EternallDarkness Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Just now, Greatoneshere said: I agree with you about the comics version having some insane stuff but this was an origin story and made on a low budget - I went into the show knowing the action would be primarily minimal and it was. It was pretty solid when it was there though. I suppose my expectations were just lower on that front - none of the action in any of the MCU TV shows have been good or memorable. The opening fight scene from The Continental blows everything MCU TV out of the water. Hell, Daredevil and Punisher action scenes in the old Netflix MCU shows were wayyyy better. MCU TV just isn't there with action in general, Moon Knight included. I tried to temper my expectation, especially given the other shows so far, but I was just so thrilled to see MK actually brought to life I couldn't help but want more. It better get a second season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 7 minutes ago, EternallDarkness said: I tried to temper my expectation, especially given the other shows so far, but I was just so thrilled to see MK actually brought to life I couldn't help but want more. It better get a second season. I also hope it gets a second season! Wikipedia describes the show as a miniseries so I'm not hopeful though. I think it seems like Moon Knight just had a much higher bar to pass than the other MCU TV shows since you cared less about the main hero in those other shows compared to Moon Knight. He's a great character that deserves great treatment but early MCU TV, only 6 episodes? I wouldn't have expected better than we got. I would have rated it lower but now that I've seen stuff like Secret Invasion and Echo and Ms. Marvel I'm gonna say Moon Knight looks a lot better by comparison. What would your ranking of MCU TV shows be (and rating for each)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 I'd love to see the original cut of FAWS with all the pandemic-y stuff intact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 It also still grinds my gears that they rushed the ending of Wandavision by cutting a bunch of content because it would have required giving the VFX team another week to finish up, when they had an off week after the Wandavision finale anyhow (so wouldn't have required moving the entire release schedule around to delay the Wandavision finale a week). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 44 minutes ago, Jason said: I'd love to see the original cut of FAWS with all the pandemic-y stuff intact. Was this actually the case? I heard the rumors but never felt it was confirmed. I recall Marvel denied it, but that means nothing. Weird they'd care about that but not change any Ukraine/Russia stuff from Secret Invasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 23 hours ago, EternallDarkness said: maybe i lost hearing in one of my ears a couple of years ago and so now watch everything with subtitles on and this is the first time I've encountered the issue. Just seemed insane that it would happen on a show centered around a deaf character 19 hours ago, Greatoneshere said: I watch subtitles with everything all the time for as long as I can remember, so I'm with you there. I'm genuinely surprised this is the first time you're encountering this issue but guess it was bound to happen eventually. Almost everyone uses subtitles now: Subtitle Stats: How Many People Use Subtitles in 2023? WWW.KAPWING.COM Subtitles are greatly preferred by video viewers across all platforms, especially on mobile. Here's how subtitles affect engagement of your videos. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 4 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: Almost everyone uses subtitles now: Subtitle Stats: How Many People Use Subtitles in 2023? WWW.KAPWING.COM Subtitles are greatly preferred by video viewers across all platforms, especially on mobile. Here's how subtitles affect engagement of your videos. This is a trend I like. I did see something else recently saying the same, I imagine it's in part because a lot of Instagram and TikTok stuff is subtitled perhaps. At least it's forcing kids to read in some way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 10 mins into episode 3, this is better than the entire DCU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternallDarkness Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 17 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: 10 mins into episode 3, this is better than the entire DCU to be fair that's not a very high bar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternallDarkness Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said: What would your ranking of MCU TV shows be (and rating for each)? I'd have to give it some thought, and I will but need to finish Echo first. Of course its been a while since I watched some of them so not sure how accurate my memories of them will be. Odd little tidbit in relation to Marvel shows (the Netflix ones), I really enjoyed the 1st season of Iron Fist. Not saying it was great and can;'t quite put my finger on it but just something about it I enjoyed. That's another character I'd like to see get a second chance. I actually liked all the actors they picked for the Netflix shows, some better than others but they all worked for me especially Colter as Cage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 34 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: This is a trend I like. I did see something else recently saying the same, I imagine it's in part because a lot of Instagram and TikTok stuff is subtitled perhaps. At least it's forcing kids to read in some way. I actually think it is partially due to the sound design of modern shows/movies. There is so much dialog that is muffled/quiet that many of us old farts can't hear it properly. Based on these articles, I may be wrong, the younger generation may be having troubles