Eternal Sunshine for America: Senate passes bill to make daylight savings time permanent

[CitizenVectron]

1 hour ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Closest elementary school for my kids is 2.5 miles away, most of that distance being along a major road with no sidewalks. That's too far for any kids. The furthest I ever walked for school was highschool and that was still only a mile. We've designed cities good.

 

How does a city get built with houses 2.5 miles from the nearest school? That's just ridiculous. I suppose it's different here because we don't really have private schools the way the US does, but our schools are built out in subdivisions on a per-population basis, and equally spread apart. In my city we have two divisions (public and catholic...but both are actually public in the sense that they are taxpayer-funded and teach the same curriculum), and I don't think there are any homes more than 1km-1.5km from the nearest school (.62-.93 miles). 

[Jason]

3 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

How does a city get built with houses 2.5 miles from the nearest school? That's just ridiculous. I suppose it's different here because we don't really have private schools the way the US does, but our schools are built out in subdivisions on a per-population basis, and equally spread apart. In my city we have two divisions (public and catholic...but both are actually public in the sense that they are taxpayer-funded and teach the same curriculum), and I don't think there are any homes more than 1km-1.5km from the nearest school (.62-.93 miles). 

 

I just checked my parents' house, and the middle school is only about a bit over half a mile away if you just draw a straight line, but the shortest path there (by car, foot, and bike) is 1.5 miles.

[CitizenVectron]

20 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

I just checked my parents' house, and the middle school is only about a bit over half a mile away if you just draw a straight line, but the shortest path there (by car, foot, and bike) is 1.5 miles.

 

Yeah, I suppose newer suburbs would be the worst in terms of distance-by-foot (or car). The last two neighbourhoods we've lived in were both subdivisions built in the 1960s, but with very different street plans. Our current neighbourhood has quite a few grid-like streets, and it's very easy to get around. Where the walking distance is made too long by a lack of intersections, the city has built paved pedestrian paths (and even a pedestrian bridge over a storm channel/creek). And in this photo there are million dollar homes at the bottom, middle-class homes in the middle, and apartment buildings in the top-right. Very little segregation by income level, which is why we love the area so much. Most infill development involves splitting the lot and then putting in duplex/triplex units, increasing density. In the green square (community centre/fields) there is a water spray park, and in the summer you can tonnes of lower-income families from the apartment blocks hanging out with rich kids from the southern area, etc. Really good community. Schools are yellow, the green is the former-school-turned-community-centre/hockey rink, and the paths are pink:

 

 

Our old neighbourhood was built with many more curved streets and crescents, making pedestrian life more difficult. However, the city has a huge amount of pedestrian paths built between roads, parks and schools, as can be seen (same colours for schools/community centres/paths):

 

 

It was really cool living in that neighbourhood (we lived in the infill condos in the green square, a former schoolyard) because while it was very quiet thanks to the street design, it was also very easy to walk everywhere. Neither community was perfect, but both overall had good walkability, school access, community parks, and lots of stores/services at the edges (and a few small strip malls inside).

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

1 hour ago, LazyPiranha said:

Not to be an even more crotchety old man but does anyone actually have firm numbers saying fewer kids walk to school, or is this all anecdotal stuff?  My school district won’t even give you the option of taking a bus if you’re within a certain perimeter of the school and tons of kids are on their bikes every morning.  

SRTS Guide: The Decline of Walking and Bicycling

GUIDE.SAFEROUTESINFO.ORG

Quote

In 1969, 48 percent of children 5 to 14 years of age usually walked or bicycled to school (The National Center for Safe Routes to School, 2011).

In 2009, 13 percent of children 5 to 14 years of age usually walked or bicycled to school (National Center, 2011).

In 1969, 41 percent of children in grades K–8 lived within one mile of school;

89 percent of these children usually walked or bicycled to school (U.S. Department of Transportation [USDOT], 1972).

In 2009, 31 percent of children in grades K–8 lived within one mile of school;

35 percent of these children usually walked or bicycled to school (National Center, 2011).

