Movies Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight Rises is a camp masterpiece (Film Crit Hulk writing for Polygon)

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

This is Film Crit Hulk's first essay for Polygon

Quote

 

“I mean, they had CNN down in that pit.”

 

With that mere observation, my friend Andrew perfectly crystallized the unique and subtle absurdity found within The Dark Knight Rises. Because there are so many little moments like this in the film. Moments where if you step away from the pulse-pounding aesthetics, you’ll find the curious and bizarre details that poke and prod at the seams of reality.

 

But what makes the film so fascinating is more than a few goofy gaps in logic. It’s how those gaps add up to transform the film into something much more interesting: an isolated miscalculation in the context of Christopher Nolan’s career.

 

 

[SaysWho?]

Quote

The mind races. Could we have had a chilling, more effective Bane? Could we have taken him more seriously? Could the garbled speech somehow have had a more positive effect on the audience than the alternative?

 

I don’t know. What I do know is the version of Bane we got, which is all I have to go on. The updated voice is the text that exists, and it’s that text we must use when discussing the film.

 

Bane scared the shit out of me, tho.

[Kal-El814]

8 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Bane scared the shit out of me, tho.

IM GOTHAMS SRECKLJHDFK

[SaysWho?]

2 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

IM GOTHAMS SRECKLJHDFK

 

That scene in particularly was frightening, especially since 'reckoning' is easy to understand.

 

All he had to do was gently lay a hand on Daggett's shoulder and the audience became dead silent. It was scary.

[Kal-El814]

16 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

That scene in particularly was frightening, especially since 'reckoning' is easy to understand.

When we saw it in the theater, I'd say maybe 60% of his lines were intelligible. The unintentional comedy of Batman talking to Bane like Han talks to Chewbacca was great.

[SaysWho?]

4 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

When we saw it in the theater, I'd say maybe 60% of his lines were intelligible. The unintentional comedy of Batman talking to Bane like Han talks to Chewbacca was great.

 

When we saw it, we understood his lines because they were easy to understand. The line you quoted wasn't unintelligible. 

[Joe]

I honestly wanted to be terrified of Banein that movie, but I just wasn't. Good movie, but nowhere near TDK level imo. I'd say it's as good as BB, tho.

[Bloodporne]

Bane looking and sounding like a jacked Long Island bro in an elevation training mask is something I just couldn't get over for the entirety of the movie. 

[Keyser_Soze]

1 hour ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Bane scared the shit out of me, tho.

 

 

[SaysWho?]

 

4 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

 

 

[Joe]

21 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

 

 

That didn't have the impact on me it was intended to have for whatever reason.

 

I will say tho that my balls definitely tingled when JGL was on the platform at the end, and the horn in the song blares and it rises. Soooo good.

[Dodger]

Yeah but how did his armor suit impact his knee

[cusideabelincoln]

That entire opening sequence just pissed me off when I watched it in theaters.  It was so obvious the dialog was written for us, the audience, that they should have had the actors stare directly into the camera while speaking.  And then the rest of the movie continues pretending to be serious with its nonsense, which made this one of my most un-enjoyable theater experiences, right up there with Spider-Man 3.  I'm also sure Rise of Skywalker would be number one on this hate list, but my expecations were tempered by the fact I read every spoiler leading up to it whereas I went into the other two movies completely blind and quite excited.

[skillzdadirecta]

I'm correct in assuming nobody actually read the article that @SFLUFAN linked in the topic? I actually did attempt to read it and while I get that a lot of you guys like this guy Film Crit Hulk, I have absolutely no idea wtf he was trying to say with this article and didn't make it to the end. I guess what was ultimately saying ( and he seems to deny this) is that The Dark Knight Rises is so bad its good and that while Nolan is a talented filmmaker, he has zero sense of humor.  I don't know if I agree with that but I do know he could have made these points with a lot less words.

[SaysWho?]

7 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I'm correct in assuming nobody actually read the article that @SFLUFAN linked in the topic? I actually did attempt to read it and while I get that a lot of you guys like this guy Film Crit Hulk, I have absolutely no idea wtf he was trying to say with this article and didn't make it to the end. I guess what was ultimately saying ( and he seems to deny this) is that The Dark Knight Rises is so bad its good and that while Nolan is a talented filmmaker, he has zero sense of humor.  I don't know if I agree with that but I do know he could have made these points with a lot less words.

