Keep cars out of cities

[Jason]

3 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Paris is 47 square miles... Los Angeles is 504 square miles

 

 

That's only meaningful if everyone is driving across the county each and every day. But they're not. Something like 47% of car trips in Los Angeles are under three miles. And as you just said with regard to staying local because of the pandemic, why are you driving halfway across the county right now?

[Jason]

And anyhow, I'm pretty sure the Paris area is an order of magnitude bigger than LA County if you include all the places the RER goes.

[skillzdadirecta]

Just now, Jason said:

 

 

That's only meaningful if everyone is driving across the county each and every day. But they're not. Something like 47% of car trips in Los Angeles are under three miles. And as you just said with regard to staying local because of the pandemic, why are you driving halfway across the county right now?

I illustrated the size difference to point out that LA is made of different neighborhoods that are structurally different and even politically and CULTURALLY different because it's so big and maybe, just maybe, THAT is why it takes so long to implement something city and countywide in a "timely" fashion. There are local groups in certain parts of LA that are actively fighting against bike lanes and public transport so like I said, comparing a city the size of Los Angeles to a city the size of Paris accomplishes what exactly? Apples to shit that ain't apples and all that.

[Jason]

1 minute ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I illustrated the size difference to point out that LA is made of different neighborhoods that are structurally different and even politically and CULTURALLY different because it's so big and maybe, just maybe, THAT is why it takes so long to implement something city and countywide in a "timely" fashion. There are local groups in certain parts of LA that are actively fighting against bike lanes and public transport so like I said, comparing a city the size of Los Angeles to a city the size of Paris accomplishes what exactly? Apples to shit that ain't apples and all that.

 

I specifically limited myself to particular neighborhoods like DTLA. The fact that most people aren't going to ride a bike from Long Beach to DTLA has nothing to do with the state of bike infrastructure within DTLA.

[skillzdadirecta]

4 minutes ago, Jason said:

And anyhow, I'm pretty sure the Paris area is an order of magnitude bigger than LA County if you include all the places the RER goes.

https://www.welikela.com/how-big-is-los-angeles/

[Bloodporne]

1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said:

When I get back to LA, I'm buying a new car for the first time in MY LIFE. I've lived in LA for 12 and a half years without a car and was happy to do so. It took a global pandemic to change my mind and force me to buy a car.

How the hell have you been able to do that? Granted, I've only been to LA once in my life but it seemed absolutely sprawling and a block was like 10 miles long. 

[TwinIon]

The article in the OP is specifically about Manhattan, and even more specifically about removing all private cars from most of it. That's an extreme measure, but I'd be supportive of the idea as someone who has only visited.

 

As for cities like LA, it seems to me that there is an obvious place to start: with housing. We don't have the density or infrastructure to even contemplate something like banning all private cars, but there are all sorts of big and small measures that keep LA (and other CA cites) artificially sparse. Building restrictions in LA aren't as bad as the bay area, but they're still pretty bad. In most of the county you're not allowed to build anything other than single family homes. Even where you can build something more, there are height restrictions, you're required to build parking at a very high ratio of residents to spots, and you often have to build open space as well. Local and State Bills like SB 50, which allowed increased density around transit stops are routinely killed.

 

 

Build more housing, more densely, and all the sudden the benefits of commercial density and transit rise dramatically. For some reason all of CA is in the same bind, desperately needing more homes, but not wanting to build them anywhere.

[skillzdadirecta]

1 minute ago, Bloodporne said:

How the hell have you been able to do that? Granted, I've only been to LA once in my life but it seemed absolutely sprawling and a block was like 10 miles long. 

EVERYBODY asks me that. Before Uber and Lyft it was simply a matter of living in a really walking friendly neighborhood that had pretty much everything I needed within walking distance (Including my job) One I left that job and became freelance, I worked from home mostly and could either Uber or take public transportation (The Bus or the Metro train once they built stops near me) 

 

I made that shit work and even inspired a couple of my buddies to give up their cars because they saw how well I was able to make it work. But the key is to find a great neighborhood that has all the shit you like and need so you don't have to deal with LA traffic because it really takes an hour to get from one place to another.

