Microsoft Jason Schreier: 343 Industries Is All But Starting From Scratch with Halo

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

The Microsoft Studio Behind Halo Franchise Is All But Starting From Scratch

 

Quote

 

Since Halo Infinite was released, fans had assumed that in addition to new multiplayer modes, 343 was working on new content for the story. But that wasn't the case, according to the people familiar with the situation. Developers were making prototypes in the Unreal Engine and pitching ideas for new Halo games rather than working on new missions for Halo Infinite. Many of those developers were laid off this month and the company isn't actively working on new story content, the people said. A Microsoft spokesman declined to comment.

 

In the eyes of some observers and former 343 employees, the reorganization was a long time coming. The studio, which was founded in 2007 to inherit Halo after Microsoft parted ways with original developer Bungie, has struggled through many challenges, including the release of several polarizing games. Patrick Wren, a former 343 designer, said on Twitter that the job cuts and the state of the Halo franchise overall are the result of "incompetent leadership up top" during Halo Infinite's development that led to "massive stress on those working hard to make Halo the best it can be."

 

 

Key points from the article:

• At least 95 employees laid off (FTE and contractor)
• Tatanka will be in Unreal Engine and may not be (just?) a battle royale
• No new story content for Infinite. New ideas were pitched for new Halo games in Unreal Engine but those folks were also impacted by layoffs

[gamer.tv]

I mean, it really just needs leaving alone for a while then reboot in the future. I feel like between Infinite and the MCC most fans are well taken care of. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

Microsoft is where game franchises die.

 

Even Forza now is so far between releases that they are completely losing momentum.

[best3444]

Ouch. 

[Keyser_Soze]

8 minutes ago, gamer.tv said:

I mean, it really just needs leaving alone for a while then reboot in the future. I feel like between Infinite and the MCC most fans are well taken care of. 

 

Infinite was the reboot. It was 6 years between 5 and Infinite they just failed to achieve their vision for a 10 year Halo platform.

[Mr.Vic20]

Shelve it for 4 years. Highlight other titles. FPS outside of COD are not pulling the numbers they use to anyway. Also, give me a Halo universe RPG already! 

[crispy4000]

40 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Microsoft is where game franchises die.

 

It hasn't been as bad as it was pre-Phil Spencer.  343i and Scalebound are the biggest management failures in his tenure.  It's bad, but not as stupid as closing Lionhead, Ensemble, wasting Rare on Kinect Sports and avatars, etc.

 

I do wonder how hard Bethesda got hit, and where.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

18 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

I do wonder how hard Bethesda got hit, and where.

 

Bethesda didn't get hit particularly hard it seems, mostly in non-development areas.

[AbsolutSurgen]

24 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

It hasn't been as bad as it was pre-Phil Spencer.  343i and Scalebound are the biggest management failures in his tenure.  It's bad, but not as stupid as closing Lionhead, Ensemble, wasting Rare on Kinect Sports and avatars, etc.

 

I do wonder how hard Bethesda got hit, and where.

I don't know.  I don't remember a year as bad as 2022 for Microsoft releases -- despite them having more studios than ever before.

[Bacon]

Remove sprint

Remove ADS on non-scoped weapons

Remove Armor abilities

 

Oh yeah, we Halo 3, baby.

[Ghost_MH]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Even Forza now is so far between releases that they are completely losing momentum.

 

There have been 14 Forza games in the last 18 years. That's probably way too much. I don't understand how this kind of output is sustainable.

[XxEvil AshxX]

Good. They need to take it back to the drawing board and re-imagine Halo.

 

Can you imagine the Library, but it looks like the Ishimura? That's the level of detail Halo should be at by now. Not this cartoon shit.

[AbsolutSurgen]

Just now, Ghost_MH said:

 

There have been 14 Forza games in the last 18 years. That's probably way too much. I don't understand how this kind of output is sustainable.

Forza Motorsport 7 came out in 2017.  Before them, it was biannual.  You can't keep an online community together with 6 years between releases.

[crispy4000]

40 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I don't know.  I don't remember a year as bad as 2022 for Microsoft releases -- despite them having more studios than ever before.

 

2022 probably takes the cake if we're talking games released and not studios mismanaged/shuttered.  But 2017 was close.  Forza 7, Halo Wars 2 and Super Lucky's Tale.  Plus a Phantom Dust port to remind us they cancelled the remake proper.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

6 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

There have been 14 Forza games in the last 18 years. That's probably way too much. I don't understand how this kind of output is sustainable.