too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 24 minutes ago, EternallDarkness said: I'd have to give it some thought, and I will but need to finish Echo first. Of course its been a while since I watched some of them so not sure how accurate my memories of them will be. Odd little tidbit in relation to Marvel shows (the Netflix ones), I really enjoyed the 1st season of Iron Fist. Not saying it was great and can;'t quite put my finger on it but just something about it I enjoyed. That's another character I'd like to see get a second chance. I actually liked all the actors they picked for the Netflix shows, some better than others but they all worked for me especially Colter as Cage. That's kind of what's fun about the exercise - if you can't remember much about an MCU TV show, probably means it was bad or forgettable, right? If it was good, it would stay with you like all good shows do. Once you finish Echo, I'll be curious what the ranked list looks like for you. As for Netflix shows, if they had shorter season episode runs they would have been really good. Even now, even Iron Fist is better than most of these shows. At least Iron Fist was fucking super weird and bonkers and stupid. MCU TV shows are primarily homogenized and generic. I'll take weird and stupid but interesting any day. Colter as Cage was great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 55 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: 10 mins into episode 3, this is better than the entire DCU This is simply not true but I'm tired of even defending good DCEU stuff from people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 6 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: This is simply not true but I'm tired of even defending good DCEU stuff from people. Episode 4, this is 100% better than the DCU and all of the new star wars movies. Beautiful emotional episode. Maybe it's because I have indigenous family and so I really connect to these characters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 19 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: Episode 4, this is 100% better than the DCU and all of the new star wars movies. Beautiful emotional episode. Maybe it's because I have indigenous family and so I really connect to these characters. Yeah, I'm gonna say Man of Steel, Shazam and Wonder Woman alone are better than anything in Echo. The indigenous stuff is good, but rote compared to where I see it elsewhere (Dark Winds, Reservation Dogs, Killers of the Flower Moon, etc.). It's like me with Ms. Marvel. But if you're enjoying it that much, more power to you. Divest it of that stuff (which was cool, I'd watch a whole show about the Lighthorsemen) and it's a pretty rote, visually standard show. I'm just not seeing what you're seeing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 4 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: Yeah, I'm gonna say Man of Steel, Shazam and Wonder Woman alone are better than anything in Echo 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 wandavision - good falcon show - meh loki - meh what if - i refuse to count this hawkeye - best one. would watch again. i can’t even take you seriously if you don’t think it’s at least top3 out of these fuckin shows moon knight - hot stinky garbage ms marvel - good she hulk - alright secret invasion - terrible television 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoberChef Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Happy to see someone other than myself that actually not only thoroughly enjoyed the Hawkeye series, but also found it to be perhaps one of their best shows yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted January 13 Author Share Posted January 13 In order for me (live action Disney+ only): Hawkeye - best by a lot Werewolf by Night - a fun one-off special Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special - Yes. Loki - a little boring at times but incredibly well acted and it does a good job of making you feel like something “bigger” is going on. She Hulk - I had zero expectations for this and I think every episode made me laugh consistently. Wanda Vision - it’s about even with She Hulk for me tbh. Echo - I’m only 2 episodes in, but it has easily the best melee fight scenes of any other D+ Marvel show so far, but, again, I’m only 2 episodes in so it could easily drop Falcon and the Winter Soldier - tbh, I barely remember this but I remember it at least having decent action sequences. Ms Marvel - show was boring AF, I have no idea why it gets praised so much. But, still better than… Secret Invasion - jfc this was a waste of time. Moon Knight - had half a decent episode (the flashback one with his mom) otherwise just consistently bad. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 The ending fight scene was a little flat but grandma's action acting was better than Gal Gadot's or Snyderverse power ranger style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 I was curious where the internet lands in general on these shows, so I went to IMDb to see what the rating and ranking would be. RT isn't very good with TV show ratings vs. movies (they just provide percentages with no "out of 10" score or how many voted) and Metacritic always sucks, so I'll just be using IMDb. Here we go: -Loki: 8.2/10 (401,000 votes) -WandaVision: 7.9/10 (362,000 votes) -Hawkeye: 7.5/10 (209,000 votes) -What If: 7.4/10 (139,000 votes) -Moon Knight: 7.3/10 (263,000 votes) -The Falcon and the Winter Soldier: 7.1/10 (247,000 votes) -Ms. Marvel: 6.3/10 (117,000 votes) -Echo: 6.2/10 (14,000 votes) -Secret Invasion: 5.9/10 (73,000 votes) -She-Hulk: Attorney at Law: 5.3/10 (187,000 votes) By the looks of it, my ranking and IMDb's are similar-ish, with the top 5 and bottom 5 being the same shows, but I have a slightly different order. Additionally, it seems I'm a bit harsher than IMDb audience voters are as all their scores are usually 0.5 to a full point higher than