Movies ~*Colin Trevorrow's Star Wars: Episode IX - Duel of the Fates OT*~

[IdeaOfEvil]

I just read all the reddit spoilers... I'm real curious to read the reaction posts from the usual suspects around here come release date.

[CitizenVectron]

9 minutes ago, IdeaOfEvil said:

I just read all the reddit spoilers... I'm real curious to read the reaction posts from the usual suspects around here come release date.

 

Me too! 

[CitizenVectron]

The Resetera thread on impressions is...interesting. The common belief seems to be that the negative impressions are a good thing since they prove that it makes TLJ pointless (since Resetera hates TLJ for the most part), and that more fan service = good trilogy ending.

 

EDIT - Like look at this:

 

Quote

The people that think TLJ was amazing are the same people that refer to star wars as kids movies with space wizards...smh. If you're indifferent about the franchise, or can't understand how there's still 'toxicity' why belittle those who have more passion for the franchise. Let them discuss and critique a story which impacts their childhood fantasies so significantly. Why revel in the fact that this movie is so hurtful to many, it's like you want this wonderful universe to fit your ideals and world view only, anyone else is not part of the club.
Why defend an otherwise successful director so vehemently, bloody defending him like he paid for your tuition.

 

Yeah...it is a movie about space wizards for kids. The fact that the OT had such an outsized impact on kids (who are now adults) is a massive credit to how good it was, but that doesn't change that Star Wars is a fantasy series about space wizards and laser pirates.

 

EDIT 2 - Not to say that TROS won't be quite enjoyable. Overall even most "negative" impressions have been similar to TFA in saying that while the plot isn't great, the execution is fun.

 

EDIT 3 - In the end, general audiences have liked the new movies quite a bit, regardless of what we argue about!

To date this is the only reputable and reliable poll since it was not self-selected (it's the cinemascore polling done after screenings in 20 markets).

[Anzo]

Spoiler Free Impressions after sleeping on it:
 

There is a LOT of fan service in the movie. There are a number of surprises and also some head scratchers and eye rollers tbh. I was afraid that it would all be about Rey’s parentage and it absolutely was all about that. It doesn’t undo what Rian said about them in TLJ but it also kind of does, if that makes sense. When that moment is revealed, I kinda just rolled me eyes and bit and thought, really? 
 

But in the same vein, JJ makes it work, and makes it believable. So I’m not too disappointed that it went that way.

 

To JJ’s credit, he backs up and builds upon things that happened in TLJ in some cool ways. 

 

This movie is a lot. It doesn’t let up,  very frenetic pace I felt throughout. I’ll have to see if the pace feels the same on repeat viewing. I kept thinking back to the scene in TFA where Rey and Finn are running away from the Jakku marketplace, find the falcon and such. 80% of the pacing of this movie felt like that scene.
 

There are some genuinely creepy parts. Kids will get scared by some scenes. 
 

I had to put my phone and watch in a locked bag so I don’t even know how long it way. Well over 2 hours I think but not as long as TLJ I don’t think. 
 

The scenes where they use old Leia footage almost work. It’s like 80% of the way there. Honestly, for what they had I’m surprised it worked that well. Still just a little awkward though and you can see through the cracks. She is in there way more than I thought. Not dream sequences. Leia is an integral part of the movie for 75% of it.
 

There are many, many good moments and scenes in this movie. I think all the actors did great in their roles, especially Adam Driver. 

 

7/10 - some glaring narrative problems and Uber fans will probably hate it. Some on Reddit already do. If you’ve read leaks they are 100% true apparently. I didn’t read any ahead of time. A satisfying but by no means perfect conclusion to this saga. Will definitely see it again this weekend. Hope you all enjoy it. 

 

 

[Joe]

27 minutes ago, Anzo said:

 

Spoiler Free Impressions after sleeping on it:

 

There is a LOT of fan service in the movie. There are a number of surprises and also some head scratchers and eye rollers tbh. I was afraid that it would all be about Rey’s parentage and it absolutely was all about that. It doesn’t undo what Rian said about them in TLJ but it also kind of does, if that makes sense. When that moment is revealed, I kinda just rolled me eyes and bit and thought, really? 
 

 

But in the same vein, JJ makes it work, and makes it believable. So I’m not too disappointed that it went that way.

 

To JJ’s credit, he backs up and builds upon things that happened in TLJ in some cool ways. 

