"Most people living in the United States today—certainly more than half—are not Americans in any meaningful sense of the term."

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Air_Delivery said:

I know I'm certainly against Islamists, I just consider White Christian Conservatives a far greater threat so I focus my energy fighting them. 

 

Neither are a major threat

[CastlevaniaNut18]

Religious fundamentalism isn't a threat. Yeah, I'll try to remember that as my state has passed three bills in the past month solely designed to harm women and the LBGT community. 

[Jason]

58 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Then you should have the same take as conservatives on Islamists even if the conservatives are being hypocritical

 

Why are you assuming I don't?

[Jason]

38 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Neither are a major threat

 

Mississippi Senator Suggests Sunday Voting Will Offend God

NYMAG.COM

---

Cindy Hyde-Smith is likely fine with other secular activities on the Sabbath. Restrictions on Sunday voting are actually aimed at Black churches.

 

[Jason]

39 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

 

Neither are a major threat

 

By the End of Summer, Arkansas Doctors Can Refuse to Treat LGBTQ Patients

WWW.ROLLINGSTONE.COM

---

Republican Governor Asa Hutchinson signed into law a bill giving medical providers discretion to refuse treatment to LGBTQ patients.

 

[marioandsonic]

52 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

 

Neither are a major threat

If you're a straight white male, yes.

[Anathema-]

8 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Also, depending on the context, the liberal is your enemy too.

 

Yeah plenty of folks out there be like, "plurality for me, feudalism for thee!"

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Why are you assuming I don't?

Your views on immigration policy. If you viewed these things as threats of the same ilk, you would logically oppose allowing for Islamist immigration. But you don't. 

But how about you just say whether you do or don't instead of this song and dance?

 

 

4 minutes ago, marioandsonic said:

If you're a straight white male, yes.

The context here is threat to western culture, not generically a threat to some people. 

[Anathema-]

Also it's not like Islamic fundamentalism is compatible with American democracy, that's not the issue. The issue is pushing back on demagoguing against Islamic fundamentalism when the actual real threat is Christian fundamentalism. It's not incongruous to deny the Christian fundamentalists the holy war they salivate for while also recognizing that fundamentalism anywhere is antithetical to pluralistic traditions. 

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Your views on immigration policy. If you viewed these things as threats of the same ilk, you would logically oppose allowing for Islamist immigration. But you don't. 

But how about you just say whether you do or don't instead of this song and dance?

 

Yeah I don't really feel like entertaining one of your weird trolling moods. 

[Anathema-]

"Say the words radical Islamic terror," is nothing more than a rhetorical trick to make you think the enemies are without when they're actually within (and demanding that you join with them as they lead a fight against a fantastical enemy).

[Guest]

Just now, Jason said:

 

Yeah I don't really feel like entertaining one of your weird trolling moods. 

I'm not trolling, and this is your go to move when you can't engage in the discussion. Oh well.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Anathema- said:

Also it's not like Islamic fundamentalism is compatible with American democracy, that's not the issue. The issue is pushing back on demagoguing against Islamic fundamentalism when the actual real threat is Christian fundamentalism. It's not incongruous to deny the Christian fundamentalists the holy war they salivate for while also recognizing that fundamentalism anywhere is antithetical to pluralistic traditions. 

 

It certainly is incongruous to believe that certain ideologies are dangerous and need to be expelled (christian fundamentalism) and also believe similar ideologies (islamic fundamentalism) should readily be imported. You are correct that it is about denying Christian fundamentalists what they want, not a principled position that religious fundamentalism is always bad.

[Anathema-]

1 minute ago, sblfilms said:

 

It certainly is incongruous to believe that certain ideologies are dangerous and need to be expelled (christian fundamentalism) and also believe similar ideologies (islamic fundamentalism) should readily be imported. You are correct that it is about denying Christian fundamentalists what they want, not a principled position that religious fundamentalism is always bad.

 

Not sure I agree with our advocated for expulsion. I'm just clearly and concisely naming the problem. Fundamentalists also want a theocracy which, Christian/ Islamic/ Jewish/ whatever, is antithetical to American pluralistic values. 

[Anathema-]

That's the paradox of democracy though: allowing a vote to those who would vote to dismantle the whole thing. Not sure there's a good solution there. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Anathema- said:

 

Not sure I agree with our advocated for expulsion. I'm just clearly and concisely naming the problem. Fundamentalists also want a theocracy which, Christian/ Islamic/ Jewish/ whatever, is antithetical to American pluralistic values. 

My man, on this very board we have people advocate for splitting the country into America and "Jesusland"  

 

There is a big difference between wants/desires and things that are actual threats to western culture. We are becoming less religious over time, the culture is clearly tilting further and further away from Christian thought.

[Anathema-]

1 minute ago, sblfilms said:

My man, on this very board we have people advocate for splitting the country into America and "Jesusland"  

 

Sure. Those people are, erhm, short-sighted. Also they aren't me. 

[Fizzzzle]

9 minutes ago, Anathema- said:

That's the paradox of democracy though: allowing a vote to those who would vote to dismantle the whole thing. Not sure there's a good solution there. 

Democracy isn't democracy if you don't count the votes of those who want to vote to end democracy.

[Anathema-]

Just now, Fizzzzle said:

Democracy isn't democracy if you don't count the votes of those who want to vote to end democracy.

 

It sucks but it's true. 

 

At least until we can allow all the undemocratic weirdos to found their own doomed colonies like on Star Trek.

