"Why America Sucks at Everything" - David Cross for The Gravel Institute

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

If you ever needed more assurance that the United States of America is a "failed state" - here it is!

 

 

[Brick]

Perhaps at some point America was truly "the greatest country on Earth", but complacency, corruption, and jingoism has kept it from improving the way other countries have continued to improve, and surpass the US in every meaningful way (healthcare, education, infrastructure, quality of life, etc.). 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

7 minutes ago, Brick said:

Perhaps at some point America was truly "the greatest country on Earth", but complacency, corruption, and jingoism has kept it from improving the way other countries have continued to improve, and surpass the US in every meaningful way (healthcare, education, infrastructure, quality of life, etc.). 

 

The US even sucks at the one thing that it should be REALLY good at for all the money it spends on it:  war.

[Brick]

And even intelligence. Seriously how often has the CIA majorly screwed something up? Yet whenever you watch a movie or show dealing with the CIA, they're the best spies. Their track record in real life is not that great. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

8 minutes ago, Brick said:

And even intelligence. Seriously how often has the CIA majorly screwed something up? Yet whenever you watch a movie or show dealing with the CIA, they're the best spies. Their track record in real life is not that great. 

The cia / dod / whatever give props to hollywood (tanks, troops, etc) for free in exchange for editorial power over scripts

[Brick]

43 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

The cia / dod / whatever give props to hollywood (tanks, troops, etc) for free in exchange for editorial power over scripts

 

Oh I'm well aware of that. 

[CitizenVectron]

1 hour ago, Brick said:

And even intelligence. Seriously how often has the CIA majorly screwed something up? Yet whenever you watch a movie or show dealing with the CIA, they're the best spies. Their track record in real life is not that great. 

 

I think the field agents/low level people do their jobs, but then politics happens. Every time there is a big event we always find out later that the CIA or FBI knew about it but it never got passed up to the top.

[Greatoneshere]

America does suck at a lot of things yet people still keep coming to try and immigrate here from pretty much everywhere. So it can't be all bad. 

[Ghost_MH]

10 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

America does suck at a lot of things yet people still keep coming to try and immigrate here from pretty much everywhere. So it can't be all bad. 

 

The US is a great place for wealthy folks. There are two classes of immigrants coming into this country. Those wealthy enough to afford the lawyers needed to navigate this country's byzantine immigration system and those from countries even poorer than America's impoverished.

 

America is working as designed. Who would have thought a country founded on the ideals of wealthy white men enslaving blacks and murdering people of color to loot their lands to retain their power and wealth would turn out to be a country hostile to the poor and/or colored? That class of people have never not run this nation.

[Greatoneshere]

2 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

The US is a great place for wealthy folks. There are two classes of immigrants coming into this country. Those wealthy enough to afford the lawyers needed to navigate this country's byzantine immigration system and those from countries even poorer than America's impoverished.

 

America is working as designed. Who would have thought a country founded on the ideals of wealthy white men enslaving blacks and murdering people of color to loot their lands to retain their power and wealth would turn out to be a country hostile to the poor and/or colored? That class of people have never not run this nation.

 

All very true. Capitalism works so well!

[cusideabelincoln]

There's not fixing it, is there.  The bureaucracy and administration is too big and deeply rooted to easily delete it, especially with "looting leaders" who support these inefficient systems and never choose to help the common person.  

[Ghost_MH]

11 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

There's not fixing it, is there.  The bureaucracy and administration is too big and deeply rooted to easily delete it, especially with "looting leaders" who support these inefficient systems and never choose to help the common person.  

 

Allow me to be uncharacteristically optimistic, with the caveat being that we'll all be either dead or very close by the time it happens.

 

There is only so long this can continue happening with how connected the world is. My kids never lived in a world without 1Gb Internet connections in their home and 4G Internet connections on the road. My oldest, 5, was on a video chat with family across the country the day he was born. There is no way, once the Boomers and Gen X folks die out, that this country can continue to pretend that things are better here than the people my son plays Mario 35 with on the other side of the globe. When he's in middle school, he'll have online friends from countries where there is no such thing as medical debt. He'll go to college and have friends that will be flabbergasted by the prices of our institutions.

 

I just don't see how Americans a generation of two from now will be happy knowing things suck for them compared to everywhere else in the world.

 

That's already happening, but there are still too many people of voting age that didn't learn this at the right age and/or are unwilling to learn it now. The momentum is there.

 

One of two things will happen then, the change will come naturally when the previous generations finally die out or the change will come violently when the previous generations' ideals learn how not to die.

[Greatoneshere]

20 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

Allow me to be uncharacteristically optimistic, with the caveat being that we'll all be either dead or very close by the time it happens.

 

One of two things will happen then, the change will come naturally when the previous generations finally die out or the change will come violently when the previous generations' ideals learn how not to die.

 

I also believe there will be a paradigm shift once the Boomers and Gen Xers die out. You can see it with how different Millennials behave and their deep desire for change compared to the prior two generations.