 

This movie is a lot. It doesn’t let up,  very frenetic pace I felt throughout. I’ll have to see if the pace feels the same on repeat viewing. I kept thinking back to the scene in TFA where Rey and Finn are running away from the Jakku marketplace, find the falcon and such. 80% of the pacing of this movie felt like that scene.
 

There are some genuinely creepy parts. Kids will get scared by some scenes. 
 

I had to put my phone and watch in a locked bag so I don’t even know how long it way. Well over 2 hours I think but not as long as TLJ I don’t think. 
 

The scenes where they use old Leia footage almost work. It’s like 80% of the way there. Honestly, for what they had I’m surprised it worked that well. Still just a little awkward though and you can see through the cracks. She is in there way more than I thought. Not dream sequences. Leia is an integral part of the movie for 75% of it.
 

There are many, many good moments and scenes in this movie. I think all the actors did great in their roles, especially Adam Driver. 

 

7/10 - some glaring narrative problems and Uber fans will probably hate it. Some on Reddit already do. If you’ve read leaks they are 100% true apparently. I didn’t read any ahead of time. A satisfying but by no means perfect conclusion to this saga. Will definitely see it again this weekend. Hope you all enjoy it.[/spoilers]

My fault for looking at this thread, but wtf bro.

[Anzo]

6 minutes ago, Jose said:

 

My fault for looking at this thread, but wtf bro.

Uhhh, there are zero spoilers there bro. Who Rey is has been a theme of this ENTIRE trilogy. 

[Joe]

4 minutes ago, Anzo said:

Uhhh, there are zero spoilers there bro. Who Rey is has been a theme of this ENTIRE trilogy. 

 

Search your feelings. You know it to not be true.

[CitizenVectron]

Impressions by CinemaBlend:

 

tl;dw: Conflicted, tried to satisfy every fan and struggled with it. Choices made that weren't the right direction. Well-shot. Stuff thrown away/ignored from TFA/TLJ that felt hollow. Fan service. ROTJ for this trilogy - actors felt confident in their roles. Cool set pieces. Disappointing overall. Non-stop action. 

 

They loved TFA and TLJ. ROTS was a reversion to "here's what we think you want in Star Wars" instead of moving it forward.

 

 

 

[Anzo]

4 minutes ago, Jose said:

 

Search your feelings. You know it to not be true.

I think you are being too force sensitive about it personally but nevertheless I apologize for potentially maybe spoiling something that happens in the first 5 minutes of the film. My bad. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Many of those "large obstacles" they reference were actually created by Abrams himself.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

After reading @Anzo's spoiler-filled plot summary in a Discord channel, the film sounds like a glorious/ridiculous mess and the emotion that I'm sure I'll feel at the end is "relief" that this thing is finally over 

[TwinIon]

On 12/11/2019 at 11:24 AM, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

I love this guy’s channel. There are many Star Wars “lore masters” out there, so there are lots of sources to get information. Anyways here is a video just uploaded explaining Palpatine’s plans for if he ever died using only cannon material. 
 

 

Anyone know what canon sources is he pulling from for this video? Comics? Novels?

[Bacon]

1 hour ago, Anzo said:

If you’ve read leaks they are 100% true apparently.

Oh no no no no no no 

 

OK, so I am not sure if I have ever shat on Rian or just on his Star Wars movie. But the real blame for everything falls to Disney for their hodgepodge directors and writers. Really should have made sure it followed someone's "vision" instead of whatever this is. 

[CitizenVectron]

31 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

Many of those "large obstacles" they reference were actually created by Abrams himself.

 

Oh totally, and a lot of people who will blame TLJ for this movie being mediocre should take a look at how much TFA hamstrung TLJ, and how Johnson managed to overcome it anyway. The biggest (plot) mistake in the entire ST was having Luke show up in the last 2 minutes of TFA. This did a few things, but the most important is that it mean that Johnson had to pick up immediately where TFA left off instead of doing a normal time jump. The opposite is true with the end of TLJ: While many people complain that it left no obvious path...that is actually a great opportunity for the next director. JJ could literally come in and do anything he wanted. He could start the plot immediately after TLJ, he could jump forward a few years and invent some more backstory, etc. In my opinion it's not a valid criticism of TLJ, while it's a totally valid criticism of TFA.