 

(It's my own pet theory that the proliferation of space colonies is why Trek earth is so peaceful; all the assholes are literally gone.)

[Air_Delivery]

1 hour ago, sblfilms said:

 

Neither are a major threat

Republicans with anti-science as a core of their platform and their positions of power in the most powerful country are the most dangerous threat on Earth. Hundreds of thousands of people died due to COVID unnecessarily because of Republicans. Most Republicans deny Climate Change the most significant threat mankind has ever faced since the Ice Age. That's not even mentioning their sharp turn towards populist authoritarianism and all the racist and sexist shit they try to cram into law.

Republicans are the most dangerous people that exist today. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Air_Delivery said:

Republicans with anti-science as a core of their platform and their positions of power in the most powerful country are the most dangerous threat on Earth. Hundreds of thousands of people died due to COVID unnecessarily because of Republicans. Most Republicans deny Climate Change the most significant threat mankind has ever faced since the Ice Age. That's not even mentioning their sharp turn towards populist authoritarianism and all the racist and sexist shit they try to cram into law.

Republicans are the most dangerous people that exist today. 

Shifting the goalposts. Again, context is threat to western culture. Conservatives are losing the culture war bit by hit. It’s why they need things like gerrymandering and the electoral college to stretch their decline out.

[Anathema-]

I wouldn't say it's shifting goalposts as much as it's just a different topic (but not by much).

[Air_Delivery]

2 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Shifting the goalposts. Again, context is threat to western culture. Conservatives are losing the culture war bit by hit. It’s why they need things like gerrymandering and the electoral college to stretch their decline out.

Western culture will fall so quickly and easily if climate change accelerates in the next decades. And they have shown they can and will rule as a minority. They have a 6-3 majority on the Supreme Court for a long, long time. They have tried to rig the census. Unlike democrats they are not bound by "norms" or décor.

Trump has shown that this country is held together by duct tape and how easily it could all fall apart. 

 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

There's no such thing as western civilization it's just a right wing canard

[Anathema-]

4 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

There's no such thing as western civilization it's just a right wing canard

 

After all, America has never lived up even to its own ideals. There's nothing to lose yet but a fantasy. 

[Joe]

Not really taking sides here, but it always cracks me up how so many Americans view the USA and the Western world to be equivalent terms. The rest of the West thinks the US is a fucking joke.

[Fizzzzle]

3 minutes ago, Joe said:

Not really taking sides here, but it always cracks me up how so many Americans view the USA and the Western world to be equivalent terms. The rest of the West thinks the US is a fucking joke.

Most of the west thinks everyone else is a joke for some reason or another, that's not a unique phenomenon.

[Joe]

1 minute ago, Fizzzzle said:

Most of the west thinks everyone else is a joke for some reason or another, that's not a unique phenomenon.

 

Allow me to rephrase then: as far as the Western world goes, the US is a fucking joke. 

[Joe]

Like you guys do see how the majority of Europeans and Canadians live right? There’s more to the West than the US and nearly all of it is better.

[CitizenVectron]

14 minutes ago, Joe said:

Like you guys do see how the majority of Europeans and Canadians live right? There’s more to the West than the US and nearly all of it is better.

 

Living in a country with a strong safety net is so stress-free, it's hard to describe. I can't imagine what is like in Sweden.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Joe said:

Not really taking sides here, but it always cracks me up how so many Americans view the USA and the Western world to be equivalent terms. The rest of the West thinks the US is a fucking joke.

Western culture certainly encompasses much more than the US. But make no mistake, the west still relies on the cultural input of the US. See: entertainment and technology

 

 

1 hour ago, Air_Delivery said:

Western culture will fall so quickly and easily if climate change accelerates in the next decades.

 

Can you elaborate on your point here?

[Joe]

1 minute ago, sblfilms said:

Western culture certainly encompasses much more than the US. But make no mistake, the west still relies on the cultural input of the US. See: entertainment and technology

 

 

 

Can you elaborate on your point here?

It certainly does rely on it to some extent, but Western culture does not depend on the US to exist.

[Joe]

11 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Living in a country with a strong safety net is so stress-free, it's hard to describe. I can't imagine what is like in Sweden.

And a reason why it’s so hard to get those changes here is because even many educated Americans somehow don’t realize how much of the rest of the world lives.

[Jason]

10 minutes ago, Joe said:

And a reason why it’s so hard to get those changes here is because even many educated Americans somehow don’t realize how much of the rest of the world lives.

 

21st century American exceptionalism is "what works everywhere else couldn't possibly work here!" We're incredibly parochial on even being willing to consider that lessons from other American cities may apply in our own city, it's a huge problem in urban planning and transportation stuff.

[Jason]

Quote

Now that we’ve heard from all the members of the city council tonight, I think we as citizens need to make a few things clear. The first is, we aren’t Madison. We aren’t Boulder. We aren’t Terre Haute. So when I hear a member of the council saying, “Well, Waukesha made a few small but substantive changes in such-and-such an area and the results have been very promising empirically,” what that council member fails to understand is that we aren’t Waukesha. We aren’t Tacoma. We aren’t Amherst. We aren’t Portland, Maine. Are we Scottsdale? No, we are not. And so all this so-called “evidence” about how policies have worked in other towns simply does not apply to us. No evidence applies to us. Our town exists in a fog of mystery and enigmatic strangeness, and nothing that happens outside city boundaries should have any bearing on how we govern or exist.

 

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/every-nimbys-speech-at-a-public-hearing