General Gaming Ex-BioWare Devs Reflect On Mass Effect 3's Controversial Ending

[SaysWho?]

Ex-BioWare Devs Reflect On Mass Effect 3's Controversial Ending

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It seems that Mass Effect 3 developers have pretty mixed impressions of the series' famous ending - just like the fans who played it.

 

Jay Turner, ME2/3 writer:

 

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“When I played the game, I was pretty OK with the ending, since I considered the whole of Mass Effect 3 to be the ending for the trilogy, but after I replayed it and realized that my decisions only really changed the color of the explosions in the ending cutscene, I was pretty upset.”

 

Mass Effect 3 senior gameplay designer Patrick Moran

 

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“A good number of the Mass Effect team pushed back against the ending,” Moran explains. “I remember reading the story beats, [and] getting upset because it felt like all the decisions I made no longer mattered. I sent an email off challenging the ending and received no reply. The Mass Effect team was run like a Navy ship, with strict reporting lines, scopes of responsibility, and team leaders who had been there awaiting their turn for promotion for years and years. You followed orders and tried to not be too squeaky or uppity. The Dragon Age team was definitely more of a pirate ship at the time.”

 

Mass Effect 2 and 3 writer Chris Hepler

 

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“The ending relies on space magic, and the lead writer, lead gameplay designer, and executive producer all just embraced that and owned it from the get-go,” Mass Effect 2 and 3 writer Chris Hepler tells me. “‘Any sufficiently advanced technology’ and all that. They wanted and got a really big decision that affects the whole galaxy. If you give it a moment's thought, none of the three options are perfectly moral or the ‘right’ answer for everyone. Destroy may not solve the problem of AI and organics; Control rewards the Reapers; even synthesis, which is harder to get than the other two and sounds like it'd be permanent peace, basically violates the entire galaxy's bodily autonomy without consent. So that part, I think, works.

 

“Did it satisfy the fans? Not at first, and I found a lot of the criticism to be legitimate. The Extended Cut gave us a second chance to make an ending that acknowledged many more of the players' choices, and was about as good as we could reasonably make given the decisions we'd already made. I felt a lot better about myself and us as a team after the EC came out.”

 

Mass Effect 2 and 3 development director Dorian Kieken

 

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“I think overall, people did not appreciate how much Mass Effect 3 was the end journey in itself,” Kieken says. “And how many stories that started in [the first] Mass Effect and evolved in Mass Effect 2 were being tied [up] during the game. Add to that the integration of [the first] Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 saves, and I think Mass Effect 3 was a great ending in itself.

 

Mass Effect 3 senior writer Neil Pollner

 

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“There's no way to tightly ‘wrap up’ something that has been accumulating and branching and growing for so long like that. When you give people deep choice throughout the experience, I think any ending that doesn't allow for an incomprehensible amount of variation is going to disappoint.

 

“To my knowledge, most of the team didn't know how Mass Effect 3 was going to end. And as far as I know, the vision for it was not set early on.”

 

More in the link.

[Xbob42]

Considering the entire game to be the ending was definitely a stupid decision. I get where they'd be coming from with that kind of approach, but considering a 40-50 hour experience to be one long ending is not really how endings work.

[Kal-El814]

If the whole game is the ending, there shouldn’t be the option to pick a card, any card, regardless of your choices to that point, at the very end. I’d be interested to see how many people picked something that didn’t jive with how they’d played to that point.

[Brick]

I was thinking a while ago, what if the ending was never the conversation with the Catalyst Child, but instead at the confrontation with The Illusive Man, where he dies as does Anderson, Sherpard activates the Catalyst, and wipes out the Reapers (or doesn't depending on your choices and war resources). Maybe even add in the option to agree with TIM, and attempt to control the Reapers. Basically that scene does mirror a bit the final scene with Saren from the first game where you can convince him he's being manipulated, and to kill himself. I wonder if people would have been more pleased with that.

[skillzdadirecta]

Mass Effect: Andromeda's Ten Potential New Alien Species Were Cut Due to Budget, Scope, and Cosplay - IGN

WWW.IGN.COM

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Mass Effect: Andromeda could have seen up to 10 potential new alien species, but many were cut due to budget, scope, and... cosplay considerations.

 

[johnny]

2 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Mass Effect: Andromeda's Ten Potential New Alien Species Were Cut Due to Budget, Scope, and Cosplay - IGN

WWW.IGN.COM

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Mass Effect: Andromeda could have seen up to 10 potential new alien species, but many were cut due to budget, scope, and... cosplay considerations.

 

feels like a bad thing to cut. the game desperately needed more life and alien species. had andromeda received the proper budget and time it needed they might have made a good game. there are moments here and there and it has the best combat. 