mine are for the same shows. RT's audience voting can be pretty toxic towards things like female-led shows and Metacritic is always toxic, so of the three IMDb has always been the least toxic but She-Hulk at 5.3/10 is hard to understand and I'm thinking to some degree that's gotta be toxicity. In no way is that show worse than Secret Invasion. You can also see that audiences might also be feeling diminishing returns in general since the four newest MCU TV shows are also the four lowest rated shows here (ignoring Loki and What If's second seasons because they were strong and it's hard to parse how much of their scores are primarily from after their first seasons rather than the second season being included). You can see a big drop-off from The Falcon and the Winter Soldier to the four newest shows which all ranked below it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 24 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: I was curious where the internet lands in general on these shows, so I went to IMDb to see what the rating and ranking would be. RT isn't very good with TV show ratings vs. movies (they just provide percentages with no "out of 10" score or how many voted) and Metacritic always sucks, so I'll just be using IMDb. Here we go: -Loki: 8.2/10 (401,000 votes) -WandaVision: 7.9/10 (362,000 votes) -Hawkeye: 7.5/10 (209,000 votes) -What If: 7.4/10 (139,000 votes) -Moon Knight: 7.3/10 (263,000 votes) -The Falcon and the Winter Soldier: 7.1/10 (247,000 votes) -Ms. Marvel: 6.3/10 (117,000 votes) -Echo: 6.2/10 (14,000 votes) -Secret Invasion: 5.9/10 (73,000 votes) -She-Hulk: Attorney at Law: 5.3/10 (187,000 votes) By the looks of it, my ranking and IMDb's are similar-ish, with the top 5 and bottom 5 being the same shows, but I have a slightly different order. Additionally, it seems I'm a bit harsher than IMDb audience voters are as all their scores are usually 0.5 to a full point higher than mine are for the same shows. RT's audience voting can be pretty toxic towards things like female-led shows and Metacritic is always toxic, so of the three IMDb has always been the least toxic but She-Hulk at 5.3/10 is hard to understand and I'm thinking to some degree that's gotta be toxicity. In no way is that show worse than Secret Invasion. You can also see that audiences might also be feeling diminishing returns in general since the four newest MCU TV shows are also the four lowest rated shows here (ignoring Loki and What If's second seasons because they were strong and it's hard to parse how much of their scores are primarily from after their first seasons rather than the second season being included). You can see a big drop-off from The Falcon and the Winter Soldier to the four newest shows that ranked below it. The She-Hulk score could be chudcel bad scores because Maslany looks like she could be Jewish, and just all around does not meet these white supremacist chudcels' beauty ideals. They probably also don't like that Jennifer Walters is promiscuous. The Ms. Marvel score is pretty obviously likely chudcel bad reviews because it's about a Muslim girl. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 22 minutes ago, Jason said: The She-Hulk score could be chudcel bad scores because Maslany looks like she could be Jewish, and just all around does not meet these white supremacist chudcels' beauty ideals. They probably also don't like that Jennifer Walters is promiscuous. The Ms. Marvel score is pretty obviously likely chudcel bad reviews because it's about a Muslim girl. Maybe but IMDb doesn't usually do that compared to RT, in my experience. But here, perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Okay, three episodes in and my main thoughts so far: This show definitely seems kind of aimless, it could theoretically be going somewhere interesting based on what's been shown through this episode but I don't trust current Marvel to get it there and stick the landing. Giving Maya superpowers seems unnecessary and even detrimental to making her interesting, and the whole mystical supernatural Native ancestors thing feels kinda weird tbh. Clever use of the Daredevil cameo as a show-not-tell to establish how good Maya is at fighting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Starting episode 4. Fisk beating the shit out of the ice cream vendor could have been endearing (and kinda was for the first punch) if it'd been like one punch and then telling the guy he's a dumbass and that Maya is deaf...but then I guess it wouldn't be Fisk. Also amusing that they made a point of showing that the guy was still breathing as Fisk and Maya walked off holding hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted January 15 Author Share Posted January 15 17 hours ago, Greatoneshere said: I was curious where the internet lands in general on these shows, so I went to IMDb to see what the rating and ranking would be. RT isn't very good with TV show ratings vs. movies (they just provide percentages with no "out of 10" score or how many voted) and Metacritic always sucks, so I'll just be using IMDb. Here we go: -Loki: 8.2/10 (401,000 votes) -WandaVision: 7.9/10 (362,000 votes) -Hawkeye: 7.5/10 (209,000 votes) -What If: 7.4/10 (139,000 votes) -Moon Knight: 7.3/10 (263,000 votes) -The Falcon and the Winter Soldier: 7.1/10 (247,000 votes) -Ms. Marvel: 6.3/10 (117,000 votes) -Echo: 6.2/10 (14,000 votes) -Secret Invasion: 5.9/10 (73,000 votes) -She-Hulk: Attorney at Law: 5.3/10 (187,000 votes) By the looks of it, my ranking and IMDb's are similar-ish, with the top 5 and bottom 5 being the same shows, but I have a slightly different order. Additionally, it seems I'm a bit harsher than IMDb audience voters are as all their scores are usually 0.5 to a full point higher than mine are for the same shows. RT's audience voting can be pretty toxic towards things like female-led shows and Metacritic is always toxic, so of the three IMDb has always been the least toxic but She-Hulk at 5.3/10 