 

We went though three wars (Gulf War 1, Gulf War 2, Afghanistan), 9/11, two huge, debilitating economic recessions and now a pandemic and we saw how our government repeatedly failed us. We experienced two elections get hijacked (Bush winning in 2000 and Trump winning in 2016 despite losing the popular vote). That's why people like AOC will probably be the dominant future.

 

Then again, you have your Matt Gaetz's and Cawthorne's to counteract as well, sadly.

[Captain Pickle]

58 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Allow me to be uncharacteristically optimistic, with the caveat being that we'll all be either dead or very close by the time it happens.

 

There is only so long this can continue happening with how connected the world is. My kids never lived in a world without 1Gb Internet connections in their home and 4G Internet connections on the road. My oldest, 5, was on a video chat with family across the country the day he was born. There is no way, once the Boomers and Gen X folks die out, that this country can continue to pretend that things are better here than the people my son plays Mario 35 with on the other side of the globe. When he's in middle school, he'll have online friends from countries where there is no such thing as medical debt. He'll go to college and have friends that will be flabbergasted by the prices of our institutions.

 

I just don't see how Americans a generation of two from now will be happy knowing things suck for them compared to everywhere else in the world.

 

That's already happening, but there are still too many people of voting age that didn't learn this at the right age and/or are unwilling to learn it now. The momentum is there.

 

One of two things will happen then, the change will come naturally when the previous generations finally die out or the change will come violently when the previous generations' ideals learn how not to die.

Ok that’s nice. But it probably should have happened by now given how connected We’ve  been

[Ghost_MH]

5 minutes ago, Captain Pickle said:

Ok that’s nice. But it probably should have happened by now given how connected We’ve  been

 

Why would it be when there are still so many people alive and voting that weren't born into such a connected age? The life experience of someone that grew up pre-Internet versus post-Internet is vast. I'm 38, I was a pretty early Internet adopter. I remember buying all that sketchy stuff that littered eBay when they first launched when I was in highschool. My life experience is nothing like my son's. I remembering renting a multitap to play NBA Jam and Bomberman with school buddies when I was in my tweens. My 5 year old is like level 45 in Super Kirby Clash that he plays with other people on the other side of the planet. He Facetime's his aunt to convince her to play Among Us since I won't let him play with strangers.

 

To my son, these people in the other side of the world are just regular friends they've made online. To many Boomers, these people and experiences around the globe aren't really really real to them. It's like the racist uncle that has a black friend that's "one of the good ones", but he doesn't actually know any other black people. Their life experiences are just so small compared to the unimaginable vastness of Russian trolls to Argentinians jajaja-ing.

[Captain Pickle]

6 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Why would it be when there are still so many people alive and voting that weren't born into such a connected age? The life experience of someone that grew up pre-Internet versus post-Internet is vast. I'm 38, I was a pretty early Internet adopter. I remember buying all that sketchy stuff that littered eBay when they first launched when I was in highschool. My life experience is nothing like my son's. I remembering renting a multitap to play NBA Jam and Bomberman with school buddies when I was in my tweens. My 5 year old is like level 45 in Super Kirby Clash that he plays with other people on the other side of the planet. He Facetime's his aunt to convince her to play Among Us since I won't let him play with strangers.

 

To my son, these people in the other side of the world are just regular friends they've made online. To many Boomers, these people and experiences around the globe aren't really really real to them. It's like the racist uncle that has a black friend that's "one of the good ones", but he doesn't actually know any other black people. Their life experiences are just so small compared to the unimaginable vastness of Russian trolls to Argentinians jajaja-ing.

I’m just saying you’re right it’ll probably end in violence. But I’m still baffled by US resistance to health care knowing what everyone else is doing 

[mclumber1]

3 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

turn out to be a country hostile to the poor and/or colored? That class of people have never not run this nation.

 

 

[Ghost_MH]

3 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

 

 

 

This nation is not designed to be run by any one branch of government, mostly for that very reason. Even with all the power Congress has ceded to the executive in recent years, that still holds true. Even then, the power that has been ceded is only whatever power Congress doesn't want to be responsible/held accountable for.

[Zaku3]

1 hour ago, Captain Pickle said:

Ok that’s nice. But it probably should have happened by now given how connected We’ve  been

 

The reason it hasn't is I don't think we are as intelligent as a species as we think. We have access to too much information and it tends to overwhelm normal people causing people to eventually tone stuff out. It's how you can have crazy conspiracies like Q come around. Just a mass of information that is too much to filter causing people to tone out. 

 

As our resident far (but not too far) leftist member another thing is pinning this all on the boomers. Far right positions are wayyyyy more popular with young people then I feel comfortable with. I feel people are starting to feel America is just a giant Ponzi scheme to make the rich richer. Problem is while they are likely to find the answers with Marx. They are likely to find the far right. 

 

As a socialist and an adult minority I do want to leave. My life is pretty comfortable in fairness but if the country does slide into fascism probably wiser to get out. Hopefully it doesn't.

[Anathema-]

The Gravel Institute

[heydude93]

It could've been decent enough here overall by now if not for the cult problem and undereducation en mass that plagues it.

 

 

[Bloodporne]

I really like David Cross so I'll check this out tonight for some killer self-loathing. 

