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Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Killed Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, Injured Director


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1 minute ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Here’s the thing… who fucking cares?

 

We have 2 people dead (assuming this hasn’t happened outside the US and we haven’t heard about it) in this specific way because there’s a notion that guns need to look as “real” as possible where “real” has more to do with what people imagine guns to look like / the rule of cool than what is actually “real.”

 

John Wick is gun porn to a ridiculous degree, if we can accept that a suit can be bulletproof and that John can survive a 45 foot fall off a fucking building, maybe we don’t need guns loaded with something that could kill someone if a prop team misses something at the end of a 12 hour shift or an actor who’s been given props with different levels of danger throughout filing forgets which kind happens to be in their hand at a specific time.

 

 

Cartridge ejections are added in post all the time now.

The problem is when movies take shortcuts on things like stunts and gunshots, the movie fucking bombs, because it looks like shit.

 

Make no mistake, if a movie came out that had no risk at all with any action sequence at all, every single person on this board would say that the movie looks like shit and is a piece of shit. That is a standard that we have  set for ourselves. If you think that you are not culpable in that just as much as I am, you're crazy.

 

If you want to remove stunts from movies, fine. But just remember every movie  that we all loved, like Mad Max: Fury Road, just to name one. That movie had stunts with fast moving vehicles, gunshots, flamethrowers, explosives, gas lines (that were meant to be exploded), etc. If you want to think about it like that, the fact that no one died on the set of that movie is miraculous. Except it's not because safety protocols were followed. And even then, people still got hurt. But guess what? We APPLAUDED that movie for its stunts and realism. I belive yourself included.

 

This was an accident and a tragedy. But far more dangerous shit is done on movie sets all the damn time, and no one cares. Keanu Reeves (or liekly his stunt double) was 1000x more likely to die from that fall than from a mistake from whoever was in charge of the gun props.

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What a fucked up situation all around and that picture of Baldwin is just horrible. I wonder what the investigation will reveal ultimately, it seems wild to me that one person died and another was seemingly seriously injured with one shot in general. So many potential scenarios when I read that headline...was he dicking around and underestimated the actual power and fired the thing right in front of both? Did someone pull a Brandon Lee? 

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Brandon Lee died almost 30 years ago. Dozens of stuntment and who knows how many crew members have died from doing action scenes since then.

 

I just find it really disingenuous that suddenly you care about the safety of the crew NOW. It's because this accident had a big name actor and guns attached to it.

 

Shit, in the movie xXx, a stuntman died in a paraglyding shot AND THEY USED THAT SHOT IN THE MOVIE.

 

Basically I'm saying you either don't want Hollywood to use stunts in movies at all, or you're a hypocrite for just using this one instance to virtue signal.

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Just now, Fizzzzle said:

The problem is when movies take shortcuts on things like stunts and gunshots, the movie fucking bombs, because it looks like shit.

 

Make no mistake, if a movie came out that had no risk at all with any action sequence at all, every single person on this board would say that the movie looks like shit and is a piece of shit. That is a standard that we have  set for ourselves. If you think that you are not culpable in that just as much as I am, you're crazy.

 

If you want to remove stunts from movies, fine. But just remember every movie  that we all loved, like Mad Max: Fury Road, just to name one. That movie had stunts with fast moving vehicles, gunshots, flamethrowers, explosives, gas lines (that were meant to be exploded), etc. If you want to think about it like that, the fact that no one died on the set of that movie is miraculous. Except it's not because safety protocols were followed. And even then, people still got hurt. But guess what? We APPLAUDED that movie for its stunts and realism. I belive yourself included.

 

This was an accident and a tragedy. But far more dangerous shit is done on movie sets all the damn time, and no one cares. Keanu Reeves (or liekly his stunt double) was 1000x more likely to die from that fall than from a mistake from whoever was in charge of the gun props.

 

John Wick shoots people in the face from close range all the time, so it’s clear that they’re not using guns that are at risk for expelling something into an actor’s head. Those movies are the gold standard for stylish gun porn. If they can do that safely there’s no excuse for loading guns with something that could harm or kill someone. None.