Quote

Barrier	Percentage of parents identifying with the barrier
Distance to school:	61.5
Traffic-related danger:	30.4
Weather:	18.6
Crime danger:	11.7
Opposing school policy:	6.0
Other reasons (not identified):	15.0

It’s an old page but with good info

[Ghost_MH]

35 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

How does a city get built with houses 2.5 miles from the nearest school? That's just ridiculous. I suppose it's different here because we don't really have private schools the way the US does, but our schools are built out in subdivisions on a per-population basis, and equally spread apart. In my city we have two divisions (public and catholic...but both are actually public in the sense that they are taxpayer-funded and teach the same curriculum), and I don't think there are any homes more than 1km-1.5km from the nearest school (.62-.93 miles). 

 

I live in a new development neighborhood. A decade ago, this was all state forest. I think they just sort of assumed everyone living out here had cars. There was a charter school built within the last decade to "serve" this neighborhood, but that one is 2.4 miles away and across a bridge that's been on the verge of collapsing for the past twenty years.

 

What's extra dumb is that the closest bus stop is half a mile away. All my kids will be in the same school 2.5 miles from here come September, but my two older kids will be on special needs bus stop they'll get dropped off right in front of my house. Not sure what I'll do with my youngest, but I'm hoping the school won't be dicks about it and just let her ride the same bus her two older siblings will. Seems kind of silly to not just let her ride the same bus that's going to the same place. And if you're randomly wondering why it sounds like they aren't all at the same school right now then that's because my oldest is currently at the second closest school to us which is 3 miles away.

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

How does a city get built with houses 2.5 miles from the nearest school? That's just ridiculous. I suppose it's different here because we don't really have private schools the way the US does, but our schools are built out in subdivisions on a per-population basis, and equally spread apart. In my city we have two divisions (public and catholic...but both are actually public in the sense that they are taxpayer-funded and teach the same curriculum), and I don't think there are any homes more than 1km-1.5km from the nearest school (.62-.93 miles). 

Were my kids in public school, the elementary school they are zoned to is 6.7 miles, the Junior High is 7.4 miles, and 10 miles to the High school.

 

But we live not even 5000 feet from the next district over, and the distances to the schools they would be zoned for if we were on the other side of the line are

 

Elementary: .8 miles

Junior High: .5 miles

High school: 1.1 miles

[Ghost_MH]

3 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Were my kids in public school, the elementary school they are zoned to is 6.7 miles, the Junior High is 7.4 miles, and 10 miles to the High school.

 

But we live not even 5000 feet from the next district over, and the distances to the schools they would be zoned for if we were on the other side of the line are

 

Elementary: .8 miles

Junior High: .5 miles

High school: 1.1 miles

 

I was kind of curious to see if I were in the same boat and was surprised to see there was a school in the next district less than a mile from here...then I noticed Google was being stupid because that distance would require I swim across a river. It's nearly 5 miles away after crossing the nearest bridge.

[TwinIon]

Personally, I'm happy with darker mornings and sun later into the day. It's nice to be able go birding at sunrise and not have to wake up a 5am.

[Jason]

5 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

I was kind of curious to see if I were in the same boat and was surprised to see there was a school in the next district less than a mile from here...then I noticed Google was being stupid because that distance would require I swim across a river. It's nearly 5 miles away after crossing the nearest bridge.

 

I miss the days when Google Maps would do stuff like tell you to kayak across the English Channel.

[CitizenVectron]

55 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Were my kids in public school, the elementary school they are zoned to is 6.7 miles, the Junior High is 7.4 miles, and 10 miles to the High school.