[johnny]

I hope that at some point I can live close enough to everything that I don’t need my car unless I’m going out of town. I’d love to be able to walk or ride a bike to work but I have to commute right now. Have no faith that public transit will improve to become practical in the future. 

[Signifyin(g)Monkey]

The real solution is an AI-controlled self-driving car system...the AI will coordinate traffic so efficiently it’ll drive emissions way down to a minimum.  Plus less people will feel the need to own cars themselves once it’s cheaper per mile to call an automated taxi for all your transportation needs, than it is to have your own vehicle and pay gas and upkeep costs.

 

Potential problem: enormous and probably corrupt corporate behemoth will own the AI, any employment prospects involving driving will be dismantled, and said prospects may not be offset by new prospects due to the fact that the AI only works because you give your data to corporate behemoth for free and do not see a cent of the value said data creates.

 

Ok D1P brain trust, figure it out.  Give us a plan.

[Kal-El814]

3 minutes ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said:

The real solution is an AI-controlled self-driving car system...the AI will coordinate traffic so efficiently it’ll drive emissions way down to a minimum.  Plus less people will feel the need to own cars themselves once it’s cheaper per mile to call an automated taxi for all your transportation needs, than it is to have your own vehicle and pay gas and upkeep costs.

 

Potential problem: enormous and probably corrupt corporate behemoth will own the AI, any employment prospects involving driving will be dismantled, and said prospects may not be offset by new prospects due to the fact that the AI only works because you give your data to corporate behemoth for free and do not see a cent of the value said data creates.

 

Ok D1P brain trust, figure it out.  Give us a plan.

 

So like... our current situation but with AI cars? You son of a bitch, I’m in.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

AI cars won't happen you doofuses. Can't always count on tech to save us!

[Joe]

2 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

So like... our current situation but with AI cars? You son of a bitch, I’m in.

 

#YangGang

[Kal-El814]

Just now, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

AI cars won't happen you doofuses. Can't always count on tech to save us!

 

Not with that attitude.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Just now, Kal-El814 said:

 

Not with that attitude.

AI cars: practical, achievable goal using existing working, widespread technology

Car free cities: impractical, fantasy land bullshit 

[Kal-El814]

1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

AI cars: practical, achievable goal using existing working, widespread technology

Car free cities: impractical, fantasy land bullshit 

 

Now you’re cooking with gas!

[Keyser_Soze]

6 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

NO WAY would I ride a bike in LA   There is NOTHING safe about riding a bike in LA. I'd take my chances on a bike in NY before LA... but LA has started to add bike lanes at least.

 

You should move to Encinitas. They have nice new safe bike lanes.

[Uaarkson]

Any solution that relies on “new technology” is bound to be a disaster. We’ve been ignoring thousands of years of urban design wisdom for the last seventy, and every time we try and correct course it’s some bullshit top-down silver bullet. This shit is not rocket science. It’s zoning.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

This right wing version of Biden kicks ass

[thewhyteboar]

2 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

This right wing version of Biden kicks ass

I hope we get Tucker Carlson's version of Biden.

[Joe]

What if I like the 'burbs

[Joe]

 

[Jason]

3 minutes ago, Jose said:

 

 

1. Getting rid of SFH zoning won't immediately get rid of all the SFH stock that already exists?!

2. When I stayed with a host family in Heidelberg (Germany) they had a car but it was strictly for going to other cities. They wouldn't have dreamed of tooling their car around Heidelberg. Just like how when I lived in DC, plenty of couples had cars, but they had ONE car and they only used it for weekend trips, not for daily getting-around-town trips. At most maybe they'd drive it out to Wegmans in the suburbs once a week, but again, it wasn't a daily driver because it made absolutely no sense to use it as a daily driver.

[Remarkableriots]

14 hours ago, Captain Pickle said:

But winter.