 

And no, you’re wrong about the insistence on realism. How many people do you think would know Tom Cruise really was strapped to that plane or really did that HALO jump if they didn’t go on a roadshow to talk about it? Again if people can accept a CGI Thanos in two movies that made billions of dollars, they can accept someone firing a m1911 that doesn’t “look realistic.”

 

Anyway I’m getting off topic. My point isn’t “don’t do dangerous stunts,” I’m saying don’t take needless risks. Loading a prop gun with something that could kill someone is a needless risk, full stop.

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1 minute ago, mclumber1 said:

The details are still fuzzy to me, but I could conceivably see Alec being charged with some sort of crime here, like negligent manslaughter.  


Incredibly unlikely for several reasons, not the least of which is the state of New Mexico is not going to risk scaring off film productions by prosecuting an actor for an accidental death on set. NM LOOOOOVES being a production hub and anything short of Baldwin shouting “I’m going to murder you with this prop gun” right before he pulled the trigger is going to end with no charges.

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1 minute ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

John Wick shoots people in the face from close range all the time, so it’s clear that they’re not using guns that are at risk for expelling something into an actor’s head. Those movies are the gold standard for stylish gun porn. If they can do that safely there’s no excuse for loading guns with something that could harm or kill someone. None.

 

And no, you’re wrong about the insistence on realism. How many people do you think would know Tom Cruise really was strapped to that plane or really did that HALO jump if they didn’t go on a roadshow to talk about it? Again if people can accept a CGI Thanos in two movies that made billions of dollars, they can accept someone firing a m1911 that doesn’t “look realistic.”

 

Anyway I’m getting off topic. My point isn’t “don’t do dangerous stunts,” I’m saying don’t take needless risks. Loading a prop gun with something that could kill someone is a needless risk, full stop.

Don't make me have to dissect everything you may have said about movies like Gemini Man and The Matrix for how fake as shit their motorcycle stunts look because they didn't actually do it.

 

There are obviously times where you can fake it. I've expressed how John Wick does it multiple times and why it works. It doesn't work for everything all the time.

 

If you want some semblance of realism in your action movies, there is going to be risk involved. Full stop. Whether that's from live guns or falls or any other thing that is even more likely to be deadly. Like, we all love The Raid: Redemption, and a big part of why we love that movie is that they *did* everything. Someone could very easily have fucking died while filming that movie. Here is the director of the Raid 2 just casually mentioning how someone cracked his head open but it wasn't "that" bad.

 

And for whether it's a "needless" risk... we don't "need" to watch movies at all.

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Basically I just think there are a lot of people virtue signaling here. Movie sets, especially for action movies, can be dangerous places. That's not to say there should be no accountabilty, or that investigations shouldn't be had into how the fuck MULTIPLE people got fucking shot from a supposed prop gun, but like.... the shit is dangerous. You're dealing with fire, explosives, moving vehicles, fucking even squibs can seriously injure someone if they're not done right.

 

If you watch action movies at all, you are complicit in whatever happens to the people who film them, because it happens far more often than you think it does.

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Again, I think there’s a meaningful difference between a dangerous stunt being executed as safely as possible while still being dangerous, or shooting a fight scene “Hong Kong style” where people are more likely to take real shots, compared to handing a weapon loaded with a lethal round to an actor.

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7 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

Again, I think there’s a meaningful difference between a dangerous stunt being executed as safely as possible while still being dangerous, or shooting a fight scene “Hong Kong style” where people are more likely to take real shots, compared to handing a weapon loaded with a lethal round to an actor.


The most biggiest of differences is one far more regularly results in serious injury or death ;) 

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3 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

Again, I think there’s a meaningful difference between a dangerous stunt being executed as safely as possible while still being dangerous, or shooting a fight scene “Hong Kong style” where people are more likely to take real shots, compared to handing a weapon loaded with a lethal round to an actor.

The thing is that blanks *shouldn't* be lethal if handled properly. The problem is that someone clearly fucked up in this situation and someone died. If you're outraged by this, tell that to everyone who has died due to a safety malfunction that didn't have something to do with a gun, because they are far more numerous.

