"Most people living in the United States today—certainly more than half—are not Americans in any meaningful sense of the term."

[Jason]

 

[cusideabelincoln]

After we took "Under God" out of the pledge of allegiance, one of my high school teachers would continue to say and emphasize it loudly.

[Fizzzzle]

31 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

After we took "Under God" out of the pledge of allegiance, one of my high school teachers would continue to say and emphasize it loudly.

When I was in high school we started only saying it on Mondays and not every day and my mom flipped her shit.

 

I reminded her that "under God" wasn't even put INTO the Pledge until the 50's. It was only added to separate our great Christian country from all those Commie pinko atheists.

[thewhyteboar]

If you view half the population as non-American, then you have no problem disenfranchising that population. 

 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

47 minutes ago, thewhyteboar said:

If you view half the population as non-American, then you have no problem disenfranchising that population. 

 

Disenfranchising is hopefully the limit to their depravity

[Air_Delivery]

I skimmed over much of it cause I was tired of his dancing. He KNOWS what his solution to all of this is, but he is too much of a bitch to say what he wants to do. 

His argument is almost the exact same argument the Nazis made. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Remember - the conservative is your enemy.

 

Not your political opponent.

Not your ideological rival.

 

Your enemy.

[Jason]

1 minute ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Remember - the conservative is your enemy.

 

Not your political opponent.

Not your ideological rival.

 

Your enemy.

 

But muh bipartisanship. 

[Air_Delivery]

1 minute ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Remember - the conservative is your enemy.

 

Not your political opponent.

Not your ideological rival.

 

Your enemy.

I figured that out at the beginning of Trumps rise. I've never been shy about saying that outright

[Fizzzzle]

I still think there is a danger to labeling people as an enemy. A lot of people are brainwashed or simply misinformed with no actual malice. The harder you attack those people, the harder they dig in. That doesn't mean I think I support "bipartisan" bullshit, but having come from a pretty conservative background myself, a graduated understanding through actual effective legislation that makes people go "ooh, I guess it's not that bad" is better than turning rhetoric into "everyone who has voted republican is an irredeemable nutsack."

[LazyPiranha]

2 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

I still think there is a danger to labeling people as an enemy. A lot of people are brainwashed or simply misinformed with no actual malice. The harder you attack those people, the harder they dig in. That doesn't mean I think I support "bipartisan" bullshit, but having come from a pretty conservative background myself, a graduated understanding through actual effective legislation that makes people go "ooh, I guess it's not that bad" is better than turning rhetoric into "everyone who has voted republican is an irredeemable nutsack."

Nazis through inertia are still nazis, and they too should feel the embrace of the wall on their back.

[Fizzzzle]

3 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said:

Nazis through inertia are still nazis, and they too should feel the embrace of the wall on their back.

Sure.  And maybe I have a pipe dream and the lines in the sand have already been drawn. I just think if democrats cast aside the whole "reach across the aisle" bullshit and actually implemented legislation that actually improved peoples lives, you'd find a lot of republican voters going "hey, this isn't so bad." It's like with obamacare and preexisting conditions. Enact effective legalisation and people will naturally convert. Republicans prey on fear. Remind them that there's nothing to be afraid of through positive reinforcement.

 

The more you tell them they're idiots, the harder the claws sink in and the more radical they get.

 

I emphasize I'm not saying reaching across the aisle or appeasement is the solution.

[Anathema-]

The core of American conservativism is the belief in their entitlement to rule and the right to use violence to secure it. 

 

Like, I get it. If you're not a "might makes right" person it's hard to think in terms of enemies and friends. But trust this: they don't need you to see them as your enemy for them to see you as theirs. And they do. 

[Anathema-]

Half of America was founded by pluralists. Half of America was founded by neo-feudalists. It's been all downhill from there. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Also, depending on the context, the liberal is your enemy too.

[Joe]

12 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Also, depending on the context, the liberal is your enemy too.

I’m definitely getting the bullet during your ascendency. Just make it quick.

[MarSolo]

The only difference between conservatives in power and the Nazis are horrible fashion sense and a tolerance of Jews.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

3 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

The only difference between conservatives in power and the Nazis are horrible fashion sense and a tolerance of Jews.

 

That "tolerance" is rooted in the apocalyptic belief that the existence of Israel is necessary to fulfill the prophecy of the Second Coming.

 

And that "tolerance" only encompasses certain types of Jews.

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

That "tolerance" is rooted in the apocalyptic belief that the existence of Israel is necessary to fulfill the prophecy of the Second Coming.

 

And that "tolerance" only encompasses certain types of Jews.

 

Republicans aren't inviting Jews to their country clubs. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

34 minutes ago, Jason said:

Republicans aren't inviting Jews to their country clubs. 

 

If conservatives treat light-skinned Ashkenazi Jews that way, we can well imagine their reaction to Ethiopian or darker-skinned Sephardic Jews.

[Guest]

It's amusing that people are critical of conservatives for saying the ideology of Islamists is incompatible with western culture ALSO clearly believe that conservative ideology is incompatible with western culture  

[TwinIon]

I read that whole thing expecting a definition of what a real American is or what they should be fighting for. Apparently the "Constitution no longer works" and American democracy can only work when everyone "gets it," but they're not exactly describing what there is to "get" other than some vague notion of natural rights.

 

I suppose if I were to try and create some clarity from this mess of an essay it's that "true" conservatives are the only real Americans, that they're a minority who the government doesn't sufficiently represent, and that the only solution is to disolve the United States through a (likely violent) revolution.

