The Weird Rise of the ‘Post-Left’

[MarSolo]

I have a friend who’s so far left that his stance on the upcoming election is that the only difference between Trump and Biden is that Trump at least “gave money to the hood once”.

 

He was referring to the money people got during the pandemic, you know, that thing that killed millions of people. That was cool.

[SuperSpreader]

2 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

I have a friend who’s so far left that his stance on the upcoming election is that the only difference between Trump and Biden is that Trump at least “gave money to the hood once”.

 

He was referring to the money people got during the pandemic, you know, that thing that killed millions of people. That was cool.

 

This is the worst type. The ones that see Biden and Trump as somewhat equal choices. 

[finaljedi]

7 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

I just want to note that Bill Maher wasn’t “left behind” as liberals progressed further to the left, he actively moved to the right and contradicts past stances that he once held. He also probably has brain worms from the amount of COVID he’s had.
He did a “New Rules” segment like a decade ago telling Republicans to stfu about movies and how they’re a work of fiction and to not take them seriously, now he bitches about the Barbie movie because “there are women on the Mattel board of directors so it’s not a patriarchy like in the movie!”.

 

That's been happening with a number of the "left behind by the left" types.  It made me think of Star Wars Episode 3 where Anakin misjudged the situation, murdered Mace Windu, and then went on to murdering children, because in for a penny in for a pound I guess.

 

The irritating ones are the ones who do the whole "I'm still a liberal, I don't like pollution and believe in single payer" before launching into some bigoted old timey shit.

[stepee]

1 hour ago, MarSolo said:

I have a friend who’s so far left that his stance on the upcoming election is that the only difference between Trump and Biden is that Trump at least “gave money to the hood once”.

 

He was referring to the money people got during the pandemic, you know, that thing that killed millions of people. That was cool.

 

But there was a pandemic stimulus payment under Biden as well!

[TUFKAK]

8 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

But there was a pandemic stimulus payment under Biden as well!

But Trump had his signature on the checks therefore Trump did it.

[Jwheel86]

5 hours ago, SuperSpreader said:

 

I don't think we needed to accept anything. But I think making a public mockery of it was too far. I don't agree with it but it seemed over the top response wise. Like let's make an example out of this one because it doesn't actually address any systemic issues and it's tabloid fun. I feel like the response itself was racist too. Like what she did was weird and wrong but there was a little bit of "lmao someone would actually want to be black" tinge to it. Like if a black woman acts white she's refined, but the other way around is unacceptable because black culture itself is not accepted. I dunno, everyone sucks. 

 

Wasn't most of the criticism from black people themselves upset she was claiming to be experiencing the same oppression? In the disability community those with body integrity identity disorder (BIID) are rejected hard because many feel it is an insult to the true experience of whatever disability they identify with. If I'm upstairs in a burning building, I am completely reliant on others to carry me out, but if someone with BIID is in the same situation, they'll get up out of the wheelchair and walk down the stairs (those with BIID in wheelchairs somehow always identify as a T-4 Para, a pretty simple to manage disability, even then they'll feel their ass hurt and aren't at risk of dying from a pressure sore). 

[SuperSpreader]

11 minutes ago, Jwheel86 said:

 

Wasn't most of the criticism from black people themselves upset she was claiming to be experiencing the same oppression? In the disability community those with body integrity identity disorder (BIID) are rejected hard because many feel it is an insult to the true experience of whatever disability they identify with. If I'm upstairs in a burning building, I am completely reliant on others to carry me out, but if someone with BIID is in the same situation, they'll get up out of the wheelchair and walk down the stairs (those with BIID in wheelchairs somehow always identify as a T-4 Para, a pretty simple to manage disability, even then they'll feel their ass hurt and aren't at risk of dying from a pressure sore). 

 

I don't remember the details tbh anymore. Like I 100% agree that she was wrong, but I felt amongst white people some missed the point/got the wrong wires mixed. 

[SuperSpreader]

Looked up BIID, wtffff

[TUFKAK]

I think we need to be careful about employing biological reductionist arguments when discussing identity guys.

 

it’s an incredibly murky area despite any initial discussion reactions we may have. 

Using race, I’ve referenced the moment me and my fiancé were in Tunisia and discussing race and oppression and had to remind her that in that place nobody sees her as an oppressed minority as she was “sitting in the resort next to me.”
 

Also I just looked up biid and I may have found my line but that’s my initial reaction I’ll definitely have to research more.

[SuperSpreader]

6 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said:

 

I don't remember the details tbh anymore. Like I 100% agree that she was wrong, but I felt amongst white people some missed the point/got the wrong wires mixed. 