[Fizzzzle]

34 minutes ago, johnny said:

feels like a bad thing to cut. the game desperately needed more life and alien species. had andromeda received the proper budget and time it needed they might have made a good game. there are moments here and there and it has the best combat. 

I would have rocked with the game if they didn't put fucking sudoku puzzles in it.

[johnny]

Just now, Fizzzzle said:

I would have rocked with the game if they didn't put fucking sudoku puzzles in it.

that was annoying. i bought a bunch of the decryption tools to bypass doing those lol. 

[Fizzzzle]

1 minute ago, johnny said:

that was annoying. i bought a bunch of the decryption tools to bypass doing those lol. 

If I find a way to cheat that part of the game so I don't have to deal with it, I'll give the game another shot. I played 19 hours. The exploration and combat were the best of the series.

[AbsolutSurgen]

I found the sudoku puzzles really simple.

 

Mass Effect Andromeda was a perfectly fine/average open world game.  Just not a good Mass Effect game.

[BloodyHell]

It was their fault it was controversial. They promised fans their choices across the three games would shape your personal ending. If I remember right, their quote was very close to "It won't just be pick A, B, or C, the choices you've made over all three games will shape your ending".

 

People were angry for a reason 

(Though not enough of a reason to get the threats and stuff they did)..

[johnny]

1 minute ago, BloodyHell said:

It was their fault it was controversial. They promised fans their choices across the three games would shap your personal ending. If I remember right, their quote was very close to "It won't just be pick A, B, or C, the choices you've made over all three games will shape your ending".

 

People were angry for a reason 

(Though not enough of a reason to get the threats and stuff they did)..

i really think they needed a team that was only working on the story ending stuff (from writing to cutscenes etc) to flesh everything out. they overpromised and shot themselves in the foot. 

[Raggit]

Am I the only one who enjoyed the sudoku puzzles in Andromeda?  I did them all except for one, which if IIRC, I used the bypass tool because I wanted to go to sleep lol.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

There was absolutely no way to end this trilogy in a truly satisfying way though there were probably/definitely better ways to do so than what we actually got.

 

The fact of the matter is that the only "logical" way to end the series without resorting to deus ex machina-like contrivances would have been for the Reapers to win.

[Kal-El814]

12 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

There was absolutely no way to end this trilogy in a truly satisfying way though there were probably/definitely better ways to do so than what we actually got.

 

The fact of the matter is that the only "logical" way to end the series without resorting to deus ex machina-like contrivances would have been for the Reapers to win.

 

I honestly would have been fine with that. ME3 did such a good job with the character “fan service” by the end that what happens to the galaxy is generally not super relevant for me.

[legend]

16 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

If the whole game is the ending, there shouldn’t be the option to pick a card, any card, regardless of your choices to that point, at the very end. I’d be interested to see how many people picked something that didn’t jive with how they’d played to that point.

 

Exactly what I wanted to say. The idea that the whole game is the end is seriously belied by them introducing 3 wholly new very arbitrary-feeling deus ex machina decisions with extremely unclear consequences for 2/3 of them.

 

Get rid of star child and limit it to the destroy ending minus obliterating the geth (and maybe toss in some final transmission to the crew before Shepard pulls the trigger) and you can play the "the whole game was the end" card.

 

[BloodyHell]

 

That's the original quote I mentioned, btw.

[Bacon]

I actually think the biggest issue is that there is no 100% win ending. Like, I don't believe people wanted choices, people wanted to win. People wanted to win via their choices, but there is no way to win. You can have Shepard maybe survive with red. You have have some lame ass magic bullshit with green where only Shepard is sacrificed.  Blue feels like why is this even an option, but it does keep everything the same.  None of those are win states and none of them were the result of your actions. 

 

Of course I say people, but I really mean me. But I do feel like I have the average view point. Most people want to win or to have a happy ending even if it isn't realistic within the setting. It is why I never go for the link the fire ending in the Dark Souls games. It is I always go the Dark Lord route. That is why I kill The Maiden in Black. Those make me feel like I have won the game. I didn't just beat it, I won. 

[SaysWho?]

43 minutes ago, Bacon said:

I actually think the biggest issue is that there is no 100% win ending. Like, I don't believe people wanted choices, people wanted to win. People wanted to win via their choices, but there is no way to win. You can have Shepard maybe survive with red. You have have some lame ass magic bullshit with green where only Shepard is sacrificed.  Blue feels like why is this even an option, but it does keep everything the same.  None of those are win states and none of them were the result of your actions. 