 

I read it, which is why I quoted it.  There were many parts I could have quoted, but the quote I shared was emblematic of some of the things I was confused about: the article assumes certain things (we can't take Bane seriously/said jokes don't work unless it's campy or something along those lines as I read it this morning), but that's not at all my opinion of it, so it was hard to follow the point if I don't even agree with his premise.

 

There were some items that I think made sense, though, namely the way we find out about Bane isn't very creative even if it makes sense in the world.

 

Overall, I really do enjoy Film Crit Hulk, but this isn't one of his better articles.

[skillzdadirecta]

48 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

I read it, which is why I quoted it.  There were many parts I could have quoted, but the quote I shared was emblematic of some of the things I was confused about: the article assumes certain things (we can't take Bane seriously/said jokes don't work unless it's campy or something along those lines as I read it this morning), but that's not at all my opinion of it, so it was hard to follow the point if I don't even agree with his premise.

 

There were some items that I think made sense, though, namely the way we find out about Bane isn't very creative even if it makes sense in the world.

 

Overall, I really do enjoy Film Crit Hulk, but this isn't one of his better articles.

Yeah i didn't agree with his premise at all. Hardy's portrayal of Bane isn't anymore ridiculous than the actual Bane who is basically a Luchadore. Dark Knight Rises isn't a perfect movie, but it's nowhere near as bad as a lot of folks make it out to be and would have been underwhelming anyway coming after he Dark Knight. The Author of this article seems to really be trying to fit the film into this notion of camp, going so far as to constantly define what camp is in order to reinforce his point. Halfway through the article I found myself asking "Who gives a shit?" 

 

6 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

Bane looking and sounding like a jacked Long Island bro in an elevation training mask is something I just couldn't get over for the entirety of the movie. 

Would you have preferred he have his original "Nacho Libre" look?

[Bloodporne]

11 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Would you have preferred he have his original "Nacho Libre" look?

I actually have no idea what he looked like originally and don't know anything about Batman beyond the 90's cartoon and the movies I've seen. I had never even heard of Bane actually that I remember and he totally sucked in that movie I thought. 

 

Edit: Just googled him...oh boy...maybe that was the mercifully less lame version of this character?

[skillzdadirecta]

10 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

I actually have no idea what he looked like originally and don't know anything about Batman beyond the 90's cartoon and the movies I've seen. I had never even heard of Bane actually that I remember and he totally sucked in that movie I thought. 

 

Edit: Just googled him...oh boy...maybe that was the mercifully less lame version of this character?

Yeah that was the point I was making 

[cusideabelincoln]

1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I'm correct in assuming nobody actually read the article that @SFLUFAN linked in the topic? I actually did attempt to read it and while I get that a lot of you guys like this guy Film Crit Hulk, I have absolutely no idea wtf he was trying to say with this article and didn't make it to the end. I guess what was ultimately saying ( and he seems to deny this) is that The Dark Knight Rises is so bad its good and that while Nolan is a talented filmmaker, he has zero sense of humor.  I don't know if I agree with that but I do know he could have made these points with a lot less words.

 

That's pretty much it. He said was the movie was so unaware of how silly it was that it turned itself into a "camp masterpiece".  And in the end he acknowledges it is actually a bad movie but he enjoys it none-the-less, because of that disconnect.

 

And while I watched the before/after video of Bane's voice, I still don't find the original version threatening and it wouldn't have changed the overall tone of the movie or the character.

[johnny]

I don’t remember ever having trouble understanding Bane

[GeneticBlueprint]

Finished the article. I think he's technically correct. The best kind of correct. And while I thought the movie was the weakest of the trilogy I enjoyed it quite a bit.. Mostly because of Bane. I mean hell that sequence where they fight in the sewers/underground had me genuinely more terrified for Batman than any other scene in the trilogy. The mystery around Bane made the first act intriguing. And there were so many great lines of dialog in that fight scene. The "Victory has defeated you" line; and of course the being born and molded in darkness line. While you don't know everything about Bane's motivations and backstory beforehand you're still scared for the hero. And that certainly doesn't speak to weak character work as FCH implies.

[SimpleG]

Gonna disagree here and go thru some of his points

 

Banes voice actually works and the author is on point but still misses it. " But since Bane’s voice feels so ethereal and unsourced, it creates a constant disconnect for the audience." It puts the viewer on edge as much like the people near the character.

 

Again the author misses the point on "Bane’s voice is not the only thing that feels incongruent about the character. It’s also in the way that foppish voice matches with Bane’s exterior presence, the impression of a physically imposing bald brawler with a steampunk BDSM mask.

