General Gaming Final Fantasy XVI – Information Thread, update: PC version in "final stages of optimization', pre-release demo planned

[Greatoneshere]

I love action games, and I love RPG's, and I love action RPG's. But I agree with a lot of the sentiments here - I'm tired of Square Enix pivoting to action RPG's instead of sticking to some variation of turn-based combat. At least in FF15 (after Royal Edition dropped I believe) and FF7R you can swap between characters in your party on the fly, and each character behaves and controls entirely differently from one another and the rest of the party you aren't controlling you can semi-control from afar and the companion combat AI does the rest.

 

My understanding here is that this is a solo combat game, if so, this looks like some variation of medieval Devil May Cry Final Fantasy. So long as the story, characters, dialogue, etc. are good (great spectacle and so on, which isn't a given with Square Enix) I'll likely play it, but in terms of gameplay and combat, I want what we used to get - unique gameplay systems in each game. Going from ATB to FF12's gambit system to FF13's paradigm shifts was fun - controlling the party members, etc. I'd just rather have that sort of stuff in the modern era than a pivot to this. I'm sure it's because this is what will sell the most or something but it's kind of lame when it comes to FF. This isn't and shouldn't be Kingdom Hearts. And I'm someone who really dug FF15's and FF7R's combat, so I'm not averse to action RPG gameplay, but this is too far afield. Obviously I'll wait and see what the full release is actually like before passing final judgment.

[Bacon]

8 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

This isn't and shouldn't be Kingdom Hearts.

that's fair

8 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

really dug FF15's (anything)

opinion discarded

 

[eventide11]

13 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

And I'm someone who really dug FF15's and FF7R's combat,

Eww.. You must like ketchup on your pancakes

[Greatoneshere]

8 minutes ago, Bacon said:

opinion discarded

 

 

 

It's a divisive game but it's third act story failings notwithstanding, it was a really fun game to actually play and it looked gorgeous in 4K on my PC at the time. Cooking, filling out requests and doing side quests, hunting, it was pretty great. And the combat was fun once you learned to work with some of the jank. FF7R's combat is, to me, simply an evolution of FF15's given it does the exact same thing - swapping characters on the fly to suit your playing style but still controlling a party and making each character/class feel unique despite now being an action RPG. FF7R is newer and did it better since FF15 was first made with just controlling Noctis in mind (so you usually control him) but you can easily swap on the fly to other characters, which I did do on occasion. This isn't a surprise since Tetsuya Nomura initially was making FF15 before moving on to FF7R and Hajime Tabata came in to complete the project and basically took his game Crisis Core's gameplay and expanded it and made it into a party system ultimately - which FF7R then further built on. 

[Greatoneshere]

1 minute ago, eventide11 said:

Eww.. You must like ketchup on your pancakes

 

I don't.  But not sure what this means in this context? I know people didn't like FF15, but I remember everyone praising FF7R's combat when it came out? Have things changed? 

[Bacon]

4 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Have things changed? 

My opinion hasn't and I certainly don't prefer it over a DMC system and I'm not a fan of DMC-likes.

 

Edit: of course, this is based on my few play-thrus of the demo and not the full game.

[Greatoneshere]

2 minutes ago, Bacon said:

My opinion hasn't and I certainly don't prefer it over a DMC system and I'm not a fan of DMC-likes.

 

Yeah but you're usually full of very spicy, hot takes.  I'm speaking more broadly the overall audience reception to the game. I know story-wise people had issues but I'm speaking from a gameplay perspective, the combat, etc. 

 

And are you saying you prefer a DMC system? DMC is even more action-oriented than FF7R is. I'm agreeing that I'd prefer turn-based, just saying I'm someone who can like action RPG's but this seems a bit too DMC even though I love the DMC games.

[skillzdadirecta]

15 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

They're ashamed of their roots and keep trying to make games they're not good at making.

Just like Bioware... honestly I was watching this trailer and thought to myself "This is the same thing Bioware is doing to Dragon Age... except not as pretty. 

[Bacon]

15 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

And are you saying you prefer a DMC system? DMC is even more action-oriented than FF7R is.

Yes. It is not the action aspect I dislike in FF7R. It's like, more of the feel I guess. I said a bit ago that I'm actually not a fan of swapping characters and I felt incentivized to do so unlike a game like Tales of _____. Like I just feel that it wasn't enough. Like it wasn't enough of an action game nor was it enough of a classic RPG. I suck at explaining it but I just don't prefer what they were trying to do based on the demo alone.  I really like KH and I really like Tales of and I feel that FF7R was doing something similar to those which makes sense for FF turning into an arpg, but I didn't like it. I recall specifically not enjoying the boss fight and the mini-boss fight (I think there was one).

 

Might be weird to say, but I think I feel that it was similar to a more actiony Xenoblade and I think Xenoblade has one of the worst combat systems ever in a JRPG.

