Sony "PHYSINT" - some kind of "legally distinct" MGS-style bullshit from Kojima

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

 

[skillzdadirecta]

at this thread title.

[Ricofoley]

The Sony guy confusingly referring to this as a "new adventure" but also saying it's something he "encouraged Kojima to reinvent" in the same sentence really does make it sound like this guy just called him up and said, "Yo, can you just make Metal Gear again under a new name?"

[Brick]

Can he do his vision for what was supposed to be Silent Hills, but make it legally distinct after this? 

[Keyser_Soze]

3 minutes ago, Brick said:

Can he do his vision for what was supposed to be Silent Hills, but make it legally distinct after this? 

 

He'll be like in his 80s by then, will he even be making game still?

[Brick]

2 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

He'll be like in his 80s by then, will he even be making game still?

 

Maybe if he stops editing his own 9 minute "trailers". 

[Biggie]

so much hate and jealousy for Kojima in this thread I am thoroughly enjoying it

 

[Keyser_Soze]

This feels like a retaliation for what Microsoft is doing with Kojima I guess Phil has to get on stage together with him next time

 

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

So....  They're announcing a game they're going  to start making  in 2025.  So, tentative release of 2031?

[Mr.Vic20]

Let's cut through all the BS, will Mongoose (I assume this will be snake's name in this "new IP") vape?! 

[Brian]

Phil Spencer 

at the thought of being grifted by Kojima

[XxEvil AshxX]

It's interesting how Kojima can crank out two Death Stranding games and announce a new game "after he wraps up with DS2" while Microsoft has gotten nothing more than a teaser trailer for OD years after their supposed "partnership".

 

MS been sucking him off while he makes winky eyes at Sony for too long now. I'm not expecting this "interactive experience" to be anything more than a social experiment.

 

I'll also note that I have absolutely zero interest in anything he does and haven't enjoyed one of his games since MGS2. I think he enjoys the smell of his own farts far too much and the Keighly/Sony/Microsoft circle jerk over him is pathetic.

 

I think they wasted way too much time on Death Stranding 2 in the State of Play. It doesn't matter if you see 30 seconds of a Kojima game or 30 minutes, you're still not going to have the slightest clue what's going on anyway, and I hate that these game showcases waste so much time on him. The Kojima fans will play anything he shits out regardless, and the people like me will try it for an hour, realize it's still the same nonsensical bullshit he puts in every game, and move on.

 

I'd rather that time be spent on smaller developers and projects that actually need the attention.

 

/rant

Apparently I've been holding this in for a while now.

[SaysWho?]

36 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

So....  They're announcing a game they're going  to start making  in 2025.  So, tentative release of 2031?

I feel like people said this about Death Standing in 2016. No one expected it to release in 2019, but he’s efficient. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

6 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

I feel like people said this about Death Standing in 2016. No one expected it to release in 2019, but he’s efficient. 

Did I miss a release by Kojima Productions between Death Stranding in 2019 and Death Stranding 2 in 2025?

[SaysWho?]

15 minutes ago, XxEvil AshxX said:

It's interesting how Kojima can crank out two Death Stranding games and announce a new game "after he wraps up with DS2" while Microsoft has gotten nothing more than a teaser trailer for OD years after their supposed "partnership".

 

MS been sucking him off while he makes winky eyes at Sony for too long now. I'm not expecting this "interactive experience" to be anything more than a social experiment.

 

I'll also note that I have absolutely zero interest in anything he does and haven't enjoyed one of his games since MGS2. I think he enjoys the smell of his own farts far too much and the Keighly/Sony/Microsoft circle jerk over him is pathetic.

 

I think they wasted way too much time on Death Stranding 2 in the State of Play. It doesn't matter if you see 30 seconds of a Kojima game or 30 minutes, you're still not going to have the slightest clue what's going on anyway, and I hate that these game showcases waste so much time on him. The Kojima fans will play anything he shits out regardless, and the people like me will try it for an hour, realize it's still the same nonsensical bullshit he puts in every game, and move on.

 

I'd rather that time be spent on smaller developers and projects that actually need the attention.

 

/rant

Apparently I've been holding this in for a while now.

It’ll be okay.

[SaysWho?]

Just now, AbsolutSurgen said:

Did I miss a release by Kojima Productions between Death Stranding in 2019 and Death Stranding 2 in 2025?

Did he start developing it in 2019?

[SaysWho?]