[Air_Delivery]

14 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

I read that whole thing expecting a definition of what a real American is or what they should be fighting for. Apparently the "Constitution no longer works" and American democracy can only work when everyone "gets it," but they're not exactly describing what there is to "get" other than some vague notion of natural rights.

 

I suppose if I were to try and create some clarity from this mess of an essay it's that "true" conservatives are the only real Americans, that they're a minority who the government doesn't sufficiently represent, and that the only solution is to disolve the United States through a (likely violent) revolution.

As I said he knows what the solution to his claims are but after his "bold" statements danced around endlessly with a bunch of drawn out dribble.

If the majority of people in this country aren't Americans as he defines it and the the Constitution no longer works and democracy has to be "reconceptualized", there is only one solution to the problem. Seize power, by force if necessary, turn the US into an autocracy and jail/execute all political opposition.  

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

I'll be more than happy to agree with him that the Constitution "no longer works".

 

Except my caveat is that it never did to begin with.

[Greatoneshere]

I certainly agree with him that half of Americans aren't Americans, but I think he and I are talking about different halves.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

4 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

I'll be more than happy to agree with him that the Constitution "no longer works".

 

Except my caveat is that it never did to begin with.

It worked exactly as it meant to though

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

It worked exactly as it meant to though

 

Point taken!

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

But then again, I reject the notion that "rights" (natural or otherwise) actually exist, so I might not be the best-qualified person to pontificate on such matters?

 

Or perhaps that makes me the MOST qualified to do so? 

[Fizzzzle]

As far as I'm concerned, nationalism and democratic federalism are fundamentally opposing forces. One views the country as a platonic cultural monolith that rejects any attempts at changing that ideal, democratically or not, while the other views the country as a system of ideas and principles divorced from any cultural properties.

 

Like, when you hear someone say "this country was founded on CHRISTIAN VALUES!" Sure, despite the fact that plenty of the founding fathers (and who cares about them anyway) were not particularly religious or possibly even privately atheist, what happens when a majority of people no longer adhere to your idea of "christian values?" Democracy then just dies because you don't agree with it anymore?

 

WASPs have slowly been becoming the minority basically since the country started. Over the last few decades, it has become clear that the only way to retain their platonic ideal of 'MURICA is to destroy democracy. Because they have to be overseen by coloreds and little Tommy has to learn why boys sometimes kiss each other at school.

 

That's ultimately why I think white nationalists like Israel so much. America, in their minds, is WASP Zion.

[Jason]

3 hours ago, sblfilms said:

It's amusing that people are critical of conservatives for saying the ideology of Islamists is incompatible with western culture ALSO clearly believe that conservative ideology is incompatible with western culture  

 

Because conservatives SAY it's about western culture but they really just disagree with the Islamists on what flavor of theocracy we should have.

[Jason]

I mean conservatives explicitly want a king with that unitary executive nonsense.

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Fizzzzle said:

As far as I'm concerned, nationalism and democratic federalism are fundamentally opposing forces. One views the country as a platonic cultural monolith that rejects any attempts at changing that ideal, democratically or not, while the other views the country as a system of ideas and principles divorced from any cultural properties.

 

Like, when you hear someone say "this country was founded on CHRISTIAN VALUES!" Sure, despite the fact that plenty of the founding fathers (and who cares about them anyway) were not particularly religious or possibly even privately atheist, what happens when a majority of people no longer adhere to your idea of "christian values?" Democracy then just dies because you don't agree with it anymore?

 

WASPs have slowly been becoming the minority basically since the country started. Over the last few decades, it has become clear that the only way to retain their platonic ideal of 'MURICA is to destroy democracy. Because they have to be overseen by coloreds and little Tommy has to learn why boys sometimes kiss each other at school.

 

That's ultimately why I think white nationalists like Israel so much. America, in their minds, is WASP Zion.

 

This goes all the way back to the start, the Pilgrims didn't come here for religious freedom, they just thought it was bullshit that they didn't get to be the ones religiously oppressing everyone.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Because conservatives SAY it's about western culture but they really just disagree with the Islamists on what flavor of theocracy we should have.

Then you should have the same take as conservatives on Islamists even if the conservatives are being hypocritical

[Air_Delivery]

6 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Then you should have the same take as conservatives on Islamists even if the conservatives are being hypocritical

I know I'm certainly against Islamists, I just consider White Christian Conservatives a far greater threat so I focus my energy fighting them. 

[Fizzzzle]

It's also interesting that the Pilgrims and Jamestown are often taught as the "start of America." The Pilgrims wanted to found a new Jerusalem, they didn't actually care about religious freedom at all. They were basically proto-Mormons. At Jamestown, they definitively did NOT view themselves as anything other than patently English. The men who volunteered to go there were not trying to do anything other than bring riches home for themselves and gain favor with the King.

 

Puerto Rico was colonized long before Jamestown or Plymouth, but they don't speak God's English there, so I guess it doesn't count.

 

St. Augustine was founded 50 years before Jamestown and is the oldest European settlement in the continental 48. That one doesn't count either, though. They literally don't even mention it in schools. Again, not English, doesn't count. New Mexico was also established a decade before Jamestown.

 

The point being, the fact that we teach Plymouth and Jamestown as America's origin story is nothing more than a carefully crafted narrative that highlights the benefits of Capitalism, freedom to oppress, and the importance (ironically) of the King's English.

 

What should be taught more is Roger Williams, the founder of Rhode Island. An ACTUAL advocate for religious freedom and the separation of church and state, and an actual believer in equality among all men regardless of race (sort of, I'm grading on a curve). Or hell, even the Quakers. The Puritans banished both of them from Massachusetts for heresy. So much for religious freedom.