 

One more thing on this actually, i was watching tiktok and I guess there are black people who have some small amount of indigenous blood and will wear headdresses, and the indigenous community completely rejects them and is offended they are wearing their tribal garments without being integrated into society. Black people argue that they had their culture ripped from them and it's the only thing they have close, indigenous people see it as massively offensive. 

[Jwheel86]

57 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said:

Looked up BIID, wtffff

 

52 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

Also I just looked up biid and I may have found my line but that’s my initial reaction I’ll definitely have to research more.

 

Yeah, they're fun to run into online. I have no doubt they're mentally ill but everyone I ran into online has turned out to be a massive con artist and emotionally manipulative. A lot of the anger is in part because a lot of disabled people struggle to accept their disability due to the social limitations and therefore are upset someone would want that for themselves, but also the idea that they might access extremely limited disability services and accommodations.

[Spork3245]

3 hours ago, MarSolo said:

I gave up on Bill Maher much later than I should have. I finally caved when he did that interview with Elon Musk and I swore he was about to get on his knees and blow the guy in front of the audience.

 

There used to at least be a decent conversation on there with the panel more often than not, but the past few years he just fills the panel with people who agree with him on 80-90% of issues so it's just an echo chamber for him. If you thought the Musk interview was bad, go watch the one he had with DeSantis a few weeks ago.

[Signifyin(g)Monkey]

 

 

1 hour ago, Jwheel86 said:

 

Wasn't most of the criticism from black people themselves upset she was claiming to be experiencing the same oppression? In the disability community those with body integrity identity disorder (BIID) are rejected hard because many feel it is an insult to the true experience of whatever disability they identify with. If I'm upstairs in a burning building, I am completely reliant on others to carry me out, but if someone with BIID is in the same situation, they'll get up out of the wheelchair and walk down the stairs (those with BIID in wheelchairs somehow always identify as a T-4 Para, a pretty simple to manage disability, even then they'll feel their ass hurt and aren't at risk of dying from a pressure sore). 

I found an interesting aspect of the arguments that unfolded was the way the criticisms of Dolezal echoed the arguments gender-critical feminists have leveled against the idea of accepting transgender identities—a lot of them centered around concerns about who should be able to claim the identity of a historically oppressed group. (and thus what constitutes ‘belonging’ to this group, etc.)

 

Those parallels don’t have any bearing on the validity of the arguments, of course, (I don’t have a position on the matter; I’m still thinking through it myself) but their existence suggested, to me, that it could be a potential locus of conflict in the future, as more and more once well-defined identities become more fluid and unsettled.

[CitizenVectron]

22 minutes ago, Jwheel86 said:

 

 

Yeah, they're fun to run into online. I have no doubt they're mentally ill but everyone I ran into online has turned out to be a massive con artist and emotionally manipulative. A lot of the anger is in part because a lot of disabled people struggle to accept their disability due to the social limitations and therefore are upset someone would want that for themselves, but also the idea that they might access extremely limited disability services and accommodations.

 

I'm fairly ignorant on this issue, but I do remember reading some years ago about some people in the deaf community being divided on their children being able to hear, and if they should have the right to decide if their children would be deaf, as otherwise they wouldn't be a part of it with them. I was...deeply uncomfortable with the discussion.

[Reputator]

My main question is, what is the purpose of identifying as a different race? If that question can be answered, a lot of other questions get answered with it.

[SuperSpreader]

11 minutes ago, Reputator said:

My main question is, what is the purpose of identifying as a different race? If that question can be answered, a lot of other questions get answered with it.

 

In this case it sounds like she was in an abusive strict conservative Christian upbringing and she imagined a different reality for herself where she was actually born into a different situation. A mental health thing rather than a Iggy Azalea or a Kardashian borrowing from black culture. 

[Jwheel86]

10 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

I'm fairly ignorant on this issue, but I do remember reading some years ago about some people in the deaf community being divided on their children being able to hear, and if they should have the right to decide if their children would be deaf, as otherwise they wouldn't be a part of it with them. I was...deeply uncomfortable with the discussion.

 

The deaf community is wild. It was more should their also deaf kids have hearing implants, not making them deaf when they otherwise wouldn't be, which is kind of the same thing I guess? That whole debate is largely due to the community being very insular and as a result developed a very rich culture they don't want to lose with the next generation.

 

Even within my own disability, assuming equal access to newborn screening and genetic treatments, Gen A is probably the last generation to experience type 2 and 3 Spinal Muscular Atrophy, which is amazing but also kind of sad because the SMA community has a very strong culture of adaptation. Is that loss justification for denying treatment, absolutely not. 

[SuperSpreader]

There's definitely some weaboos in the gaming community, where do they fit in to this? I think it's a little racist but 🤷‍♂️

[CitizenVectron]

3 minutes ago, Jwheel86 said:

 

The deaf community is wild. It was more should their also deaf kids have hearing implants, not making them deaf when they otherwise wouldn't be, which is kind of the same thing I guess? That whole debate is largely due to the community being very insular and as a result developed a very rich culture they don't want to lose with the next generation.