[CitizenVectron]

12 minutes ago, Bacon said:

Oh no no no no no no 

 

OK, so I am not sure if I have ever shat on Rian or just on his Star Wars movie. But the real blame for everything falls to Disney for their hodgepodge directors and writers. Really should have made sure it followed someone's "vision" instead of whatever this is. 

 

Agreed, mostly. I don't think a super-specific plan was needed, but a general idea would have helped. Or, at the very least, keep it free-form but space the movies out more so that one isn't being written before the previous one is even finished.

[CayceG]

I'll maintain that JJ Abrams was not a good choice to begin with to really hold up the storytelling of the original trilogy. His characters were incredible. Finn, Poe, and Rey were and are just great GREAT additions to the series, but the overall plot development just isn't that strong in TFA. 

 

I'm excited to see this movie, sure. But I'm braced for another JJ flick. 

Selfishly, I want another movie that FEELS the way Rogue One and The Last Jedi felt. JJ doesn't make movies that feel that way. That's probably fine, but his Star Wars films are just going to be that different. 

[Bacon]

18 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

After reading @Anzo's spoiler-filled plot summary in a Discord channel, the film sounds like a glorious/ridiculous mess and the emotion that I'm sure I'll feel at the end is "relief" that this thing is finally over

Is it still up or is it in a not-D1P discord? I would like to read it. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 minute ago, Bacon said:

Is it still up or is it in a not-D1P discord? I would like to read it. 

It's a non-D1P Discord.

[Bacon]

@Anzo Well post it here in a spoiler box!

[Anzo]

7 minutes ago, Bacon said:

@Anzo Well post it here in a spoiler box!

Standby 

 

Spoiler

Rey is a Palpatine 

 

So the emperor has been sort of a puppet this whole time, on Exegen this sith planet, he is hooked up to this machine that is constantly being tended to by sith acolytes. His body is all mangled and hooked up to a machine. 
 

Well, since he died I mean. He created snoke, they show a machine with clone snokes  like Rei from Neon Genesis Evangelion.
 

So the Emperor has been pulling the strings ever since the end of ROTJ. He started the seeds of the First Order.
 

The very first scene is Kylo finding a sith way finder holocron and going to that planet. He wants to kill the emperor but the emperor persuades him that he needs Rey.
 

The “Force Time” mechanic set up between Rey and Kylo is used a lot, as is the force projecting that Luke does.
 

Rey fights him on the death star like we’ve seen in the trailers. Kylo is about to kill her but Leia uses the force to Reach out to him, he gets distracted, Rey stabs him. That force out reach kills Leia. It is shown in an earlier scene however that Rey has learned how to “Force Heal” living things, so as Kylo is dying, from a saber wound, she heals him.
 

Earlier Kylo says that he offered her his hand before (in TLJ) but she didn’t take it, that he saw in a vision that she would take it and they would rule the galaxy together after killing the emperor.
 

So after she heals him she says “I would take your hand, Ben’s hand” and leaves.

 

That shakes Kylo, he then has a “force memory” of Han Solo of the scene between them in TFA, but it works out differently when Ben “comes back” he throws off the Kylo then mantle, chucks his saber into the ocean  

 

Might sound dumb on paper but it was perhaps my favorite thing about this movie.

 

So later, Rey goes to exegen alone to confront the emperor alone. He tells her though that by striking him down his spirit and the spirit of all the sith will transfer to her because she is doing it in anger she will become the new emperor.
 

Ben follows, he is confronted by the Knights but doesn’t have a saber so is getting beat up bad. Rey, with the emperor, fights the temptation to kill him but instead feels Kylo is near and “Force Times” or “force faxes” him Luke’s saber while she pulls out Leia’s. He then kills all the Knights and joins her.

 

It was set up earlier that their connection via force timing is really strong now and they can pass objects back and forth, fight each other physically when in different locations. It is believable set up tbh.
 

Anyway, the emperor is defeated in an cool way but Rey totes dies in the process. Ben has been knocked down a pit during the fight but comes back up later. He sees Rey dead, he uses the force heal power to bring her back. They embrace, kiss and then Ben dies and his body disappears like Luke’s did. So he is gone gone.

 

Yeah, but this is called Rise of Skywalker right? She goes to Tatooine to Luke’s original home, buries Luke and Leia’s sabers there, a random woman walks by and asks who she is. “I’m Rey.” “Rey who?”