 

sorry

Who doesn't want to ride a bike with ice covered streets and snow smacking you in the face to the point you can't even see? I actually have done this and it isn't fun!

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

7 hours ago, Remarkableriots said:

Who doesn't want to ride a bike with ice covered streets and snow smacking you in the face to the point you can't even see? I actually have done this and it isn't fun!

You do know that in places where cycling is a priority, bike paths get cleared of snow by the municipality?

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

From the replies to a tweet Jason posted

It's not impossible, and further it isn't required!

 

But hell, if we really wanted to we could heat the bike paths or have motion detected heaters, or both, on all bike paths throughout a city for a similar cost as one interstate interchange.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

8 hours ago, Jose said:

 

Ideally (within cities and suburbs mind you here) property taxation rates would be tied to long term maintenance costs (roads, sewer, etc) and that would render most suburbs much more expensive per housing unit and unaffordable to maintain at large scale.

 

This may come as a shock, but most suburbs are highly subsidized by dense/mixed-use/traditional neighborhoods and government at every level. Hell on a per unit basis apartment dwellers pay 18% more in property taxes than SFH owners on a per unit basis

[Bloodporne]

42 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

From the replies to a tweet Jason posted

It's not impossible, and further it isn't required!

 

But hell, if we really wanted to we could heat the bike paths or have motion detected heaters, or both, on all bike paths throughout a city for a similar cost as one interstate interchange.

We rode bikes all winter long where I grew up, it's not an issue. You just have to bundle the fuck up and be careful, that's all.

[Joe]

18 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Ideally (within cities and suburbs mind you here) property taxation rates would be tied to long term maintenance costs (roads, sewer, etc) and that would render most suburbs much more expensive per housing unit and unaffordable to maintain at large scale.

 

This may come as a shock, but most suburbs are highly subsidized by dense/mixed-use/traditional neighborhoods and government at every level. Hell on a per unit basis apartment dwellers pay 18% more in property taxes than SFH owners on a per unit basis

 

Makes total sense to me. A lot of people I talk to gasp that I currently pay 14k in taxes in my suburb in Bergen County, but to me the way bigger ripoff was the 9k I used to pay in Jersey City. This is a 4 bedroom house with a small but quaint backyard plus I am in a top 10 school system in the state. Feels like my current taxes are a steal, relatively speaking.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

1 minute ago, Jose said:

 

Makes total sense to me. A lot of people I talk to gasp that I currently pay 14k in taxes in my suburb in Bergen County, but to me the way bigger ripoff was the 9k I used to pay in Jersey City. This is a 4 bedroom house with a small but quaint backyard plus I am in a top 10 school system in the state. Feels like my current taxes are a steal, relatively speaking.

One thing I found out looking for the study I indirectly linked to above is https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-de-blasio-property-tax-reform-overhaul-new-york-city-20200131-zeol6rhvjngjznxhfgbje4l2y4-story.html

Quote

De Blasio and his wife paid just $7,970 in property taxes on their two Brooklyn homes last year even though the Park Slope houses have a combined market value of $3.7 million.

 

Holy shit what a steal. He apparently supports changing this, but God damn.

[Remarkableriots]

I haven't ever owned a vehicle in my life and never had a driver's license and at 39 I probably never will. I have always walked, biked, bused or used a cab if needed. 

[Keyser_Soze]

1 hour ago, Remarkableriots said:

 I have always walked, biked, bused or used a cab if needed. 

 

You haven't swam though?

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

This is a cities thread so I'm posting it.

 

Found the root of gentrification. Build more in rich areas! 

[BloodyHell]

On 7/9/2020 at 4:33 PM, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

AI cars won't happen you doofuses. Can't always count on tech to save us!

AI cars are already here. It has a higher chance of happening than Americans giving up their cars in the next 30 years. You are a minority. Most people don’t want private transport gone. That may not be right, but it is America. Fuck the Earth, dont’t inconvenience me. That’s where we are as a country. And even if it was what liberals wanted (it isn’t), the other half would fight it tooth and nail because ‘Murica and my right not to wear a mask, or something.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

K