 

But we live not even 5000 feet from the next district over, and the distances to the schools they would be zoned for if we were on the other side of the line are

 

Elementary: .8 miles

Junior High: .5 miles

High school: 1.1 miles

 

That's crazy. I don't know much about school districts in the US—are they controlled by each municipality? Or do you have different school districts within the same municipality? Here we don't refer to them as districts, but rather school divisions, and there is typically one per city (public), and then maybe a second parallel catholic system which is also publicly funded, with the same curriculum. The way it works it my city is that you go to the school you are zoned for, but that's never more than 1-1.5km away. And all schools are equal, as teachers are rotated regularly and are all in one giant union. So my province has something like 30 school divisions, geographically, but all teachers are in one union and have the same pay scales, etc. So all schools are effectively equal, so there is no competition or preferred place for parents to live to get the "best" education for their kid. It works out pretty well. The only time you can go to a different school than the one you live closest to is if you already have siblings going to a different school (i.e. your older sibling went to the closest school but then your family moved). Also, there is free busing provided to all kids that live more than 1.2km (by walking distance) to their school. 

 

So with that system we don't have any "star" schools where genius is cultivated...but we also don't have rundown schools where kids go to just drop out. It's actually a pretty close comparison to the difference between healthcare systems, etc. Our highs are lows are more evened out, for better or worse.

[chakoo]

I love where I currently live because i'm less than 1km (~850m) away from the school. While all Ontario schools are good it still happens to be in the top 20 ranking for schools in the province.

 

-edit-

It's a vast improvement from when I was a kid and went to Jr HS & HS which were 1.7miles & 2.2 miles away (at least for Jr HS I use to walk home a lot with friends) back in the US.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

I live super close to a school, but it’s a private school. If I had kids, I would definitely not send them to the public schools here. Most of them are not known for being nice, safe places of quality learning. 
 

Just checking, the nearest elementary and middle schools are 2.1 miles away from my house and the nearest high school is 4.7 miles. The private academy is 1.1 mile away. 

[Ghost_MH]

33 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

I live super close to a school, but it’s a private school. If I had kids, I would definitely not send them to the public schools here. Most of them are not known for being nice, safe places of quality learning. 
 

Just checking, the nearest elementary and middle schools are 2.1 miles away from my house and the nearest high school is 4.7 miles. The private academy is 1.1 mile away. 

 

Don't even get me started on which public schools are better than others. My oldest isn't going to the best school "near" us because we opted to put him in the best school in the district. That school is fantastic, but that school also doesn't offer the services my middle girl needs. She needs full services for a child with severe autism, so language, speech, feeding, occupational, and physical therapy along with even things like changing her diaper and making sure she doesn't skinny dip in the sink because it's a thing she suddenly thought would be a great idea. We're lucky the closest school to us had those services, because the next closest school with those services is more than twice as far. After that? Clear on the other side of town.

 

We moved here before we learned she was a little different and lucked out. Otherwise, it was going to be quite the commute just for her.

 

I don't understand how a lot of people manage to do it.

[Brick]

Why The U.S. Senate's Plan For Getting Rid Of Daylight Savings Time Actually Sucks

WWW.CRACKED.COM

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We're finally doing something that's long overdue, in the worst way possible!

 

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Brick said:

Why The U.S. Senate's Plan For Getting Rid Of Daylight Savings Time Actually Sucks

WWW.CRACKED.COM

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We're finally doing something that's long overdue, in the worst way possible!

 

 

 

Quote

We should absolutely get rid of the repeated switches into and out of Daylight Savings Time. However, when choosing the time standard to follow going forward, we have two choices: one, time-tested, implemented globally, calculated and designed around the movement of the earth and its rhythms. Two, a fake time zone invented 100 years ago to save money during war, that makes sure people are more likely to spend money on patio drinks during happy hour.

Indeed

[Fizzzzle]

I don't live in the north anymore, so it's not a big deal to me personally at the moment, but the times during the winter bartending when I basically lived entirely at night got a little rough. 

On 3/15/2022 at 4:27 PM, PaladinSolo said:

People asking for standard time all year are insane, what good is a 4:30 am sunrise in the summer, lol.  I start work at 5:45 and the world is mostly asleep at that time as traffic is non-existent, it makes way more sense to have that hour at the end of the day.