 

Of course I say people, but I really mean me. But I do feel like I have the average view point. Most people want to win or to have a happy ending even if it isn't realistic within the setting. It is why I never go for the link the fire ending in the Dark Souls games. It is I always go the Dark Lord route. That is why I kill The Maiden in Black. Those make me feel like I have won the game. I didn't just beat it, I won. 

 

I don't think it's unreasonable, in this kind of game, to want a win ending. I don't mind endings that don't feel like a 100% win, but they're usually not games like this.

 

Your persuasion skills can win you

Spoiler

Wrex's trust and spare his life. Your choices can save the Geth and Quarians. Your choices and save the Krogans. There are win/lose scenarios sprinkled throughout the entire series, so it's weird that once you've made all your choices within your story, you're stuck with a, "Haha, nothing can stop the harvest unless you try one of these three things."

 

[Brick]

I'm just going to quote myself from the thread on the Next Mass Effect on my thoughts on the ending

 

On 12/11/2020 at 2:43 AM, Brick said:

@Greatoneshere the original ending is definitely not great. I played the game back in 2015, so three years after the game launched, and after all the DLC was released, and the extended ending had been added. I tried to avoid as much as I could about the ending in the meantime so I could judge it myself, basically only knowing that it all came down to three choices and what colour explosion you wanted. After playing it, I felt fine, and thought the Internet, as usual, blew everything out of proportion. Going back and looking at the original ending though I could see how it was a lot more confusing. The DLC and extended ending certainly help. It's still not a perfect or preferred ending, but it is better. Further options with the star child were definitely needed, like being able to convince it and the Reapers to go away, at least for a time being, because you got peace with the geth for example, would have been one good option to add.

 

The whole game, however, was clearly rushed by EA, and I will never forgive them for that. They cared more about their damn fiscal earnings than letting the team complete the story properly, which in turn pissed off the fanbase and probably hurt their earnings in the long run anyway. Remember that the game was originally supposed to come out in holiday of 2011; less than two years after Mass Effect 2 launched in January of 2010. The game was eventually delayed to March of 2012 (still within EA's fiscal year, even if they missed the holiday surge), but obviously still wasn't enough. The game should have been planned for holiday 2012 from the beginning at the very least! That and some of the essential DLC should have been part of the main game. A prothean team member?! How cool of a reveal would that have been to find out while playing the game? Nah let's make it a Collector's and Digital Deluxe Edition bonus. Leviathan DLC to learn about the origins of the Reapers and their creators? Make it after the game comes out and adds a lot more context to the finale with the star child. EA fucked the game so hard with their corporate BS, making the game get dogpiled by the shittiest of shitty "fans", and making the good doctors that founded BioWare in the first place quit the industry all together. If any game needed the proper amount of time to try and get everything right, it was certainly the final entry in a trilogy of RPGs that had all your decisions make meaningful impacts on the story. Who knows what kind of Mass Effect 3 we would have gotten had EA let BioWare take all the time they needed.

 

[XxEvil AshxX]

I think the better ending would've been that Shepard had his/her mind wiped and it was revealed that they were the reaper all along.

 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

I had always felt one thing they could do that would allow us to see and feel our choices and efforts was to have our “allies” show up to help us in the final push to get aboard the Citadel from Earth. They actually ended up doing something like this in Andromeda, which lead to more or certain people surviving. 
 

your multiple endings would be a result of how prepared you were and how many allies you had (both alliances and still alive). 

[Greatoneshere]

23 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

 

I don't think it's unreasonable, in this kind of game, to want a win ending. I don't mind endings that don't feel like a 100% win, but they're usually not games like this.

 

Your persuasion skills can win you

  Hide contents

Wrex's trust and spare his life. Your choices can save the Geth and Quarians. Your choices and save the Krogans. There are win/lose scenarios sprinkled throughout the entire series, so it's weird that once you've made all your choices within your story, you're stuck with a, "Haha, nothing can stop the harvest unless you try one of these three things."

 

 

Yes, this is exactly why the ending to ME3 is a problem. You can "win" plenty of times over if you're interested in maximizing a paragon playthrough (as I did) but the endings don't offer any sort of win scenario if you've been playing/working hard towards one. The games constantly give you positive choices if you are trying to do the right thing but then all the arbitrary choices in the end make sure you have to lose to one degree or another. There are ways to have downer aspects to positive endings but wiping out the geth and all other synthetics in the galaxy as a caveat to an otherwise "good" ending was not the way to do it.

 

That being said, until you go up the elevator in the Citadel and meet the Star Child, Mass Effect 3 really is a great, great game. Just one great story moment after the next, for the most part. I didn't like a few things, but I was loving the game until the last 10-15 minutes.