 

Even within my own disability, assuming equal access to newborn screening and genetic treatments, Gen A is probably the last generation to experience type 2 and 3 Spinal Muscular Atrophy, which is amazing but also kind of sad because the SMA community has a very strong culture of adaptation. Is that loss justification for denying treatment, absolutely not. 

 

Thanks for the insight! My own wife is partly rejected by some in the her community, unfortunately, because of modern treatments. She has MS, but was fortunate to receive the most powerful treatment early on, which has basically halted her progression. She lost the ability to walk unaided after a few relapses, but her Alemtuzumab treatment (chemo) has stopped all new lesions and relapses for 5+ years now. She is able to walk unaided again, and there are no outwards signs she has/had MS. She still has some invisible symptoms such as extreme fatigue due to existing damage, however, so she has a disabled placard for when she needs it...but some don't agree that this qualifies her, even within the MS community. There are times we use it because she barely has the energy to walk (though outwardly looks "normal") and we get dirty looks from the public.

 

While most people who are already far along the EDSS scale are happy for the younger generations and how modern treatments are almost able to completely halt MS for some...others are not as kind, unfortunately, whether that is out of jealousy or anything else.

[Greatoneshere]

13 hours ago, TUFKAK said:

On cultural things, I’m more willing to accept shades of grey. I’ll use porn as an example, I believe porn should remain legal but it absolutely should be regulated due to the very societal harm it does cause so I can accept that not everyone will share my acceptance of the topic and I’m not sure where the line is on allowing expression and consumption vs regulating for the public good but it exists somewhere for sure.

 

 

4 hours ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

Well the edgy online gen z weirdos equate many forms of healthy sexual activity with abuse and too much skin in a photo with porn etc etc in a way that previous generation’s online weirdos don’t. It’s something to side eye for the time being but it could become a problem. 

 

Yeah, this is one of the areas I'm driving at that you guys are getting into (and I'm all for regulation, but keep it legal). Like this "no porn" stance and sex scenes in films violate fictional characters' consent, etc. seems to be a troubling and growing issue. I can imagine sexually maladjusted Gen Z teens turning into 40 year olds who are super prudish and turn that into policy can't be a good thing. I just don't get why they're so uncomfortable with it all. It's bad enough that even in a mainstream movie like Jennifer Lawrence's recent No Hard Feelings they make fun of it (the scene is she's trying to find a teenage boy at a party amongst the bedrooms upstairs but as she opens the different rooms instead of finding people having sex she just finds Gen Z doing things like looking at their phones or playing board games and shit). I just see this kind of stuff and feel like about these people on the left who hate "violent" video games, sex, porn, aggressive content, controversial content, drinking, partying, etc. as:

 

[Jwheel86]

20 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Yeah, this is one of the areas I'm driving at that you guys are getting into (and I'm all for regulation, but keep it legal). Like this "no porn" stance and sex scenes in films violate fictional characters' consent, etc. seems to be a troubling and growing issue. I can imagine sexually maladjusted Gen Z teens turning into 40 year olds who are super prudish and turn that into policy can't be a good thing. I just don't get why they're so uncomfortable with it all. It's bad enough that even in a mainstream movie like Jennifer Lawrence's recent No Hard Feelings they make fun of it (the scene is she's trying to find a teenage boy at a party amongst the bedrooms upstairs but as she opens the different rooms instead of finding people having sex she just finds Gen Z doing things like looking at their phones or playing board games and shit). I just see this kind of stuff and feel like about these people on the left who hate "violent" video games, sex, porn, aggressive content, controversial content, drinking, partying, etc. as:

 

 

Did this exist before COVID?

[Greatoneshere]

5 minutes ago, Jwheel86 said:

Did this exist before COVID?

 

Yeah, like I said it goes back to the Lieberman/Gore days of the 1990's, but it definitely must have gotten worse, particularly with Gen Z, during Covid. You see them say things like a 3 hour hot shower is better than sex and things like that and I'm completely puzzled. Feels like Gen Z needs to broaden their horizons but this permeates every generation, I know many prudish, boring Millenials who have only gotten more conservative as they've gotten older and had families but still insist they are liberal when they live like conservatives.

[SuperSpreader]

14 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

, I know many prudish, boring Millenials who have only gotten more conservative as they've gotten older and had families but still insist they are liberal when they live like conservatives.

 

I don't think you have to be into hotwife culture or something to be a liberal. It's ok to be personally conservative but accepting and not judgemental of others. I basically live like a conservative white man, I am even trying to retire by ~55 and have plans for it financially.