 

[CitizenVectron]

On 3/17/2022 at 9:03 AM, sblfilms said:

 

Indeed

 

Honestly I think we should ignore all history and just pick whatever works best now. Some people opposing this move say things like "but noon is when the sun should be directly overhead!" and then nod their heads vigorously. Okay, fine. But noon isn't the best time to have the sun at its peak because most people work indoor jobs during a majority of the daylight hours. So we have two choices if we want more sunlight during non-working hours:

• Change when people start and end work (move it an hour or two earlier)
• Change how we define what time the sun is at the peak (from noon to 1pm or something, like with DST)

It's actually easier to do the latter, which is what this bill would accomplish. Now, there are pros and cons to this. During the winter I think there is no question that DST is better, as much of the northern hemisphere lacks any light after working hours. But in the summer hours you can run into issues with people not getting enough sleep. But, honestly...you'll probably have that anyway. I mean, the sun is up at like 5am in the peak of summer, and sets at 10am. So if you change that to 11pm/6am or 9pm/4am, you're still going to have people not sleeping well.

[Ricofoley]

Put your location and preferred latest sunrise and earliest sunset and get the exact opinion you should have in this debate!

 

Daylight Saving Time Gripe Assistant Tool / Andy Woodruff / Observable

OBSERVABLEHQ.COM

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A handy tool to help make your case when whining about a biannual time change, following earlier explorations of the geography of DST effects. Tip: rotate to landscape mode if you're looking at this on a mobile device. Measuring if—and how much—DST sucks for you While my earlier map was interesting to explore, it leaves too much room for interpretation. You don't have time for that. Your life is too awful because of a lost...

 

[mclumber1]

Cool tool!  

[Ricofoley]

I would be pretty pissed about this, I think, if I lived on the western edge of a time zone, and I gotta figure the fact that the big east coast metro areas, Chicago, and to a lesser extent LA, are all towards the eastern part of a time zone is a big part of why the proposal is permanent DST and not permanent standard time.

 

I feel like if you were really putting some thought into this, instead of doing it all of a sudden as a voice vote where half the Senate apparently didn't know what was going on, you'd use this as an opportunity to also consider re-configuring all the time zones, which were created based around what made sense for the railroads at the time.

[Jason]

44 minutes ago, Ricofoley said:

I would be pretty pissed about this, I think, if I lived on the western edge of a time zone, and I gotta figure the fact that the big east coast metro areas, Chicago, and to a lesser extent LA, are all towards the eastern part of a time zone is a big part of why the proposal is permanent DST and not permanent standard time.

 

I feel like if you were really putting some thought into this, instead of doing it all of a sudden as a voice vote where half the Senate apparently didn't know what was going on, you'd use this as an opportunity to also consider re-configuring all the time zones, which were created based around what made sense for the railroads at the time.

 

In general the places that are still on the western edge of a time zone are in that situation because they're economically tied way more to the time zone they're in than the time zone it would make more sense for them to be in in terms of solar time, right? Like, Detroit should probably be central time zone, but I don't think there's many big population centers that are in the time zone they're in just because it made sense for the railroads 100 years ago.

[Ricofoley]

That's definitely true for why northwestern Indiana is in Central, but I don't know enough the rest of these areas where the lines get really curved to know if they still make sense in every case. Like, does Mountain need to extend into parts of Oregon? I guess it's because they're close to Boise, but if we're gonna do permanent DST, maybe Boise itself would be better off being in Pacific?

[Anathema-]

The next step is completely abolishing time zones.

[Jason]

 

[CitizenVectron]

 My province already uses permanent DST and I enjoy it.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

27 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 My province already uses permanent DST and I enjoy it.

YOU ALREADY HAVE A THREAD

[Jwheel86]

Permanent daylight saving time hits brick wall in House

THEHILL.COM

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More than four months after the Senate unanimously passed a bill to make daylight saving time permanent in the U.S., the measure has hit a brick wall in the House. The main impediments dimming the …

 

[SuperSpreader]