[Kal-El814]

11 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Allow me to be uncharacteristically optimistic, with the caveat being that we'll all be either dead or very close by the time it happens.

 

There is only so long this can continue happening with how connected the world is. My kids never lived in a world without 1Gb Internet connections in their home and 4G Internet connections on the road. My oldest, 5, was on a video chat with family across the country the day he was born. There is no way, once the Boomers and Gen X folks die out, that this country can continue to pretend that things are better here than the people my son plays Mario 35 with on the other side of the globe. When he's in middle school, he'll have online friends from countries where there is no such thing as medical debt. He'll go to college and have friends that will be flabbergasted by the prices of our institutions.

 

I just don't see how Americans a generation of two from now will be happy knowing things suck for them compared to everywhere else in the world.

 

That's already happening, but there are still too many people of voting age that didn't learn this at the right age and/or are unwilling to learn it now. The momentum is there.

 

One of two things will happen then, the change will come naturally when the previous generations finally die out or the change will come violently when the previous generations' ideals learn how not to die.

 

I don’t think this change is going to happen naturally through generational means. Healthcare and tax administration constitute such a large part of the American workforce that gutting those systems is going to create tremendous problems that would need to be proactively addressed and we’re really really bad at that. And conservative media isn’t run by morons, the reason they’re so outwardly xenophobic and condemning of others is because they know the alternative is better for the masses and worse for them. 

 

One of my BILs is a high school teacher in a MA city that’s predominantly not white and there are a lot of Ben Shapiro fans in the senior class. And it’s anecdotal, but I know a lot of people from my last job who interacted daily with people who lived in countries like Croatia we outsourced labor to... they saw what their healthcare costs were like, saw what their quality of life was like, saw what its education system was like... and would routinely call out Croatia as a shithole and say they’d rather live in Lynn than in Split because taxes...

 

 

And no shots at Lynn but give me a fucking break. They knew that we’re paying the people at this company a wage that lets them support multi children families on one income and some of the domestic folks slagging them couldn’t weather a month out of work, have multiple incomes needed to sustain their lifestyle, are carrying significant school or medical debt... and again these were people younger than me, and I’m 40. Stockholm syndrome is strong.

 

And when I look at the institutional changes that came out of the BLM protests... I don’t know. There aren’t a lot of them. Video of agents of the state killing people inspired as much ink to be spilled about the looting as the actual killings. I think of the mass shootings that only stopped because of the pandemic and the collective NOTHING that’s been able to be accomplished in response to kids getting gunned down. Not only the fact that noting institutional has changed, but the fact that the voices of people who DON’T BELIEVE THEY HAPPENED get constantly amplified is hugely problematic.

 

So I dunno. What’s a kid growing up with connects in other countries supposed to so? A majority of Americans favor a single payer system. How’s that gonna happen? Almost every American favors universal background checks for gun purchases. How’s that gonna happen? I appreciate that some things feel impossible up until the point that they happen but I don’t think that we’re going to age out of accepting a shitty healthcare system. 

[cusideabelincoln]

19 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Allow me to be uncharacteristically optimistic, with the caveat being that we'll all be either dead or very close by the time it happens.

 

There is only so long this can continue happening with how connected the world is. My kids never lived in a world without 1Gb Internet connections in their home and 4G Internet connections on the road. My oldest, 5, was on a video chat with family across the country the day he was born. There is no way, once the Boomers and Gen X folks die out, that this country can continue to pretend that things are better here than the people my son plays Mario 35 with on the other side of the globe. When he's in middle school, he'll have online friends from countries where there is no such thing as medical debt. He'll go to college and have friends that will be flabbergasted by the prices of our institutions.

 

I just don't see how Americans a generation of two from now will be happy knowing things suck for them compared to everywhere else in the world.

 

That's already happening, but there are still too many people of voting age that didn't learn this at the right age and/or are unwilling to learn it now. The momentum is there.

 

One of two things will happen then, the change will come naturally when the previous generations finally die out or the change will come violently when the previous generations' ideals learn how not to die.

 

That would be great, but I definitely leaning pessimistically about this despite the fact I myself went through what you described.  Growing up in a small, rural, Mid-Western town I had no casual exposure to any culture that wasn't of the white redneck variety, not until we got the Internet when I was a teen and then I found diversity on the IGN message boards, of all places.  I can definitely say interacting with that community made me more accepting and open minded.  But I don't think that's common, and even if there are better ways today to expose differing peoples, because we have audio and video interactions, we also have to contend with the weaponized capitalistic nature of the ad-tracking and algorithm-driven "personalized Internet experience" that can lead people to be stuck in the same bubble/echo chamber and counter any progressiveness.  

 

Systems like that are in place everywhere in our society to keep the status quo, and as @Kal-El814 demonstrated they are deep-rooted.  

 

I can only hold onto a small amount of optimism that, as the remnants of the Cold War era fade away and die off, natural change will occur.

[cusideabelincoln]

Maybe I saw this video here, or it was a random recommendation, but it's a nice companion to the OT:

 

 

 

[69los]

Just paraphrasing from the vid above, "You won't hear about this. It's not the first time the US decided to not talk about being beaten by the Vietnamese."