 

*as safely as possible* is the key phrase there. It doesn't matter if we're talking about a gun or a motorcycle, people will fuck up, and when that happens it's usually deadly.

 

@sblfilms how many people have died in films from gun accidents over the last 30 years vs. improper falls or vehicle accidents. It's a lot more than 2.

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1 minute ago, Fizzzzle said:

@sblfilms how many people have died in films from gun accidents over the last 30 years vs. improper falls or vehicle accidents. It's a lot more than 2.


I am not sure off the top of my head, but there are on set deaths due to accidents every year and we can count on one hand the number of deaths from gun accidents in our life times. Stunt work in particular leads to death or severe injury at much higher rates because it is simply far riskier even when everything is done with the utmost care.

 

I was texting just now with my brother in law who was a police officer in NM for 20 years and recently was a police chief in the county next to where this accident occurred. He agreed there will be pressure on the local county prosecutors not to do anything about it, but that if this weren’t notable people somebody for sure would be getting a manslaughter charge as it most likely meets that bar for intentional act/unintentional outcome.

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53 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

Brandon Lee died almost 30 years ago. Dozens of stuntment and who knows how many crew members have died from doing action scenes since then.

 

I just find it really disingenuous that suddenly you care about the safety of the crew NOW. It's because this accident had a big name actor and guns attached to it.

 

Shit, in the movie xXx, a stuntman died in a paraglyding shot AND THEY USED THAT SHOT IN THE MOVIE.

 

Basically I'm saying you either don't want Hollywood to use stunts in movies at all, or you're a hypocrite for just using this one instance to virtue signal.

And Brandon Lee died from a bullet, not a blank. People seem to be missing that point.

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9 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

And Brandon Lee died from a bullet, not a blank. People seem to be missing that point.

And we still don't know if THIS incident was from a bullet or a blank.

 

edit: To be clear, in the case of Brandon Lee, they weren't even trying to use real "blanks" to begin with, which is why there is so much more regulation now. They were using real rounds with powder charges removed, however the primer was not removed from the charges, so the bullet was fired fast enough that it was still effectively a gunshot with a real bullet. A blank is basically a case without a bullet. So yeah... that's the difference. In a close enough distance, a blank can still be fatal.

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2 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

And Brandon Lee died from a bullet, not a blank. People seem to be missing that point.

 

It’s more complicated from that. Brandon Lee died because the gun needed to look loaded in closeups so they used dummy rounds (bullets with no gunpowder) for those shots. IIRC they didn’t remove the primer from the dummy so while it was being used the primer separated the bullet from the rest of the cartridge. Nobody realized that, and the same prop was loaded with a blank that had enough powder to fire the bullet from the barrel. Saying he wasn’t killed by a blank is… not accurate.

 

17 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

The thing is that blanks *shouldn't* be lethal if handled properly. The problem is that someone clearly fucked up in this situation and someone died. If you're outraged by this, tell that to everyone who has died due to a safety malfunction that didn't have something to do with a gun, because they are far more numerous.

 

*as safely as possible* is the key phrase there. It doesn't matter if we're talking about a gun or a motorcycle, people will fuck up, and when that happens it's usually deadly.

 

I know all this. I’m not outraged, I’m not virtue signaling, I’m saying there’s a difference between stunt people knowingly taking risks and putting potentially lethal weapons in the hands of actors because blanks are more realistic, require less work in post production, etc.

 

If the guy who doubled for Brandon Lee after he was killed doesn’t use blanks when he’s directing John Wick movies maybe there’s a reason for that.

 

:hmm:

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1 minute ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

It’s more complicated from that. Brandon Lee died because the gun needed to look loaded in closeups so they used dummy rounds (bullets with no gunpowder) for those shots. IIRC they didn’t remove the primer from the dummy so while it was being used the primer separated the bullet from the rest of the cartridge. Nobody realized that, and the same prop was loaded with a blank that had enough powder to fire the bullet from the barrel. Saying he wasn’t killed by a blank is… not accurate.