 

She looks over in the distance and sees Luke and Leia Force Ghosts smiling at her. “Rey Skywalker”. Movie ends.

 

[Kal-El814]

I’ve not seen it yet nor read any spoilers.

 

But taking a look at the impressions here and some of the reactions to The Mandalorian... it’s really strange to me that so many people want things to have such a solid trajectory. The Mandalorian should be going SOMEWHERE. The sequel trilogy is problematic because not everything was plotted IN ADVANCE.

 

And it sure seems like that kind of mentality is driving a lot of what happened in Rise of Skywalker.

 

Which is so bizarre to me because the most beloved Star Wars movie, Empire, generally ignores ALL of those impulses and it asks the audience to take a TREMENDOUS amount on faith. I feel it’s largely successful because of that. It sure seems like JJ felt compelled to put a bow on things and “end the saga,” which feels like such a weird take for a property that’s obviously going to continue.

 

19 minutes ago, Bacon said:

But the real blame for everything falls to Disney for their hodgepodge directors and writers. Really should have made sure it followed someone's "vision" instead of whatever this is. 

For the billionth but not the last time... The OT had a hodgepodge of directors and writers. The prequels did not.

 

This notion really needs to die.

[Bacon]

4 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

For the billionth but not the last time... The OT had a hodgepodge of directors and writers. The prequels did not.

 

This notion really needs to die.

but wasn't the story all Lucas? Like, maybe he wasn't the writer, but it was all his stuff. It all came from his idea. Whereas the ST has basically no base idea. Or am I wrong about this too? I knew Lucas wasn't the director on ESB, but I didn't know that even the third move was someone else. 

[Anzo]

@Baconsee my edit. 
 

@SFLUFAN might want to update the title. It is spoiler tagged but contains MASSIVE spoilers. 

[Guest]

I will say with the Mandalorian, the show seemed to be going somewhere with its plot and then turned into something else. I accept that it’s something else now

 

8 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

For the billionth but not the last time... The OT had a hodgepodge of directors and writers. The prequels did not.

 

This notion really needs to die.

Bless you.

 

Also, the MCU. As “master planned” as people think the MCU was, Feige takes things in a few movie chunks and the through-line from Ironman to Endgame changed massively along the way.

[CayceG]

I'll also agree with Kal on those points. 

 

People want XYZ out of this movie/trilogy/etc. I read some spoilers on Reddit and people were going ape shit over something they wanted that didn't happen in the movie. And my reaction to that was... I was just perplexed at why they wanted it in the first place. 

 

To Kal's point, I think that speaks to why. We have a nostalgia for the OT because we know its trajectory and how it ends. We can quote the lines and know the plot by heart. I think even with the Prequels, we knew the way it would wind up. The execution was abysmal and that's why we drag it. But with a brand new story and a brand new plot, it's honestly new territory for the entire series. Fans really only know what they THINK should happen. And when those thoughts and assumptions are subverted (as they should be), people are disappointed and lash out. 

 

In short, we need to take these movies as they are--stripped of our assumptions of what should and shouldn't happen or be included. I really think we'll enjoy it a lot more that way. 

[Bacon]

3 minutes ago, Anzo said:

@Baconsee my edit. 

Maybe it will play out better on screen, but omg ew that is all just gross and I don't like it. 

[skillzdadirecta]

10 hours ago, Anzo said:

I think this will end up in the 70’s on RT. I enjoyed it but there are some problems with it narratively and some major leaps to explain stuff. 
 

Also, I got to be on the “red” carpet in my executioner trooper, got a photo with JJ Abrams  and shake his hand, I exchanged pleasantries with Josh Gad as we both entered the men’s room, Merry and Pippin were 3 rows behind me, as was Snap Wexley. I was within 5 ft of Spielberg at one point, was in the Dolby theater two rows back so got to see the presentation pre-show up close and personal. What an incredible experience! 
 

 

This is EXACTLY what I was worried about. JJ bending over backwards for "fan-service"... (If that's what you're alluding to.

[elbobo]

33 minutes ago, Anzo said:

Standby 

 

  Hide contents

Rey is a Palpatine 

 

So the emperor has been sort of a puppet this whole time, on Exegen this sith planet, he is hooked up to this machine that is constantly being tended to by sith acolytes. His body is all mangled and hooked up to a machine. 
 

Well, since he died I mean. He created snoke, they show a machine with clone snokes  like Rei from Neon Genesis Evangelion.
 