 

It's worth noting that the Forza series is split between two studios - Turn 10 Studios for Motorsport and Playground Games for Horizon

[Ghost_MH]

2 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Forza Motorsport 7 came out in 2017.  Before them, it was biannual.  You can't keep an online community together with 6 years between releases.

 

Biannually is still insane. If gamers want that much content, they need to not be asking for new games, but service games instead.

[Ghost_MH]

Just now, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

It's worth noting that the Forza series is split between two studios - Turn 10 Studios for Motorsport and Playground Games for Horizon

 

Yeah, I didn't realize he was talking about Motorsport only, but the entire franchise.

[TwinIon]

A significant restructure and moving away from Slipspace is probably for the best. Infinite had great gameplay and felt like a great foundation to build on, but it seems clear that 343 was just not capable of consistently putting out content in the way that is expected of a high end studio these days. I would even be fine with a Halo game every few years, but it doesn't even seem like they'd be able to do that if they wanted to.

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 minute ago, crispy4000 said:

 

2022 probably takes the cake if we're talking games released and not studios mismanaged/shuttered.  But 2017 was close.  Forza 7, Halo Wars 2 and Super Lucky's Tale.  Plus a Phantom Dust port to remind us that they cancelled the remake proper.

A top-tier release (Forza 7), along with a couple of lower-tier games is miles ahead of 2022.

 

5 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Biannually is still insane. If gamers want that much content, they need to not be asking for new games, but service games instead.

 

5 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Yeah, I didn't realize he was talking about Motorsport only, but the entire franchise.

I should have been more clear.  IMHO, Forza Motorsport and Forza Horizon are two completely different franchises that just happen to share car assets.

Every two years was probably too frequent.  Every 6 years is definitely not frequent enough.  They could probably find something in between.  

[Dodger]

2023 looks pretty shitty for Sony outside of Spider Man 2 and I don't see any doom posting for them. When they have COD as first party starting with the next release, Halo just isn't going to be as important. 

 

Giving Halo a break until end of gen or next gen is fine. And 2023 and beyond is starting to look like where the Xbox has no games meme dies. 

[Remarkableriots]

10 minutes ago, Dodger said:

2023 looks pretty shitty for Sony outside of Spider Man 2 and I don't see any doom posting for them. When they have COD as first party starting with the next release, Halo just isn't going to be as important. 

 

Giving Halo a break until end of gen or next gen is fine. And 2023 and beyond is starting to look like where the Xbox has no games meme dies. 

Final Fantasy 16 is also coming out in 2023, which is way better than anything MS has shown.

[AbsolutSurgen]

According to NPD, Halo 4 was the 3rd best selling game of 2012.  Excluding Minecraft, that was the last time Microsoft/Xbox developed a game that was in the top 10 selling games of the year.  Since NPD started reporting the top 20 best selling games in 2018, the only game in the top 20 was Forza Horizon 5 (20th in 2021).

(Sony has had 7 in the top 10 since then.  Spider-Man, Spider-Man: Miles Morales, God of War, God of War: Ragnarök, Horizon: FW, TLOU: 2,  Ghost of Tsushima)

[Dodger]

3 minutes ago, Remarkableriots said:

Final Fantasy 16 is also coming out in 2023, which is way better than anything MS has shown.

 

After Forspoken I don't have a whole lot of confidence in Square these days. And that's still basically it for the year. I believe Starfield will be better than Final Fantasy 16. 15 really wasn't all that great, and most couldn't stand 13. Final Fantasy hasn't been relavent outside of 14 since 12 anyway. 

 

Hi Fi Rush has been a great start to the year for Microsoft. 

[Ghost_MH]

16 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

According to NPD, Halo 4 was the 3rd best selling game of 2012.  Excluding Minecraft, that was the last time Microsoft/Xbox developed a game that was in the top 10 selling games of the year.  Since NPD started reporting the top 20 best selling games in 2018, the only game in the top 20 was Forza Horizon 5 (20th in 2021).

(Sony has had 7 in the top 10 since then.  Spider-Man, Spider-Man: Miles Morales, God of War, God of War: Ragnarök, Horizon: FW, TLOU: 2,  Ghost of Tsushima)

 

Someone is going to have to explain the value of the NPD chart in today's world. It doesn't include Nintendo's digital sales and, obviously, doesn't include any data about what people are playing on GamePass.

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, Dodger said:

2023 looks pretty shitty for Sony outside of Spider Man 2 and I don't see any doom posting for them.

Hard to say their output is bleak when their release slate has been solid so far this gen.  If they have a down year, it'd be more like the Switch was post-Mario Odyssey.  And if nothing else, they moneyhatted FFXVI as collateral.

 

1 hour ago, Dodger said:

When they have COD as first party starting with the next release, Halo just isn't going to be as important.