[skillzdadirecta]

8 hours ago, Bacon said:

Like in my head, I've had this idea for turned-based combat where instead of just standing still after attacking, your character and the enemies are actually fighting the whole time. Like battles are sort of miniature cutscenes and when it becomes one of your character's turns time slows down and you select your action which then alters the mini-cutscene with whatever you selected. Even your basic attack command would look different than the "auto-attacks" that happen when you are waiting for your turn. And by mini-cutscene, I don't mean like an actual cutscene. An example I could think of would be something like Fire Emblem where it zooms in and an animation happens, but it is like that the whole fight

This is pretty much how the first Dragon Age played.

[Bacon]

23 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

This is pretty much how the first Dragon Age played.

I see what you are getting at here, but that's not what I had in my mind. Have you ever seen Advent Children? Like, in the final battle, they are constantly clashing swords but at times there is a break where something special happens. That's kinda what is in my head. That's why I called them mini-cutscenes. All those swords clashing bits are just the auto-battle, and every real hit is a command action or enemy turn. It's almost like a movie where you direct the big moves.

[thedarkstark]

I love turn based rpgs FF7 is tied for my favorite game ever. Every new FF game after 9 got further and further away from being a traditional turn based game and every time I griped and felt disappointed/betrayed and every single time I was wrong. FF12 has some of my favorite combat of the whole series. 13 was a deeply flawed game but the combat was excellent. FF7R crushed my soul when I found out it wasnt turn-based but they actually did a really great job of making it feel like FF7 once you had a full party to switch between.

 

Moral of the story: I will never doubt Final Fantasy again at least when it comes to combat, the combat is always great and XVI is the first game in decades that feels like it has had a vision and a direction from start to finish and isnt a disjointed amalgamation of half-baked ideas hastily slapped together. 

 

It may not end up being my favorite game in the series but I have zero doubt it's going to be one hell of a ride.

[legend]

10 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I don't.  But not sure what this means in this context? I know people didn't like FF15, but I remember everyone praising FF7R's combat when it came out? Have things changed? 

 

I really like FF7R's combat. I like pretty much everything about it, actually! It along with Persona 5 are my favorite JRPGs in a long time. I think the last JRPG I enjoyed before them was Last Odyssey and maybe FFX before that.

 

FFXVI looks pretty hot too and I'm excited for it!

[BloodyHell]

18 hours ago, eventide11 said:

Eww.. You must like ketchup on your pancakes

7R's combat was great. 

 

I'm damn glad the team isn't doing turn based. I'd be fine if it was, but it's about damn time they brought in a real gameplay/combat designer. 

[best3444]

It would be cool to go back to turn based but if they really pull off a satisfying combat system for 16, then keep moving forward with that. I personally can't wait for this. It may be my GOTY.

[BloodyHell]

6 minutes ago, best3444 said:

It would be cool to go back to turn based but if they really pull off a satisfying combat system for 16, then keep moving forward with that. I personally can't wait for this. It may be my GOTY.

Yeah, I’m fine with turn based, but DMC is so damn good. I’ve been seeing people screaming online about how “FF is a button masher now”, and that’s how I know they never played DMC. If you button mash in DMC, it feels awful and awkward. 

[thedarkstark]

3 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Yeah, I’m fine with turn based, but DMC is so damn good. I’ve been seeing people screaming online about how “FF is a button masher now”, and that’s how I know they never played DMC. If you button mash in DMC, it feels awful and awkward. 

But it will be button masher for those people because they're going to have to play it in "game journalist mode" and equip the rings that play the game for you. 

[BloodyHell]

2 minutes ago, thedarkstark said:

But it will be button masher for those people because they're going to have to play it in "game journalist mode" and equip the rings that play the game for you. 

that's up to them. They can do that, or learn the system. 

 

The funny thing is I heard one guy on reddit screaming about how they took away FF's tactical combat. I've been playing FF games since 1989-90, and never once have I considered the combat in them to be tactical. 

Maybe the gambits in FFXII, but that also took away all challenge. 

[thedarkstark]

9 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

that's up to them. They can do that, or learn the system. 

 

The funny thing is I heard one guy on reddit screaming about how they took away FF's tactical combat. I've been playing FF games since 1989-90, and never once have I considered the combat in them to be tactical. 

Maybe the gambits in FFXII, but that also took away all challenge. 

Certainly the regular enemies didn't require much tactical planning but a lot of the bosses did especially if you were a bit under-leveled. I remember quite a few that required keeping up certain buffs or you'd be cooked. Definitely the super-bosses (Ruby/Emerald Weapon in 7, Ultima & Omega weapon in 8, Ozma in 9, Nemesis & Penance in X, Paragon & Trema in X-2. etc). required a lot of planning 2-3 turns ahead and coming in well equipped. That's honestly my favorite part of RPGs and especially FF games, doing all the sidequests, getting geared out so you can obliterate any enemy but still struggling to beat those superbosses.

