask him to raise his hands. 
 

tell him don’t turn around, slowly get down on the ground, face down, then slowly place his hands on top of his head. Then tell him to hold that position, and don’t make any sudden movements. Handcuff him, pat him down, then check the immediate area for the gun. 
 

the cop was either stupid, scared, or looking for a reason. 

Again, pitch dark and severely under trained, of course he was scared. The kid didn't do anything slow, he turned suddenly. Most people in the cops position would have done the same thing.

I know its cool to hate cops here, but this kid was armed, at least until the last second, and maybe when he was shot, in a chase as I understood it, and turned quickly on a lone cop. What would you expect to happen?

 

 

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Most people in the cops position would have done the same thing.

 

Most people in the cop's position don't have a legal monopoly on shooting people.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Again, pitch dark and severely under trained, of course he was scared. The kid didn't do anything slow, he turned suddenly. Most people in the cops position would have done the same thing.

I know its cool to hate cops here, but this kid was armed, at least until the last second, and maybe when he was shot, in a chase as I understood it, and turned quickly on a lone cop. What would you expect to happen?

 

 

Don’t put yourself into a situation where a quick turn of a suspect could end with you shot?

 

Police just need to play more shooters and understand the value of cover positions  

[BloodyHell]

given verbal direction, told to drop and stop and to adhere to the police officer's valid, lawful orders and the juvenile begins to turn,

 

8/10 of a second. 

 

1 minute ago, Jason said:

 

Most people in the cop's position don't have a legal monopoly on shooting people.

In this case, the cop had no cover, and an armed person turned on him.... 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

8 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Naww, you point a gun at cops, you get whats coming to you. The problem is the hundreds every year who don't point a gun, or even have a gun, getting shot. 

Again, defunding is not the answer, aggressive, continuous training is, along with high fitness and mental health standards.

Training can't fix the mistakes that cops too often make. Serious changes are needed and not just "lol more training" like funneling more money to cops is gonna fix the issues with cops

[BloodyHell]

I'd love to take all the experts here and put them in training situations like this, and see how they do it differently (and many, many of such training simulations show you would do nothing differently).

[Guest]

Maybe we also shouldn’t have trained police putting untrained civilians in a position of high stress where not following orders being flung at them results in being shot?

 

There are a lot of things we could do differently besides “comply better”

[BloodyHell]

1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Training can't fix the mistakes that cops too often make. Serious changes are needed and not just "lol more training" like funneling more money to cops is gonna fix the issues with cops

No, training absolutely prevents those mistakes, as proven by decades of trained special ops, swat, and tactical squads training for this has proven over and over again. They very rarely make these mistakes. More money does fix it when its spent correctly.

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

No, training absolutely prevents those mistakes

 

We just had a 25 year cop who's responsible for training new cops fire her gun while she though she was firing her taser.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

25 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Again, pitch dark and severely under trained, of course he was scared. The kid didn't do anything slow, he turned suddenly. Most people in the cops position would have done the same thing.

I know its cool to hate cops here, but this kid was armed, at least until the last second, and maybe when he was shot, in a chase as I understood it, and turned quickly on a lone cop. What would you expect to happen?

 

 

Not pitch dark. There was light. Lots of shadows, but light. They’ve freeze framed the video and shown camera footage from other angles. The kid tossed the gun before turning around. Did the cop see that? No, because the kid’s hand was obscured by the fence. 
 

Now either he’s severely under trained or there was nothing he could do. I know where the police are going to stand. 
 

it’s definitely not as black and white as other police involved shootings. But that doesn’t mean the cop made the best possible decisions. 

[Keyser_Soze]

31 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

I know its cool to hate cops here

 

You're damn straight it is!

 

Are you a cop?

[Kal-El814]

1 hour ago, BloodyHell said:

I'd love to take all the experts here and put them in training situations like this, and see how they do it differently (and many, many of such training simulations show you would do nothing differently).

 

HURRRRRRRRR HURR HUYRR HERRRR HERRRRRR HUURRRRRRRRRRR

[MarSolo]

I still think about the day my sister was leaving the house at night to head to her boyfriend’s and a bunch of cops were running through our backyard to chase after some suspect. Of course they run into HER first and have their guns drawn and she’s screaming at them and they’re screaming at her. 
 

Thankfully she was only Italian suntanned otherwise she would have been dead.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

1 hour ago, BloodyHell said:

In this case, the cop had no cover, and an armed person turned on him.... 

just because the cop believed he was armed doesn’t make it so. The other camera clearly shows the gun being tossed prior to turning toward the cop. But due to the fence the cop didn’t know. He still shot an unarmed person. Them having been armed 3 seconds earlier doesn’t maintain their status as “armed” when their hands are empty. 

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

just because the cop believed he was armed doesn’t make it so. The other camera clearly shows the gun being tossed prior to turning toward the cop. But due to the fence the cop didn’t know. He still shot an unarmed person. Them having been armed 3 seconds earlier doesn’t maintain their status as “armed” when their hands are empty. 

This reminds me of something that really stuck with me, it was the idea that for police to be protected legally at all when they believe a person is armed they must in fact have been armed. You don’t get to be wrong about that fact when the suspect being armed is the justification for the deadly force.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

2 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

This reminds me of something that really stuck with me, it was the idea that for police to be protected legally at all when they believe a person is armed they must in fact have been armed. You don’t get to be wrong about that fact when the suspect being armed is the justification for the deadly force.

Oh I totally get that the kid being armed at one point and the conditions at the scene will allow for all the justification for the department to rule it a good/just shooting. But that’s just based on their rules. Not based on the kid’s actual status. It’s granting a buffer and benefit of the doubt to the cop. Releasing the cop from all consequences of being wrong. 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Oh I totally get that the kid being armed at one point and the conditions at the scene will allow for all the justification for the department to rule it a good/just shooting. But that’s just based on their rules. Not based on the kid’s actual status. It’s granting a buffer and benefit of the doubt to the cop. Releasing the cop from all consequences of being wrong. 

Yeah, that’s what I mean though. The current standard is “reasonable person” when I think we need a higher one and ACTUALLY ARMED seems like a good starting point 

[Kal-El814]

The current standard for shooting someone being a bad faith definition of “fearing for my life” is fucking ridiculous, especially when the second amendment is a thing and there are millions of guns out there. Anyone COULD have a gun and lots of people COULD get a shot off real quick. That aspect of the shit ass training police receive is technically true, but using it as a justification to blast holes in people is just wildly problematic. If someone’s on the ground, prone, they COULD have a gun tucked away on them somewhere and bark off a round before the police get to them with cuffs / zipties, if that guy starts wriggling might as well blast him to make sure you get home tonight.

 

It’s fucking ridiculous and it needs to change.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

3 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

The current standard for shooting someone being a bad faith definition of “fearing for my life” is fucking ridiculous, especially when the second amendment is a thing and there are millions of guns out there. Anyone COULD have a gun and lots of people COULD get a shot off real quick. That aspect of the shit ass training police receive is technically true, but using it as a justification to blast holes in people is just wildly problematic. If someone’s on the ground, prone, they COULD have a gun tucked away on them somewhere and bark off a round before the police get to them with cuffs / zipties, if that guy starts wriggling might as well blast him to make sure you get home tonight.

 

It’s fucking ridiculous and it needs to change.

I think part of the issue is even in non-escalated situations cops are more afraid that they’ll be shot at any moment than they are that they’ll instead kill and unarmed civilian through negligence. And considering the cops have all the legal protections (not such thing as “self defense” against a cop) that’s pretty fucking scary for us. 

[CitizenVectron]