 

CoD is always going to be important, but probably not in a way that takes away from their other tentpole shooter franchises.  They've got several of those now.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

1 hour ago, Bacon said:

Remove sprint

Remove ADS on non-scoped weapons

Remove Armor abilities

 

Oh yeah, we Halo 3, baby.

I don’t think any of those were the issues that saw Halo Infinite bleed players rapidly. 
 

 

 

Anyways, I’m still wondering what’s so different from the Xbox and Xbox 360 days to the Xbox One and onward days. Xbox first party felt on fire in the 360 era and since it’s like they’re struggle to even release a full game. Are the reigns too tight? Not tight enough? Are all the good studio leaders gone and it’s just people who failed their way upward? Is it everyone chasing making a single game that can be monetized for 10 years, like Destiny? 
 

I’m feeling like it’s all of it, but especially the last one. Most of the top selling games over the last several years have been designed as if “live service” didn’t exist. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

10 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Someone is going to have to explain the value of the NPD chart in today's world. It doesn't include Nintendo's digital sales and, obviously, doesn't include any data about what people are playing on GamePass.

It certainly doesn't mean much going forward -- given it excludes FTP, mobile and subscriptions.

[crispy4000]

10 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Someone is going to have to explain the value of the NPD chart in today's world. It doesn't include Nintendo's digital sales and, obviously, doesn't include any data about what people are playing on GamePass.

 

Not including Nintendo digital sales gives everyone else a better chance to chart.

 

Games Pass was once said to boost sales, NPDs also reflect how much that is or isn't true for a given franchise.

[Bacon]

20 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

I don’t think any of those were the issues that saw Halo Infinite bleed players rapidly. 

Oh, no, not at all. But I won't play another Halo that plays like the garbage standard modern FPS design. It either needs to go back to classic halo, or become DOOM: Halo

[DPCyric]

7 hours ago, Dodger said:

 

After Forspoken I don't have a whole lot of confidence in Square these days. And that's still basically it for the year. I believe Starfield will be better than Final Fantasy 16. 15 really wasn't all that great, and most couldn't stand 13. Final Fantasy hasn't been relavent outside of 14 since 12 anyway. 

 

Hi Fi Rush has been a great start to the year for Microsoft. 

 

Forspoken is from the FF 15 Team so what did you expect? 

[crispy4000]

10 hours ago, Dodger said:

 

After Forspoken I don't have a whole lot of confidence in Square these days. And that's still basically it for the year. I believe Starfield will be better than Final Fantasy 16. 15 really wasn't all that great, and most couldn't stand 13. Final Fantasy hasn't been relavent outside of 14 since 12 anyway.

 

Final Fantasy changes dramatically with each entry, including the composition of the development team.  13 is the only one I've beaten since the PS1 era... and it's decent.  It's not unbearable.  But it is a combination of really good ideas (mainly to do with the combat system) and really bad ones.

 

Dragon Quest XI on the other hand is brilliant.

[BloodyHell]

15 hours ago, Dodger said:

 

After Forspoken I don't have a whole lot of confidence in Square these days. And that's still basically it for the year. I believe Starfield will be better than Final Fantasy 16. 15 really wasn't all that great, and most couldn't stand 13. Final Fantasy hasn't been relavent outside of 14 since 12 anyway. 

 

Hi Fi Rush has been a great start to the year for Microsoft. 

15 (and forspoken) were made by the same team, and suffered the same flaws. 16 is by a totally different dev team (CBU3) and director (the director of current XIV) who has proven himself over and over again with storytelling, and hired one of the top gameplay experts in the world for 16. I am not worried about that game at all. Im also far more worried about Starfield. It’s been far, far longer since they made a great game. 

[Mr.Vic20]

Also, Forspoken is not the terrible game the "I fear woke people" crowd has made it out to be. It certainly has flaws, but there is plenty of fun to be had playing it. Its price tag on the other hand is quite the bold error! 

[BloodyHell]

14 hours ago, Bacon said:

Oh, no, not at all. But I won't play another Halo that plays like the garbage standard modern FPS design. It either needs to go back to classic halo, or become DOOM: Halo

But Halo Infinite plays like Halo. Thats part of what people praised about it.

[Keyser_Soze]

1 hour ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

Also, Forspoken is not the terrible game the "I fear woke people" crowd has made it out to be. It certainly has flaws, but there is plenty of fun to be had playing it. Its price tag on the other hand is quite the bold error! 

 

Wasn't it the opposite? Like main poc protagonist falling into black stereotypes, getting arrested, etc?

Most people decided based on the demo which wasn't too far off from the actual release.