[Keyser_Soze]

38 minutes ago, best3444 said:

It would be cool to go back to turn based but if they really pull off a satisfying combat system for 16, then keep moving forward with that. I personally can't wait for this. It may be my GOTY.

 

Game is gonna suck, you can tell because Sony is hyping it up so hard and Bacon is going to regret asking for a PS5 to play this.

[crispy4000]

I’m cool with mainline entries going more action if we also get remakes or good spin-offs that try something different.

 

Sort of like Resident Evil straddling the line between 1st and 3rd person.

[BloodyHell]

21 minutes ago, thedarkstark said:

Certainly the regular enemies didn't require much tactical planning but a lot of the bosses did especially if you were a bit under-leveled. I remember quite a few that required keeping up certain buffs or you'd be cooked. Definitely the super-bosses (Ruby/Emerald Weapon in 7, Ultima & Omega weapon in 8, Ozma in 9, Nemesis & Penance in X, Paragon & Trema in X-2. etc). required a lot of planning 2-3 turns ahead and coming in well equipped. That's honestly my favorite part of RPGs and especially FF games, doing all the sidequests, getting geared out so you can obliterate any enemy but still struggling to beat those superbosses.

but you can do all of that in action combat. You're still casting spells, i'm only guessing, but I'd think we'll definitely be casting shell and the like on ourselves, using fire on ice, defending at specific times, etc. They said even though it's not turn based, you would still feel like it was a final fantasy game when it comes to abilities. 

 

There's a few bosses throughout the series that are pretty hard, but nothing like Souls or anything. They generally all require special abilities and levels to survive, or a timer to beat, which has always been the way they balanced these things in the early days. I don't know that beating something with patterns is truly tactical. 

 

Tactics was tactical, obviously. The main games have mostly been level and fight. 

[BloodyHell]

26 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Game is gonna suck, you can tell because Sony is hyping it up so hard and Bacon is going to regret asking for a PS5 to play this.

doubtful. Everything Yoshida has done with FF has been incredible. 

[Keyser_Soze]

Just now, BloodyHell said:

doubtful. Everything Yoshida has done with FF has been incredible. 

 

All good things must come to an end

[BloodyHell]

Just now, Keyser_Soze said:

 

All good things must come to an end

Sure, but it doesn't look to be happening here. Game looks incredible. 

[Keyser_Soze]

3 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Sure, but it doesn't look to be happening here. Game looks incredible. 

 

Incredible... how bad it looks!

[BloodyHell]

Just now, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Incredible... how bad it looks!

Troll away. being wrong about games is not new to you. 

[Keyser_Soze]

2 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

 being wrong about games is not new to you. 

 

Same could be said about you.

[Biggie]

This game will be so mid and completely forgotten in a few months after launch. 

[Bacon]

48 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

Bacon is going to regret asking for a PS5 to play this.

Won't regret it as I already played GoWR and DeS, and like, I still own a PS5 which is very cool. But I will be unhappy with FF16 if it ends with the MC's death no matter how good the story is. Only one game has ever pulled off the MC dying.

 

I lied. There are 3 games that have pulled it off. But only one of them is Japanese and Japan sucks dick at endings.

[Bacon]

I really am looking forward to the story tho. Despite having seen every trailer and demo except for the state of play, I actually don't know any of the plot details aside from "muh revenge" and I actually wonder what is the end goal of the story. It is always about saving the day and killing god for the most part, but none of us know how or why we will be saving the day and what kind of god we are going to kill. Will it be the god behind the mortal villain, or will the mortal villain become a god?

 

Edit: The kino route would be to kill god and then have a 1v1 fight with the mortal villain at the edge of the universe

[Brian]

When I think of adult medieval fantasy inspired by Game of Thrones, I definitely did not expect over the top anime fucking combat. I guess juggling a person in the sky for 10 minutes pulling flashy combo after flashy combo is fitting. Looking forward to seeing an extremely well endowed woman wearing a bikini and flying on a dragon come to my rescue!

[Bacon]

CBUIII is pretty good about not including that in the main story stuff. Now, that is the kind of stuff you might see in side quest stuff.

[skillzdadirecta]

3 hours ago, Brian said:

When I think of adult medieval fantasy inspired by Game of Thrones, I definitely did not expect over the top anime fucking combat. I guess juggling a person in the sky for 10 minutes pulling flashy combo after flashy combo is fitting. Looking forward to seeing an extremely well endowed woman wearing a bikini and flying on a dragon come to my rescue!

I get your point but maybe the story is more Game of Thrones inspired? I'm lookig forward to the game but you're right, that combat looked straight out of a 90's Shonen Anime 

[Mercury33]

On 4/14/2023 at 10:09 AM, eventide11 said:

I guess I'm just tired of Squeenix and FFs telling us what we want instead of giving us what we want 

This is, in fact, what I want from them though. So they’re listening to some of us 😉