[GeneticBlueprint]

1 hour ago, SuperSpreader said:

 

I don't think you have to be into hotwife culture or something to be a liberal. It's ok to be personally conservative but accepting and not judgemental of others. I basically live like a conservative white man, I am even trying to retire by ~55 and have plans for it financially.

I resonate with this and similar sentiments expressed in this thread. I’m pretty conservative personally in my way of being. Probably a byproduct of the religion I grew up in. Wouldn’t dream of imposing my lifestyle on others though.

[Jason]

1 hour ago, SuperSpreader said:

I don't think you have to be into hotwife culture or something to be a liberal. It's ok to be personally conservative but accepting and not judgemental of others. I basically live like a conservative white man, I am even trying to retire by ~55 and have plans for it financially.

 

If this zoomer perception of sex being inherently abusive is widespread they're gonna want to impose that on everyone since you can't just let rampant abuse happen. 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

1 hour ago, SuperSpreader said:

 

I don't think you have to be into hotwife culture or something to be a liberal. It's ok to be personally conservative but accepting and not judgemental of others. I basically live like a conservative white man, I am even trying to retire by ~55 and have plans for it financially.

 

2 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

I resonate with this and similar sentiments expressed in this thread. I’m pretty conservative personally in my way of being. Probably a byproduct of the religion I grew up in. Wouldn’t dream of imposing my lifestyle on others though.

Basically same for me. 

[marioandsonic]

Since we were talking about PragerU earlier:

 

How the conservative content-maker PragerU courted GOP officials to get its videos into public schools

WWW.NBCNEWS.COM

---

PragerU is known for its right-wing web videos. In recent months, education officials in four states have helped get a line of cartoon videos and...

 

[TUFKAK]

10 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

 

Basically same for me. 

We can fix that.

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, SuperSpreader said:

 

I don't think you have to be into hotwife culture or something to be a liberal. It's ok to be personally conservative but accepting and not judgemental of others. I basically live like a conservative white man, I am even trying to retire by ~55 and have plans for it financially.

 

20 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

I resonate with this and similar sentiments expressed in this thread. I’m pretty conservative personally in my way of being. Probably a byproduct of the religion I grew up in. Wouldn’t dream of imposing my lifestyle on others though.

 

18 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Basically same for me. 

 

Being fiscally responsible is not conservative, that's a progressive value (see Bernie Sanders).  And I'm totally with you guys - I'm speaking to the ones who do want to impose that lifestyle on art and culture, etc. They exist, and Gen Z seems to be adding to it hard. Remember, Joseph Lieberman and Tipper Gore were Democrats and tried to legislate morality police type stuff from the left, not the right.

 

19 minutes ago, Jason said:

If this zoomer perception of sex being inherently abusive is widespread they're gonna want to impose that on everyone since you can't just let rampant abuse happen. 

 

This is exactly the kind of thing I'm worried about (amongst other things) with this "group" on the left that exists and is growing. If it gets big enough, we have another Lieberman/Gore situation all over again, but conservatives will like it but since it's coming from the left so it will get left wing support too and boom, we got issues. Hence why I bring this group up in this thread.

 

Edit: If you make something "adult" into something "bad" (when it isn't) it will be legislated against and I believe humanity in general is also poorer for it. 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

Also, Dolezal is basically the only case I’ve ever really heard of “transracial” identity, but it just seems pretty cringey with a white woman claiming to be Black and acting like she’s had the “Black experience.” Seems a bit too much like extreme cultural appropriation to me. 

[stepee]

Personally I’m more excited to see more people being accepted for who they are without having to pretend to be someone else and what further steps will be taken for equality in general in the future than I am concerned over doom and gloom due to some  niche online weirdo stuff

[GeneticBlueprint]

Trumpism was niche online weirdo stuff until it wasn’t. 

[stepee]

1 minute ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

Trumpism was niche online weirdo stuff until it wasn’t. 

 

Was it? It was pretty much mainstream republican stuff since forever, just covered up better I guess. But it’s pretty much all standard fare.

[stepee]

Any repression from some big anti sex movement or whatever would work itself out anyway as the type of contrarian pushing that would no longer be interested if it got too popular and the next generation would just push back against it

[Fizzzzle]

29 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Also, Dolezal is basically the only case I’ve ever really heard of “transracial” identity, but it just seems pretty cringey with a white woman claiming to be Black and acting like she’s had the “Black experience.” Seems a bit too much like extreme cultural appropriation to me. 

It's kind of a weird dichotomy that to dismantle racism we have to accept that race is a social construct, but at a certain point the social construct becomes real and we have to deal with the effects of that reality.

 

Like, there's a spectrum between "I don't see color" and "Rachel Dolezal" and we need to land somewhere at like a 6 on that spectrum.