So the Emperor has been pulling the strings ever since the end of ROTJ. He started the seeds of the First Order.
 

The very first scene is Kylo finding a sith way finder holocron and going to that planet. He wants to kill the emperor but the emperor persuades him that he needs Rey.
 

The “Force Time” mechanic set up between Rey and Kylo is used a lot, as is the force projecting that Luke does.
 

Rey fights him on the death star like we’ve seen in the trailers. Kylo is about to kill her but Leia uses the force to Reach out to him, he gets distracted, Rey stabs him. That force out reach kills Leia. It is shown in an earlier scene however that Rey has learned how to “Force Heal” living things, so as Kylo is dying, from a saber wound, she heals him.
 

Earlier Kylo says that he offered her his hand before (in TLJ) but she didn’t take it, that he saw in a vision that she would take it and they would rule the galaxy together after killing the emperor.
 

So after she heals him she says “I would take your hand, Ben’s hand” and leaves.

 

That shakes Kylo, he then has a “force memory” of Han Solo of the scene between them in TFA, but it works out differently when Ben “comes back” he throws off the Kylo then mantle, chucks his saber into the ocean  

 

Might sound dumb on paper but it was perhaps my favorite thing about this movie.

 

So later, Rey goes to exegen alone to confront the emperor alone. He tells her though that by striking him down his spirit and the spirit of all the sith will transfer to her because she is doing it in anger she will become the new emperor.
 

Ben follows, he is confronted by the Knights but doesn’t have a saber so is getting beat up bad. Rey, with the emperor, fights the temptation to kill him but instead feels Kylo is near and “Force Times” or “force faxes” him Luke’s saber while she pulls out Leia’s. He then kills all the Knights and joins her.

 

It was set up earlier that their connection via force timing is really strong now and they can pass objects back and forth, fight each other physically when in different locations. It is believable set up tbh.
 

Anyway, the emperor is defeated in an cool way but Rey totes dies in the process. Ben has been knocked down a pit during the fight but comes back up later. He sees Rey dead, he uses the force heal power to bring her back. They embrace, kiss and then Ben dies and his body disappears like Luke’s did. So he is gone gone.

 

Yeah, but this is called Rise of Skywalker right? She goes to Tatooine to Luke’s original home, buries Luke and Leia’s sabers there, a random woman walks by and asks who she is. “I’m Rey.” “Rey who?”

 

She looks over in the distance and sees Luke and Leia Force Ghosts smiling at her. “Rey Skywalker”. Movie ends.

 

 

holy crap this sounds like a mess 

[Anzo]

8 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

This is EXACTLY what I was worried about. JJ bending over backwards for "fan-service"... (If that's what you're alluding to.

I was mostly referring to the new plot points but I guess some things could be what you said. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

 

 

[Anzo]

1 minute ago, SFLUFAN said:

 

Yup, it is peak JJ. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

The most recent tweets I've posted are from a crtic's screening that just let out and they are night and day from those of last night.

 

 

[Kal-El814]

35 minutes ago, Bacon said:

but wasn't the story all Lucas? Like, maybe he wasn't the writer, but it was all his stuff. It all came from his idea. Whereas the ST has basically no base idea. Or am I wrong about this too? I knew Lucas wasn't the director on ESB, but I didn't know that even the third move was someone else. 

It wasn’t all Lucas. It was him in broad strokes, but he had MUCH more control over the prequels than he did the originals. And don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that having “it all” planned from jump is necessarily UNhelpful, it’s just not anywhere near as necessary as people seem to think.

 

Vader took orders in A New Hope from someone of near equivalent rank to people he’s casually killing on conference calls in Empire. There was an obvious love triangle set up in Empire between Han, Luke, and Leia. A decent amount of dialog in Jedi is there ONLY to retcon what Obi-Wan said in A New Hope.

 

Nothing from TFA that TLJ “ignores” is anywhere near as egregious as stuff we just take for granted from the OT.

[CitizenVectron]

I predict a RT (critic) score between 75 and 85.

[Kal-El814]

47 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

I will say with the Mandalorian, the show seemed to be going somewhere with its plot and then turned into something else. I accept that it’s something else now

That is completely fair. I’d wager there will be a hook leading into season 2 and it’s hard to say, “the show is mainly a serial drama,” when 3/8 of it are going to be “plot” episodes.