4 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Did I miss a release by Kojima Productions between Death Stranding in 2019 and Death Stranding 2 in 2025?

From wiki:

 

”A sequel was first revealed to be in development in May 2022, when Reedus participated in an interview with the outlet Leo Edit to discuss his work on the game. Reedus stated, "We just started work on the second one".”

 

Just started in 2022 makes it sound like a three-four year turn again.

[AbsolutSurgen]

4 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

Did he start developing it in 2019?

Whatever they've been working on since Death Stranding came out hasn't been released.  Unless I missed something, it'll be six years between releases?

[SaysWho?]

Just now, AbsolutSurgen said:

Whatever they've been working on since Death Stranding came out hasn't been released.  Unless I missed something, it'll be six years between releases?

See above. They weren’t working on DS since 2019.

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, XxEvil AshxX said:

The Kojima fans will play anything he shits out regardless, and the people like me will try it for an hour, realize it's still the same nonsensical bullshit he puts in every game, and move on.

 

HIs games can be over the top, silly, goofy, ridiculous, etc. and his stories can get obtuse, over-complicated and abstract but writing off his complete gameography as nonsensical bullshit in an industry that panders to the base common denominator is missing the forest for the trees. We should be thankful some people like Hideo Kojima and Sam Lake (Alan Wake II), etc. are trying to elevate the storytelling with more avante garde and stranger sensibilities. That doesn't make it "nonsensical bullshit". 

[Biggie]

1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

HIs games can be over the top, silly, goofy, ridiculous, etc. and his stories can get obtuse, over-complicated and abstract but writing off his complete gameography as nonsensical bullshit in an industry that panders to the base common denominator is missing the forest for the trees. We should be thankful some people like Hideo Kojima and Sam Lake (Alan Wake II), etc. are trying to elevate the storytelling with more avante garde and stranger sensibilities. That doesn't make it "nonsensical bullshit". 

Just like your post. Over the top, silly, goofy, ridiculous, and obtuse. 
 

[skillzdadirecta]

3 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

That doesn't make it "nonsensical bullshit". 

What makes it nonsensical bullshit is that often times it IS indeed nonsensical bullshit. I get that a lot of you guys appreciate the mere attempt  to elevate videogame storytelling, but maybe these guys should master just telling stories first before they try to get avante garde. It's why I'll give a game with a straight forward, conventional but well executed and well told story more credit  than these weird, convoluted, ultimately pedestrian "experiences" any day of the week. Especially when the game's actual gameplay takes a backseat to these its narrative. It's why I didn't enjoy Alan Wake 2, a game where the actual game part of it felt like an afterthought in service to its' overly ambitious story.

 

I gave up on Kojima years ago... he peaked with Snake Eater in my opinion, which happens to be the last game of his I finished despite buying both Metal Gear 4 and 5 day one and never finished. I DIDN'T feel that way about Sam Lake at all, I loved every game Remedy put out INCLUDING Quantum Break because I felt like they were always able to strike a balance between gameplay and narrative in their games. Until Alan Wake 2 that is... Personally if you're going to make the narrative in your game the main selling point over gameplay than that Narrative better be damn good and engaging. Just throwing a bunch of bizarre shit up on the screen doesn't cut it for me personally. I saw enough of that in film school. Weirdness maquerading as "creativity".

[TheLeon]

I love most of Kojima’s stuff, and when I call it bullshit, I mean it with nothing but love and affection. 

[skillzdadirecta]

7 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

This feels like a retaliation for what Microsoft is doing with Kojima I guess Phil has to get on stage together with him next time

 

 

I wondered what happened to this.

[Keyser_Soze]

5 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I wondered what happened to this.

 

It was this thing

 

 

[Greatoneshere]

59 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

What makes it nonsensical bullshit is that often times it IS indeed nonsensical bullshit. I get that a lot of you guys appreciate the mere attempt  to elevate videogame storytelling, but maybe these guys should master just telling stories first before they try to get avante garde. It's why I'll give a game with a straight forward, conventional but well executed and well told story more credit  than these weird, convoluted, ultimately pedestrian "experiences" any day of the week. Especially when the game's actual gameplay takes a backseat to these its narrative. It's why I didn't enjoy Alan Wake 2, a game where the actual game part of it felt like an afterthought in service to its' overly ambitious story.

