New Zealand imposes lifetime ban on youth buying cigarettes

[TUFKAK]

I believe the my body my choice extends out to everything. Personal agency matters and it’s nobody else’s job/right to tell me what to do with it. If we allow limitations on one aspect it opens everything up.

 

I think smoking is disgusting, but it’s their right to own their bodies. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

My body my choice is actually a very effective argument 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

You can make a case that smoking is very different because of the incredibly addictive nature of nicotine 

[TUFKAK]

7 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

You can make a case that smoking is very different because of the incredibly addictive nature of nicotine 

Alcohol can cause full blown chemical dependency to the point you will die if you withdraw from it. Ain’t no one seizing because their nicotine level is low.

[Keyser_Soze]

34 minutes ago, TyphoidHater said:

 

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read.  Smoking DEFINITELY affects surrounding individuals unlike, you know, ABORTION.

 

Apologies if sarcasm was intended, if so you should edit that in.

 

I think it was mostly a joke, he's got that kind of wit.

[TyphoidHater]

32 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

 

I think smoking is disgusting, but it’s their right to own their bodies. 

 

I can remember when a busy smoking section ruined the whole restaurant.

 

Smoking affects everyone around whomever is smoking.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

29 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

Alcohol can cause full blown chemical dependency to the point you will die if you withdraw from it. Ain’t no one seizing because their nicotine level is low.

I meant to say that the context of the “my body my choice” is different with tobacco relative to abortions since it is addictive. Also would apply to alcohol and opiates &etc&etc. how much choice do you really have when it comes to addiction?

[TUFKAK]

8 minutes ago, TyphoidHater said:

 

I can remember when a busy smoking section ruined the whole restaurant.

 

Smoking affects everyone around whomever is smoking.

I’m willing to argue alcohol can do this as well. Not to the same “eww this is gross” but the amount of societal issues alcohol causes is high. Don’t need to have cut someone out of a car to realize that.

4 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

I meant to say that the context of the “my body my choice” is different with tobacco relative to abortions since it is addictive. Also would apply to alcohol and opiates &etc&etc. how much choice do you really have when it comes to addiction?

Absolutely none outside of abstinence. But quite frankly, sometimes I need a drink and it’s not some politicians job to tell me I can’t. I know the risks I’m taking every time I open a bottle.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

55 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

My body my choice is actually a very effective argument 

 

I'd say that its efficacy on the individual receiving the argument largely depends on that person's view of individualism vs collectivism.

[Chris-]

14 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

I'd say that its efficacy on the individual receiving the argument largely depends on that person's view of individualism vs collectivism.

I’d argue that even from a collectivist standpoint the halo effect from limitations on personal agency is still a net negative. 

[TUFKAK]

Just now, Chris- said:

I’d argue that even from a collectivist standpoint the halo effect from limitations on personal agency is still a net negative. 

And the collectivist can easily argue abortion is a net societal negative in a society who isn’t at a replacement birth rate.

[silentbob]

My dad had half his large intestine removed about 25yrs ago. He was a smoker and drank 2-3 beers at night after work. When he was in the hospital he went through alcohol withdrawal pretty badly. Hospital called home around 1am and said he was missing and didn’t know where he was. He left his room a day or 2 after his surgery, walked out of the hospital, went to a local cafe for a smoke/coffee and called home at 3am for mom to take him home. Mom had him secured to his bed after that for 5 days for recovering. Doctor would late tell us it was because his body was detoxing. After that surgery, anytime he smoked, his stomach would slightly bloat until the day he died.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

14 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

I'd say that its efficacy on the individual receiving the argument largely depends on that person's view of individualism vs collectivism.

Given this country at large feels about collective anything eh…

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

2 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Given this country at large feels about collective anything eh…

Hence my qualification that the receptiveness largely depends on the individual's weighting of those two poles.

[unogueen]

1 hour ago, TUFKAK said:

I believe the my body my choice extends out to everything. Personal agency matters and it’s nobody else’s job/right to tell me what to do with it. If we allow limitations on one aspect it opens everything up.

 

I think smoking is disgusting, but it’s their right to own their bodies. 

There are no islands. and if you are you fucked up bad. if people are asking you to not kill yourself, maybe weigh their concerns.

[TUFKAK]

3 minutes ago, unogueen said:

There are no islands. and if you are you fucked up bad. if people are asking you to not kill yourself, maybe weigh their concerns.

A rose by any other name.

[Nokra]

I'd be fine with smoking still being allowed, but make it absurdly expensive, to offset the costs to society. 

[Jason]

5 hours ago, TUFKAK said:

It won’t and I’m opposed to the idea of legislating what others do to their own bodies. I’ll just say alcohol absolutely causes more social ill than smoking.

 

I'm opposed to legislating what others do with their own bodies but there's a pretty compelling point that smokers virtually always wind up impacting others with secondhand smoke.

[Fizzzzle]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

 

I'm opposed to legislating what others do with their own bodies but there's a pretty compelling point that smokers virtually always wind up impacting others with secondhand smoke.

I mean, in most blue states,  you already can't smoke indoors basically anywhere, you can't smoke within [x] feet of a door/window, you can't smoke at/near transit stops, you can't smoke in parks... the only places where you could be subjected to secondhand smoke for extended periods of time are bar patios, but that's your choice.

 

Even New Orleans banned smoking indoors everywhere last year, and it's mostly followed.