That honestly makes for an inherently hilarious combination, one that is amped up by the character’s baseline theatricality " Regardless if Nolan intended it or not the voice mismatch  with body makes the character off tilt and that puts the audience off tilt.

 

The author talks about the humor falling flat and while its not great its not terrible but it hardly puts it in the realm of "Camp"

 

If the characters were a couple of 12 year olds this "There’s the hilarious way Alfred saunters in and reports back on Bane’s League of Shadows connections like he’s just Googled “who is Bane?” Or the way he describes Bane’s incredible fighting precision, except he and Bruce are just watching on a fuzzy monitor as Bane awkwardly headbutts people. This is the act of disconnecting the audience, who can’t help but see the difference between the thing as it is intended and the way we absorb it." would be camp but its god damn Batman  , its not out of character for him to be able to access any and  all criminal databases.

 

The author goes on about the love scene , the turn , the exposition that comes at the audience so rapid fire and the politics all while answering his own question. The last 1/3 of the film feels rushed beyond belief but again none of that is camp.

 

I think the biggest argument for not camp is the lack of 2 points that are foundation for camp

 

1. The treatment of extraordinary as ordinary essentially the "To Much" 

If  we had a scene of Bane standing in line buying a Slurpie and some scratchers at 7 11 at 11:30 in the morning and no one bats an eye, then we have camp. Everyone treats whats happening in the film as one would expect.

 

2. Extravagance

Nothing in the film falls under this in fact its one of the few super hero films that diverts away from the flamboyant nature of such films.

 

 

 

 

 

[Keyser_Soze]

4 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

I actually have no idea what he looked like originally and don't know anything about Batman beyond the 90's cartoon and the movies I've seen. I had never even heard of Bane actually that I remember and he totally sucked in that movie I thought. 

 

Edit: Just googled him...oh boy...maybe that was the mercifully less lame version of this character?

 

If you were familiar with the '90s cartoon you would have remembered the "Nacho Libre" look.

 

How about the one from Batman and Robin??

 

[Mercury33]

Haha right? “I only watched the cartoon and the movies”

 

*whispers Bane is in both of those 😜

 

Yeah that article is trash. I got halfway through and I started getting an ice cream headache from the stupidity of it. 
 

Count me in the group of people who didn’t have any trouble understanding Bane. I think he voice got overblown by generally the same group as the Bombs in space people. 
 

TDKR isn’t any kind of masterpiece like TDK was. But I’d say it’s as least as good as BB was. 

[Joe]

1 hour ago, Mercury33 said:

Haha right? “I only watched the cartoon and the movies”

 

*whispers Bane is in both of those 😜

 

Yeah that article is trash. I got halfway through and I started getting an ice cream headache from the stupidity of it. 
 

Count me in the group of people who didn’t have any trouble understanding Bane. I think he voice got overblown by generally the same group as the Bombs in space people. 
 

TDKR isn’t any kind of masterpiece like TDK was. But I’d say it’s as least as good as BB was. 

 

It was definitely much better after the IMAX preview, but you have to admit itbm was impossible to hear him in that one.

[SaysWho?]

4 hours ago, Mercury33 said:

Haha right? “I only watched the cartoon and the movies”

 

*whispers Bane is in both of those 😜

 

Yeah that article is trash. I got halfway through and I started getting an ice cream headache from the stupidity of it. 
 

Count me in the group of people who didn’t have any trouble understanding Bane. I think he voice got overblown by generally the same group as the Bombs in space people. 
 

TDKR isn’t any kind of masterpiece like TDK was. But I’d say it’s as least as good as BB was. 

 

3 hours ago, Jose said:

 

It was definitely much better after the IMAX preview, but you have to admit itbm was impossible to hear him in that one.

 

I don't understand the trouble either. I know when the first full length trailer released, it was hard to make out the Gotham ashes line. But the movie we got wasn't that, so it didn't really matter much to me that it used to be hard to understand when the actual movie wasn't. 

 

It'd be like judging a movie because a scene that looked bad in a trailer was cut from the movie. Well that scene isn't in the movie anymore. 

[5timechamp]

my biggest problem with TDKR is that its big moments just dont get executed well enough and they wind up being huge cringeworthy misses... there is so much story to tell that many moments happen in a very half ass manner..

 

”im the only one capable of taking this device and turning it into a nuclear bomb... i just press these 3 face buttons on here and because science its a bomb”

 

all cops are going underground and absolutely all exits are sealed .. etc etc..

 

but the moments that work are great.. breaking of the bat, do u feel in charge, catwoman reveal, selina fake panic as police raid etc..