 

We can have both types of games. It's important for people to broaden their horizons. It's not nonsensical bullshit most of the time, to write off such a massive gaming creator's games is dismissive at best. And it's completely fine for some games' narratives to take over compared to gameplay, that doesn't invalidate their existence as a game. It's not like well executed but a straightforward story game is going away. If all one's gaming/media diet was one type of thing, that would be concerning. What they are doing is interesting work on the edges of an art form most don't even take seriously, at the blockbuster, triple AAA level. They have mastered telling stories, maybe you just don't like most avante garde works, but avante garde by its nature isn't typically going to be a straight forward story so I'm not sure what lacking in storytelling either Death Stranding or Alan Wake II have that's such a problem or makes their games' stories nonsensical. Something not being for someone isn't the same as something being objectively nonsensical bullshit. I found nothing convoluted about either game. You appreciate something more conventional but, to provide a different perspective, I'll always appreciate an interesting failure over a safe success because we've already experienced "well executed but conventional" ad infinitum. I'm bored of conventional. An interesting failure will at least hold my interest for longer if only because at least it's doing/trying something different when most media, now more than ever, plays it safe for easily disposable competent entertainment.

 

Southland Tales, even if you read the prequel comic book series to it, is nonsensical bullshit. There are tons of actual movies and games that have stories that make no sense and aren't worth getting invested in. Death Stranding and Alan Wake II don't fall into that category. It just sounds like you don't like games where story significantly takes precedence over gameplay. I'm watching my brother play through Alan Wake II now, for example (after beating it myself) and he's had plenty of combat and gameplay, it's less than there is story and exploration but so?

[SaysWho?]

1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said:

What makes it nonsensical bullshit is that often times it IS indeed nonsensical bullshit. I get that a lot of you guys appreciate the mere attempt  to elevate videogame storytelling, but maybe these guys should master just telling stories first before they try to get avante garde. It's why I'll give a game with a straight forward, conventional but well executed and well told story more credit  than these weird, convoluted, ultimately pedestrian "experiences" any day of the week. Especially when the game's actual gameplay takes a backseat to these its narrative. It's why I didn't enjoy Alan Wake 2, a game where the actual game part of it felt like an afterthought in service to its' overly ambitious story.

 

I gave up on Kojima years ago... he peaked with Snake Eater in my opinion, which happens to be the last game of his I finished despite buying both Metal Gear 4 and 5 day one and never finished. I DIDN'T feel that way about Sam Lake at all, I loved every game Remedy put out INCLUDING Quantum Break because I felt like they were always able to strike a balance between gameplay and narrative in their games. Until Alan Wake 2 that is... Personally if you're going to make the narrative in your game the main selling point over gameplay than that Narrative better be damn good and engaging. Just throwing a bunch of bizarre shit up on the screen doesn't cut it for me personally. I saw enough of that in film school. Weirdness maquerading as "creativity".

 

The bold parts are ones I don't follow, particularly for V. I felt for V, the selling point WAS the gameplay and being Peace Walker on steroids with Outer Heaven and creating new weapons and gadgets for use on the field. If anything, the criticism of the game was that there wasn't enough focus on the story outside of the audio logs.

[AbsolutSurgen]

6 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

We can have both types of games. It's important for people to broaden their horizons. It's not nonsensical bullshit most of the time, to write off such a massive gaming creator's games is dismissive at best. And it's completely fine for some games' narratives to take over compared to gameplay, that doesn't invalidate their existence as a game. It's not like well executed but a straightforward story game is going away. If all one's gaming/media diet was one type of thing, that would be concerning. What they are doing is interesting work on the edges of an art form most don't even take seriously, at the blockbuster, triple AAA level. They have mastered telling stories, maybe you just don't like most avante garde works, but avante garde by its nature isn't typically going to be a straight forward story so I'm not sure what lacking in storytelling either Death Stranding or Alan Wake II have that's such a problem or makes their games' stories nonsensical. 

I'm not yet finished AW2, but I don't think people have a problem with the story.  More, the gameplay (or general lack thereof).

[crispy4000]

One thing is for sure, Kojima is playing Microsoft and Sony against each other and laughing all the way to the bank.

 

Leaving Konami has done wonders for him.

[skillzdadirecta]

6 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

An interesting failure will at least hold my interest for longer if only because at least it's doing/trying something different when most media, now more than ever, plays it safe for easily disposable competent entertainment.

