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House of the Dragon (HBO, August 21) - update: first reviews posted

fuckle85

By fuckle85
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johnny

johnny

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Posted
45 minutes ago, Moa said:

I liked the ep and the scene, but the whole thing didn’t make sense. Daemon wasn’t present during the conversation about using himself as bait, he didn’t coordinate his actions with the fleet, you couldn’t mobilize a naval landing in the time it took him to run off like a loon, and someone is crabfeeder’s army surely would’ve noticed the army mobilizing before they had arrived on shore, mustered, and attacked. 
 

It was a cool scene that continued to establish that Daemon is just angstier Geralt, but it was very late season GoT logic. 

you need them to hold your hand and show you the convo between laenor and daemon about the plan? we already knew the plan. we saw daemon was pissed his brother was sending help. that would have felt unnecessary to me. the other stuff, idk i wasn’t paying that close attention i was just enjoying the fight and it was good enough nothing jumped out at me. 

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Guest

Guest

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16 hours ago, johnny said:

you need them to hold your hand and show you the convo between laenor and daemon about the plan? we already knew the plan. we saw daemon was pissed his brother was sending help. that would have felt unnecessary to me. the other stuff, idk i wasn’t paying that close attention i was just enjoying the fight and it was good enough nothing jumped out at me. 

 

There is a particular way that some people watch movies and TV shows that seems intent on being annoyed by things.

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Greatoneshere

Greatoneshere

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Posted

My wife and I finally watched the first three episodes out now of the show and it's good. Not very good and not great yet, but I like the focus, I like the lack of fan service to the original books/TV show (for the most part), and it feels tightly written and executed. I'm a little concerned with all the Daemon praising in here. He sucks. I mean, he's a great character acted well, but dude just went on a killing spree of innocent civilians in King's Landing (looked like they were just picking random people to hurt and beating up everybody in Oldtown to Fleabottom) just to make an example and then killed allied civilians and enemy combatants alike when he initiated the war with Crabfeeder. Daemon is a bad dude and I do not find him cool or likeable. Interesting, yes, entertaining for the show, yes, but never cool. Maybe a slimy magnetism at best.

 

Show is good though, we'll be sticking with it for now. 

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Mercury33

Mercury33

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12 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

My wife and I finally watched the first three episodes out now of the show and it's good. Not very good and not great yet, but I like the focus, I like the lack of fan service to the original books/TV show (for the most part), and it feels tightly written and executed. I'm a little concerned with all the Daemon praising in here. He sucks. I mean, he's a great character acted well, but dude just went on a killing spree of innocent civilians in King's Landing (looked like they were just picking random people to hurt and beating up everybody in Oldtown to Fleabottom) just to make an example and then killed allied civilians and enemy combatants alike when he initiated the war with Crabfeeder. Daemon is a bad dude and I do not find him cool or likeable. Interesting, yes, entertaining for the show, yes, but never cool. Maybe a slimy magnetism at best.

 

Show is good though, we'll be sticking with it for now. 


Totally understand that viewpoint. 
 

However for me personally, I find that I like and find lots of villains to be badass. Not because I support their viewpoints or actions but because of how well they are portrayed as a bad guy. I could watch Patrick Bateman and Bill the Butcher all day. HORRIBLE characters to the core but I love the way the actors portray them and how much nuance there is to their character. Same with Daemon. He’s not a black and white villain. And that episode, for him to accomplish as much character work as he did with only one line of dialogue was spectacular. He’s not a villain im rooting for to be killed or to lose(at this time) becasue I find him so interesting that I want to see more. And yes his whole combat sequence was literally bad ass so that plays into it. So maybe there’s a better word that describes my feelings towards villains like him without conveying such positive support. But I don’t know what it is so for right now that’s just what I mean when I say he’s awesome/bad ass haha

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Greatoneshere

Greatoneshere

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15 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:


Totally understand that viewpoint. 
 

However for me personally, I find that I like and find lots of villains to be badass. Not because I support their viewpoints or actions but because of how well they are portrayed as a bad guy. I could watch Patrick Bateman and Bill the Butcher all day. HORRIBLE characters to the core but I love the way the actors portray them and how much nuance there is to their character. Same with Daemon. He’s not a black and white villain. And that episode, for him to accomplish as much character work as he did with only one line of dialogue was spectacular. He’s not a villain im rooting for to be killed or to lose(at this time) becasue I find him so interesting that I want to see more. And yes his whole combat sequence was literally bad ass so that plays into it. So maybe there’s a better word that describes my feelings towards villains like him without conveying such positive support. But I don’t know what it is so for right now that’s just what I mean when I say he’s awesome/bad ass haha

 

I can find the Joker interesting. I can find Colonel Kurtz interesting. Villains can be compelling. Some of what a villain pulls off is impressive. But badass implies positive/cool. Like, I'm rooting for him. I have at no point rooted for Daemon. I'm not trying to be pedantic to all who find Daemon cool or badass in this thread but I think it's important we use the right words here given this happens often with fictional evil characters. The fight sequence was impressive, but I wanted Daemon to lose. He may not be a black and white villain, but he's committed mass murder (twice in 3 episodes already! and he beat up the messenger from his brother, which is like the one thing you don't do!). If Stalin or Hitler did what he did but had a cool fight sequence, I wouldn't suddenly think them "badass". I'm speaking generally though, not at you specifically. :) 