is hard to understand and I'm thinking to some degree that's gotta be toxicity. In no way is that show worse than Secret Invasion. You can also see that audiences might also be feeling diminishing returns in general since the four newest MCU TV shows are also the four lowest rated shows here (ignoring Loki and What If's second seasons because they were strong and it's hard to parse how much of their scores are primarily from after their first seasons rather than the second season being included). You can see a big drop-off from The Falcon and the Winter Soldier to the four newest shows which all ranked below it. She Hulk was almost def review bombed. I remember people bitching about it before it even came out. Ms Marvel probably was too, and that’s with me personally not really liking the show too much. Moon Knight scoring that high is absolutely absurd to me tbh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 I liked Ms Marvel, but more so the stuff with her family and community. Less so anything to do with the bangle and her super powers. so sounding like Echo is worth a watch? I honestly forgot which show she was in before. So I wasn’t sure how good of a show they’d make with her has a main character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted January 15 Author Share Posted January 15 54 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: so sounding like Echo is worth a watch? The fight scenes are really well done IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 4 hours ago, Spork3245 said: She Hulk was almost def review bombed. I remember people bitching about it before it even came out. Ms Marvel probably was too, and that’s with me personally not really liking the show too much. Moon Knight scoring that high is absolutely absurd to me tbh Seems the IMDb audience agrees with me about Moon Knight! Perhaps those two shows were review bombed, but like I said, I've been comparing RT to IMDb for 15+ years and IMDb doesn't really have that same level of toxicity that RT and Metacritic easily invite. You won't see other female-led films review bombed like that on IMDb. Captain Marvel has a 6.8 on IMDb. The Last Jedi has a 6.9. The live-action The Little Mermaid has a 7.2. Those are all good to great scores. It just isn't usually the case on IMDb but in these two cases, maybe? 1 hour ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: so sounding like Echo is worth a watch? I honestly forgot which show she was in before. So I wasn’t sure how good of a show they’d make with her has a main character. She was in Hawkeye working for Wilson Fisk, who was in the three seasons of Netflix show Daredevil before that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarSolo Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 I did appreciate the brilliance of releasing the Hawkeye episode with the Kingpin reveal the same week Spider-Man: No Way Home released in theaters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternallDarkness Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 forgot to report back that I finally finished the series a couple of days ago and thought ...hmmm this series was pretty much pointless 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 The entirety of my MCU TV experience: Moon Knight - sucks Loki - rules And I'm pretty sure that's all it will ever be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentbob Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 So I finished the series tonight, and it was ok on its own I guess. I was happier seeing Graham Greene on tv again. Sorry I’m way behind on Reservation Dogs (if he was on that) but I haven’t seen him really since The Red Green Show ending. For those who didn’t watch, he played Edgar the Explosives “Expert” (apparently he’s done a lot since then and own some of his latest stuff) Anyways it was a cool native story that is nice to see represented for the public, and I guess Maya is like light version of The Crow. Loved Kingpin in any scene he was in because, well ice cream man. Good cast, ok story but seems like the “spotlight” signature means she’s one and done. Like what they are setting up for the DareDevil series arc I assume. Which really helps setup the rumour that Spider-Man 4 will be a team up of the two heroes. Anyways, it was good but nothing I felt like binging minus the last 2 episodes. 3/5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remarkableriots Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Marvel Actor Confirms How Daredevil: Born Again Will Be Linked To Netflix's Daredevil Show SCREENRANT.COM Daredevil: Born Again is being redeveloped. Quote As the Echo TV show featured D'Onofrio's Kingpin once again, the actor recently spoke with The Hollywood Reporter, teasing what is next for him. While he couldn't give specific details, D'Onofrio gave a very positive update about the new direction for Daredevil: Born Again, saying that the creatives involved with the show "are for sure only speaking about it in terms of being directly connected to the original Daredevil" TV show, stating the following: During our restart of all the creative on Daredevil: Born Again, all the creatives got together and said, “Look, this is how we’ve got to do it now.” So we are for sure only speaking about it in terms of being directly connected to the original Daredevil, and that’s a great thing. It brings in a lot of cool stories and all the collateral story that happened in those original three seasons. So we now get to start this Born Again situation with all of that history behind us and the outcome of all that history. So we’re all talking about Daredevil: Born Again in those terms now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Always gonna be funny to me that a Catholic character is gonna have "Born Again" in his show title @Commissar SFLUFAN 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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