 

 

I know all this. I’m not outraged, I’m not virtue signaling, I’m saying there’s a difference between stunt people knowingly taking risks and putting potentially lethal weapons in the hands of actors because blanks are more realistic, require less work in post production, etc.

 

If the guy who doubled for Brandon Lee after he was killed doesn’t use blanks when he’s directing John Wick movies maybe there’s a reason for that.

 

:hmm:

He was killed by a bullet, not a blank.The bullet may have separated from the casing, but he was still killed by a bullet, not a blank cartridge wad. The blank created the pressure to fire the bullet, but it's still a bullet.

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  •  

    But, but... SNL!!!

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        This is not an accident, it's a violation of safety protocols. An accident is when you wet your pants.
        •  
          Better call Saul....
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            Looks like Baldwin will have an academy award winning documentary on the stress of producing movie flop films.
            1
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              who loaded the gun? Why was he aiming at those two? they werent actors or in the scene? Was it an intentional accident? A lot of questions and yes innocent until proven otherwise
              1
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                Why would he point a gun and then fire at the cinema photographer and director ??? Seems like a very stupid act.
                1
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                  Great! Maybe SNL can do a series of skits on Alec Baldwin Killing this woman. Hope they spread it out over a year and destroy him just as he tried to destroy President Trump. He deserves it!
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                    The WOKE HYPOCRITE is anti 2A yet he shoots films that are violent with firearms. WHAT A POSEUR.
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                      had to fire gun two times one shot hitting two people whats the odds
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                        Tragedy in deed, but Baldwin is getting back some Karma. Just saying.
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                          Karma
                          1
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                            Bill Murray blew up gophers and no one was harmed
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                              Sorry Alec, you can’t blame this horrific blunder on President Trump this time. He wasn’t in the room, he was only in your hollow head.
                              •  
                                ALWAYS REMEMBER Hollywood starts hate guns......but can't make a movie without them
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                                  Maybe sadly this man will truly be humbled. Hopefully those were tears of sorrow for what happened and not tears for thought of being sued and held personally responsible.
                                  •  
                                    I hope they breathalyzed him. Doubtful though.
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                                      Karma
                                      •  
                                        One has to wonder whether Baldwin's tears were acting tears or whether they were real. I'd be hard-pressed to be able to point to an instance where he actually cared about someone else aside from the publicity that he might gain from a claim of caring.
                                        •  
                                          He went after a cop who accidentally shot someone - I have no remorse for him.
                                          •  
                                            Leave it to dufus Democrats to blame Fox News or Conservatives....this is on Baldwin
                                            •  
                                              ‘in tears’? He’s a good actor!
                                              1
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                                                Do no worry about Baldwin, he is a democrat so the murder will be covered up.
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                                                  How do you accidently point a gun at a cinematographer and a director and shoot them? I doubt they were IN the film. First rule of handling any gun, assume it is real and loaded until known otherwise. Don't point a gun at anything/anyone you don't intend to shoot. Anyone that has had basic hunter sa...See more
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                                                    Well, Baldwin is an actor so who know if the tears were real.
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                                                      Karma sweet Karma...lol.
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                                                        There are a lot of things we don't know yet: Was there a live round(s) in the gun. Other questions obviously. One thing we DO know is that Alec acted irresponsibly. The people he shot were not actors in the movie. Most likely he was fooling around and stuck the gun into her stomach and pulled the t...See more
                                                        •  
                                                          Ban movies!
                                                          •  
                                                            Alec Baldwin is an unstable murderer. I am guessing his cinematographer wasn't woke enough. Lock thst fahgott up now
                                                            •  
                                                              Well, he wasnt holding it sideways because unlike a blmer, he hit his targets. NUM IMA SAYN?
                                                              •  
                                                                what kind of movie makes Alec Baldwin a star today.
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                                                                  This dead hollwood actor gets more coverage than the children that Joe droned.
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                                                                    Sorry for those killed and injured, especially their families. However, when you live a hypothetical life (anti-gun and then you kill someone with a gun) you have to step back and ask, “was Alec’s gun control position sincere or just political to be aligned with Hollywood and continue to make huge m...See more
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                                                                      No such thing as accidental discharge - it's negligent discharge every time. Guns don't kill people, people do.
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                                                                        Libs promoting gun violence in movies ?
                                                                        2
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                                                                          Stacy Abrams already has mailed in the victims ballot for 2022
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                                                                            They need to investigate what Baldwin had against the person he killed. Blanks do not kill, guns do not kill... People do.
                                                                             