 

Look at it this way. Allegedly according to Vince Gilligan/Peter Gould of the Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul universe, they were disappointed that so many people thought Walter White was "cool" and "badass" for one upping cartel drug lords and saying he's the one who knocks, etc. They always meant for him to appear as a villain, which is why you never see a positive scene of Walter White in Better Call Saul. They doubled down on his bitterness, irritating nature, and old, pointless regrets to hammer he's a villain and a loser. That is how I've always seen Daemon, Joker, Walter White, Colonel Kurtz, Tony Soprano, Tyler Durden, whoever. These are not tough guys who are cool or badass to me. These are sad and broken men screaming at the world like petulant children that they "deserve" more and that they should "take it" because they've been "wronged" in general by "society" and that they "know" better. Sound like a certain segment of the voting American electorate? All these characters fall into this characterization. They can be compelling on screen. Complex and interesting to watch. But cool? Badass? Do I want this serial killer/genocidal power hungry maniac to win in any way? No. Being in "awe" of a villain's villainy is not the same, to me, as being badass or cool. Awe in the old school sense of the term. :p 

 

Edit: women have their bizarre version of this too, in terms of romance (not sure about women and villainous female characters as much, though I'm sure someone saw Hela destroy Asgard in Thor: Ragnarok and thought that was cool even though Hela was like, massacring an entire military). But similarly, there's a certain portion, a loud enough portion online, of women who love the stalker dude character from You. Who love Jacob Elordi's abusive teenage boyfriend character in Euphoria. The completely creepy and power imbalanced relationships in 50 Shades of Grey trilogy and the Twilight books/films. Things like that. And in the same way, I'm not really sure this segment of women understands these are men you are not supposed to like. When Jacob Elordi found out some women were in love with his character, he was horrified. 

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There are certainly some people who love the authoritarian villains because they actually find those traits to be the mark of good moral character.

 

I think most of what I see around Daemon though seems to be an appreciation for him being a good narrative character. A lot of the antagonists in stories have very little depth to them. It is interesting to see Daemon, at least initially, seem to have genuine affection for his family despite being a sadistic terror. 

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Greatoneshere

Greatoneshere

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4 hours ago, TheLeon said:

It’s kinda like that Darth Vader scene at the end of Rogue One, isn’t it? Even if you’re not rooting for them in the moment, it’s fun to watch a bad guy really pop off. 

 

I agree, but the tone of Rogue One is very different than House of the Dragon, which kind of changes villain perceptions. But to me it was more "awe inspiring" than cool (again, meant in the old school way of awe inspiring). But I do get where you're coming from.

 

3 hours ago, sblfilms said:

There are certainly some people who love the authoritarian villains because they actually find those traits to be the mark of good moral character.

 

I think most of what I see around Daemon though seems to be an appreciation for him being a good narrative character. A lot of the antagonists in stories have very little depth to them. It is interesting to see Daemon, at least initially, seem to have genuine affection for his family despite being a sadistic terror. 

 

I definitely think you're on to something, but is there a lot of depth to him yet? They've hinted at more, I'll definitely give it that. But he just seems antagonistic, entitled and irritable towards everybody, including his family. He definitely seems torn when it comes to Rhaenyra, but otherwise not so much with anyone else. Doesn't mean I don't find the character very entertaining! I definitely do. But badass? Cool? I'm not so sure. :p 

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Mercury33

Mercury33

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Well you kinda answered your own question about Dameon’s depth haha. He does see something different around Rhaeyrana. As far as we know he’s on the good side of that war. He acted like a savage and cheated in the tournament but accepted his loss. Hell the whole seen of that solider seeing him come to save the day but then his dragon stomps on him is so representative of his character so far. 
 

I also don’t think we’re using the “wrong” words when describing him. Like I said, I 100% see your side of it and completely respect that view. But I do think he was a badass in that episode while also being completely capable of understanding he’s a bad guy. The Star Wars analogy is perfect. Vader and Boba Fett are viewed as two of the coolest characters in fiction. 100% bad. Even if House of the Dragon has a much more serious tone than Star Wars it’s still a made up fantasy show about dragons and wizards at its core. 

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Greatoneshere

Greatoneshere

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2 hours ago, Mercury33 said:

Well you kinda answered your own question about Dameon’s depth haha. He does see something different around Rhaeyrana. As far as we know he’s on the good side of that war. He acted like a savage and cheated in the tournament but accepted his loss. Hell the whole seen of that solider seeing him come to save the day but then his dragon stomps on him is so representative of his character so far. 
 

I also don’t think we’re using the “wrong” words when describing him. Like I said, I 100% see your side of it and completely respect that view. But I do think he was a badass in that episode while also being completely capable of understanding he’s a bad guy. The Star Wars analogy is perfect. Vader and Boba Fett are viewed as two of the coolest characters in fiction. 100% bad. Even if House of the Dragon has a much more serious tone than Star Wars it’s still a made up fantasy show about dragons and wizards at its core. 