[Guest]

Externality - Wikipedia

EN.M.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

 

[Fizzzzle]

Comparing second hand cigarette smoke, especially in places where you're essentially not allowed to smoke in public places, to pollution from cars is wild. A million people could be smoking cigarettes in your city at the same time right now and it wouldn't even sniff the pollution from the average freeway, all the time. Not to mention the other ways cars pollute, like rubber from tires making its way into the water. And noise.

 

In everywhere I've ever lived, the only places where you're subjected to second hand smoke are places where it's very clear you're going to be around it, like the patio at a dive bar. At that point, it's your choice, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Let people smoke if they want to. It's not like people don't know it's bad for them.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

1 hour ago, Fizzzzle said:

Comparing second hand cigarette smoke, especially in places where you're essentially not allowed to smoke in public places, to pollution from cars is wild. A million people could be smoking cigarettes in your city at the same time right now and it wouldn't even sniff the pollution from the average freeway, all the time. Not to mention the other ways cars pollute, like rubber from tires making its way into the water. And noise.

 

In everywhere I've ever lived, the only places where you're subjected to second hand smoke are places where it's very clear you're going to be around it, like the patio at a dive bar. At that point, it's your choice, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Let people smoke if they want to. It's not like people don't know it's bad for them.

And we’re much more addicted to cars than even cigarettes 

[BloodyHell]

On 12/14/2022 at 11:56 AM, TyphoidHater said:

 

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read.  Smoking DEFINITELY affects surrounding individuals unlike, you know, ABORTION.

 

Apologies if sarcasm was intended, if so you should edit that in.

I mean, how? If the smoker smoke’s around others sure, but I don’t know any smokers who smoke indoors or in crowds of people.

 

im completely pro choice, but I also agree rhat my body, my choice has to apply to more than just abortion (and indcluding vaccines) or it becomes a bs argument altogether.

[legend]

I'd just like to say that catchphrases are not principled arguments and humanity's penchant to substitute them for arguments is a failing of the species.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, legend said:

I'd just like to say that catchphrases are not principled arguments and humanity's penchant to substitute them for arguments is a failing of the species.

Different strokes for different folks

[Xbob42]

On 12/13/2022 at 6:13 PM, mclumber1 said:

Bad.  I hate smoking too.  But people should be free to destroy their own bodies.  My body, my choice.

Sure, but no one should be allowed to sell you cancer sticks because it's literally just a valueless product that does no good.

[Joe]

4 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

I mean, how? If the smoker smoke’s around others sure, but I don’t know any smokers who smoke indoors or in crowds of people.

 

im completely pro choice, but I also agree rhat my body, my choice has to apply to more than just abortion (and indcluding vaccines) or it becomes a bs argument altogether.

This is a troll and no one with half a brain should fall for it.

[mclumber1]

6 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

Sure, but no one should be allowed to sell you cancer sticks because it's literally just a valueless product that does no good.

 

Why not?  What value/good does selling alcohol bring?

[TUFKAK]

22 minutes ago, legend said:

I'd just like to say that catchphrases are not principled arguments and humanity's penchant to substitute them for arguments is a failing of the species.

Catchphrases convey points we can agree on; I disagree completely with you here.

 

My body my choice conveys the argument that my bodily autonomy is sacrosanct and not open for interpretation from the masses. If we don’t own our bodies, none of this matters.

7 minutes ago, Joe said:

This is a troll and no one with half a brain should fall for it.

See above. 

[Xbob42]

6 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

 

Why not?  What value/good does selling alcohol bring?

None, and I feel exactly the same about it (actually worse, because people don't act like total dipshits and get into car wrecks when they smoke too much), but people brought up with zero skills to cope with reality shit their pants about it and consider it "different."

[TUFKAK]

6 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

None, and I feel exactly the same about it (actually worse, because people don't act like total dipshits and get into car wrecks when they smoke too much), but people brought up with zero skills to cope with reality shit their pants about it and consider it "different."

And at what point should big-brother dictate to you what to do with your body then? What’s the arbitrary line we’re drawing here? 

[Xbob42]

3 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

And at what point should big-brother dictate to you what to do with your body then? What’s the arbitrary line we’re drawing here? 

What a company is allowed to sell and what you're allowed to imbibe are not the same thing, but nice try.

[TUFKAK]

5 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

What a company is allowed to sell and what you're allowed to imbibe are not the same thing, but nice try.

Nice attempt to side step it.

 

By your logic ingestion of etoh is ok if you home brew but not if Coors sells it to you. Do you drive better with a home brew over a craft brew?

 

what a shit perspective 

[Xbob42]

4 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

Nice attempt to side step it.

 

By your logic ingestion of etoh is ok if you home brew but not if Coors sells it to you. Do you drive better with a home brew over a craft brew?

 

what a shit perspective 

Hey if you wanna down a bottle of etoh be my guest. Make it two to be safe.

[TUFKAK]

Just now, Xbob42 said:

Hey if you wanna down a bottle of etoh be my guest. Make it two to be safe.

I take steroids my friend lol

 

theyre both hepatoxic so I stay away from them when I’m on my aas. But my choice to inject is not your concern, or anyone else’s. I own my body, nobody else has a say here.

 

Further, a nice bottle of Rioja overlooking the Mediterranean is something I’ll gladly take twice.