That's where we differ. An "interesting failure" is STILL a failure to me. The problem with Kojima is that, in my opinion, he's never learned how to tell a proper story or edit himself. He's DEFINITELY a talented, imaginative guy but his early success hasn't instilled ANY discipline in him and he hasn't matured at all as a story teller simply because he dosen't believe he has to. He has legions of fans who thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread and unfortunately, that very success and adulation has held him back as an artist. Do you think that he hasn't tried to get an actual movie off the ground after all this time? or a TV show? He has a very close reltionship with Sony... those exectutives probably laughed him out of the room when he came to them with pitches. 

 

And I'm not saying that these games and experiences shouldn't exist... plenty of people who aren't me seem to enjoy them which is fine... I'm saying let's not kid ourselves. Shit is shit regardless of how you package it and if these were movies or TV shows, we wouldn't be talking about them much less lauding them as pinacles of the medium. I think my problem with gaming narratives in particular is the low expectations we STILL place on them and when some tries something "different" we celebrate it as if it's the second coming when it is in fact... shit. How Alan Wake 2 got so many Game of the Year awards and considerations when it is barely a "game" is amazing to me especially in a year like 2023. This hobby really needs to grow up if it wants to be taking seriously as an artform and that means expecting more from our "autuers" than simply shitting out "Interesting failures". My two cents anyway 

 

You want a masterclass in melding narrative and gameplay? Naughty Dog is RIGHT THERE 

[skillzdadirecta]

4 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

The bold parts are ones I don't follow, particularly for V. I felt for V, the selling point WAS the gameplay and being Peace Walker on steroids with Outer Heaven and creating new weapons and gadgets for use on the field. If anything, the criticism of the game was that there wasn't enough focus on the story outside of the audio logs.

That may not apply to V to be fair. I didn't really connect with that game at all but always wanted to go back to it. IV and Alan Wake 2? That critique stands in my opinion.

[SaysWho?]

1 minute ago, skillzdadirecta said:

That may not apply to V to be fair. I didn't really connect with that game at all but always wanted to go back to it. IV and Alan Wake 2? That critique stands in my opinion.

 

I like IV's gameplay but it definitely ups the story craziness... or maybe it's the longass cutscenes that make me think of it more.  

[skillzdadirecta]

3 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

it's the longass cutscenes

That made me check right the fuck out of that game. I wouldn't mind long cutscenes if something worthwhile was happening in them. The latest Final fantasy has long assed cut scenes but they're awesome for the most part. Watching characters make fucking eggs for 20 minutes? Na I'm cool... Kojima has ZERO idea how to pace a story or edit himself and as a professional editor, its OBVIOUS to me.

[SaysWho?]

1 minute ago, skillzdadirecta said:

That made me check right the fuck out of that game. I wouldn't mind long cutscenes if something worthwhile was happening in them. The latest Final fantasy has long assed cut scenes but they're awesome for the most part. Watching characters make fucking eggs for 20 minutes? Na I'm cool... Kojima has ZERO idea how to pace a story or edit himself and as a professional editor, its OBVIOUS to me.

 

Yeah, and as someone who probably falls more to Greatoneshere's side of things on this topic, how Kojima does cutscenes is a sticking point for me because when I thought of MGS4, I IMMEDIATELY thought of its fried eggs. Some of the cutscenes I swear could go up to 30 - 60 minutes with no gameplay interruptions, though I may be remembering wrong.

 

I think he reigned that in since. Either that, or his Death Stranding stuff was more interesting for me because I don't recall hitting a wall with its story. He certainly reigned it in for Ground Zeroes and Phantom Pain. Hell, I give him a lot of credit for how he explored the Huey character because Huey ended up being one of the most fascinating for me in the series despite being more grounded.

 

I could be forgetting the length of certain cutscenes in, say, a Naughty Dog game, but I tend to enjoy them considerably. Same with something like God of War and Ragnarok. Maybe part of the issue with 4 was when it was released because how developers as a whole approach cut scenes has improved considerably since then.

[AbsolutSurgen]

16 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

That made me check right the fuck out of that game. I wouldn't mind long cutscenes if something worthwhile was happening in them. The latest Final fantasy has long assed cut scenes but they're awesome for the most part. Watching characters make fucking eggs for 20 minutes? Na I'm cool... Kojima has ZERO idea how to pace a story or edit himself and as a professional editor, its OBVIOUS to me.

I thought the 70-minute cutscene at the end was a little overdone.

Didn't Death Stranding have a cutscene that was over 2 hours?