 

Yeah I think I can get behind all that. I don't know that if being selective by feeling close to one family member (Rhaenyra) per se provides a depth that rivals his already multiple clearly evil actions, but I'm certainly intrigued by Daemon for sure. I didn't even want to watch the show initially and now I'm getting invested. :lol:

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skillzdadirecta

skillzdadirecta

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Not gonna go through this thread because I JUST started the show. Was trying to wait for a couple of episodes to be up before I started watching because I know watching a show like this week to week is almost AGONY for me but I'll just say, I finished the first episode and I'm all in. The original series was one of my all time favorites RIGHT UP till the end. While I didn't hate it as much as other people, I DID think it was both underwhelming and dissapointing at the end there. This series is on the right track to bring me back. I LOVED Fire and Blood so. I'm looking forward to really getting into this series.

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Moa

Moa

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1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Matt Smith knew exactly what film he was in with Morbius. Watch Lost River, The Crown and Doctor Who - Matt Smith is a phenomenal actor.

 

Lost River is a pretty mediocre film, but I was just looking through Smith's IMDB and was absolutely floored to see that he was Mr. "Look at my muscles."

 

 

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Greatoneshere

Greatoneshere

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55 minutes ago, EternallDarkness said:

 

 

that may well be but now I can't see him without seeing his Morbius character 

 

Maybe watch more Matt Smith stuff and that'll fade? :p 

 

25 minutes ago, Moa said:

 

Lost River is a pretty mediocre film, but I was just looking through Smith's IMDB and was absolutely floored to see that he was Mr. "Look at my muscles."

 

 

 

I'm a big fan of Lost River, though I know I'm in the minority on that. It's a beautiful film to experience in my opinion, but much more of an experience than a traditional film (Ryan Gosling directed it, clearly influenced by his time working with Nicolas Winding Refn). But yeah, Smith being that character shows his ability and range. 

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b_m_b_m_b_m

b_m_b_m_b_m

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That was an extremely horny episode 

 

Spoiler
21 minutes ago, 69los said:

Pretty shrewd giving her that tea. If she takes it, she admits she lied. If not and she starts to show, Viserys will still know she lied.

I don’t think that matters or that he would care as the perception is already there, he’s just covering bases to make sure she gets married off with no issues regardless of the truth of what happened that night

 

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Greatoneshere

Greatoneshere

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This was a super horny episode. Also, Daemon still sucks, but that's no surprise. I think Cristin Cole is gonna get killed if he keeps fucking Rhaenyra in secret while people keep thinking it was Daemon she went all the way with. Also if she marries Laenor Velaryon and she is pregnant with Cristin Cole's child, it's gonna be pretty obvious it's not Laenor's kid given the Velaryon's are half black and half white. Also timeline may not work out unless they move fast getting married.

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SimpleG

SimpleG

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1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said:

This was a super horny episode. Also, Daemon still sucks, but that's no surprise. I think Cristin Cole is gonna get killed if he keeps fucking Rhaenyra in secret while people keep thinking it was Daemon she went all the way with. Also if she marries Laenor Velaryon and she is pregnant with Cristin Cole's child, it's gonna be pretty obvious it's not Laenor's kid given the Velaryon's are half black and half white. Also timeline may not work out unless they move fast getting married.

Plenty of biracial kids can pass as white, the bigger issue is if the kid has black hair. 

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Firewithin

Firewithin

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On 9/11/2022 at 7:22 PM, 69los said:

Pretty shrewd giving her that tea. If she takes it, she admits she lied. If not and she starts to show, Viserys will still know she lied.

am i wrong in that she only said she didnt fuck daemon not that she just didnt fuck in general since she was at the pleasure house which can also be a reason for the tea.  and not counting as far as we know nobody knows about the knight

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Greatoneshere

Greatoneshere

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31 minutes ago, Firewithin said:

am i wrong in that she only said she didnt fuck daemon not that she just didnt fuck in general since she was at the pleasure house which can also be a reason for the tea.  and not counting as far as we know nobody knows about the knight

 

I mean, Daemon and Rhaenyra may not have had sex but they certainly did stuff, so she's still lying either way.

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69los

69los

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25 minutes ago, Firewithin said:

am i wrong in that she only said she didnt fuck daemon not that she just didnt fuck in general since she was at the pleasure house which can also be a reason for the tea.  and not counting as far as we know nobody knows about the knight

 

Yeah, I didn't think about that. Good outside the box thinking. Before realizing that, I also thought that Viserys, as a father, politics aside, would like to know if his daughter was sullied by Daemon.

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Greatoneshere

Greatoneshere

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3 hours ago, Mercury33 said:

Didn’t she say to her dad at one point, “I assure you I’m still a maiden” or something like that. I look that to mean she was saying she was still a virgin to him. Which clearly she is not. 

 

Alicent asked if anything had happened between her and Daemon. Rhaenyra said they just drank a lot, went to a brothel, and then Daemon left. That's not at all what happened, and that's essentially how she's presenting it to everybody. She's can't say some stuff happened, even though she also didn't straight up have sex either (well, not with Daemon anyway).

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