                                                                             

                                                                         

                                                                         

                                                                        Here's a quick peak at what Fox News comments section has to say about this. The Fox News comments section is a great glimpse into the raw id of the current republican. You can read the article, where they dance around their true thoughts, and then go right to the comments section for the real story they want to tell. 

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                                                                        1 hour ago, Keyser_Soze said:

                                                                        According to the Corridor crew guys shooting a blank creates very little recoil so if realism is the thing you're going for, you don't get it from shooting guns with blanks in them.

                                                                         

                                                                        The recoil is physics. If a bullet is flying forward at high speed, that's going to cause the gun to move backward with a force relative to the forward momentum of the bullet. If there's no bullet shooting forward, the only recoil left would be from the hot gases being expelled. I'm pretty sure Time Crisis guns have more recoil.

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                                                                        New development:

                                                                         

                                                                        9ba34c193ebe2003dc8b7fe1d3a7f822
                                                                        WWW.YAHOO.COM

                                                                        The incident took place October 21 at the Bonanza Creek Ranch in Santa Fe County. It is under investigation.

                                                                         

                                                                        Quote

                                                                        IATSE Local 44, which covers prop masters, sent an email to its members early Friday morning that said the gun used in the scene contained “a live round” and the production’s propmaster was not a member of Local 44. 

                                                                         

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                                                                        Alec-Baldwin-Halyna-Hutchins.jpg?w=1000
                                                                        DEADLINE.COM

                                                                        The prop gun that killed one Rust crew member & injured the director has become the focus of debate

                                                                         

                                                                        Quote

                                                                         

                                                                        Law enforcement do not know right now if the prop gun that Alec Baldwin fatally fired on a New Mexico film set yesterday contained a “live single round,” despite claims from an L.A. IATSE Local.

                                                                         

                                                                        “We haven’t even begun the forensics on that issue,” Sante Fe County Sheriff’s Office spokesman Juan Rios told Deadline this morning. “That hasn’t been determined by us as of yet,” Officer Rios added. “We expect to have more information next week as our investigation continues.”

                                                                         

                                                                         

                                                                         

                                                                        In regard to the union situation:

                                                                         

                                                                        Quote

                                                                        While there were no Local 44 members employed on the set of Rust, it is still to be determined if members of New Mexico Local 480, which covers “experienced film workers in 99 crafts within 20 departments,” according to their website, were working on the low budget Western.

                                                                         

                                                                        Local 44 is based in L.A. and they're the ones claiming that it was a live round and that the propmaster was non-union, not Local 480 (the New Mexico branch).

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                                                                        ?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brig
                                                                        WWW.LATIMES.COM

                                                                        Hours before actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of 'Rust,' a half-dozen camera operators walked off the set to protest working conditions.

                                                                         

                                                                        Quote

                                                                        “Corners were being cut — and they brought in nonunion people so they could continue shooting,” the knowledgeable person said.

                                                                        There were two misfires on the prop gun on Saturday and one the previous week, the person said, adding “there was a serious lack of safety meetings on this set.”

                                                                         

                                                                        What I suspected... more is gonna be revealed.

                                                                        • Guillotine 1
                                                                        • Shocked 2
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                                                                        7 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:
                                                                        ?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brig
                                                                        WWW.LATIMES.COM

                                                                        Hours before actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of 'Rust,' a half-dozen camera operators walked off the set to protest working conditions.

                                                                         

                                                                         

                                                                        Am I reading this right. The deadly shooting was the fourth misfire on the set? What a mess.

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