General Gaming Imran Khan: Square Enix "slightly panicking" over Final Fantasy XVI pre-orders, tracking below Final Fantasy XV

[skillzdadirecta]

5 hours ago, best3444 said:

I'm doing my part in buying 16. 

Me too.

[Bacon]

31 minutes ago, Biggie said:

I am

You are specifically why the next sentence in my post was "At least not yet." I almost @'d you but I figured you'd show up anyway.

[Biggie]

58 minutes ago, Bacon said:

You are specifically why the next sentence in my post was "At least not yet." I almost @'d you but I figured you'd show up anyway.

Sorry not sorry. Game looks lame af

[SaysWho?]

10 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

Maybe if you want it to sell better you should put it on more platforms you shit slurpers.

“which are tracking behind FFXV even accounting for the lesser number of launching platforms.”

[Brian]

I do wonder if those invested in 14 are not buying SP FF games because they are too invested in that FF game to play another and that is why sales are not reaching the same heights. @Bacon is on board so maybe this is a wrong assumption. 

[JPDunks4]

9 minutes ago, Brian said:

I do wonder if those invested in 14 are not buying SP FF games because they are too invested in that FF game to play another and that is why sales are not reaching the same heights. @Bacon is on board so maybe this is a wrong assumption. 

 

I don't know much about FF14, but knowing it's an MMO I was always curious why people would think that's success would translate to a single player FF.

 

Most of the people I know that are into MMOs are not the least bit interested in a big single player title.  The stories also have nothing to do with each other, right?

 

I still think this games gonna sell fine though.  I've seen hints on Twitter of people I assume are playing it and they all seem to be obsessed with it.

[Keyser_Soze]

14 minutes ago, Brian said:

I do wonder if those invested in 14 are not buying SP FF games because they are too invested in that FF game to play another and that is why sales are not reaching the same heights. @Bacon is on board so maybe this is a wrong assumption. 

 

I talked to someone a month or so ago and they played 2 things, FF 14 and Genshin. If I asked if they were interested in playing some other game they would say they only have time for those two. So if that holds true for a lot of FF 14 fans they won't be making the jump.

[Brian]

16 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

 

Most of the people I know that are into MMOs are not the least bit interested in a big single player title.  The stories also have nothing to do with each other, right?

 

I still think this games gonna sell fine though.  I've seen hints on Twitter of people I assume are playing it and they all seem to be obsessed with it.

That is what I’m wondering. How many FF fans are converted to 14 and no longer have any interest in SP FF games?  I don’t know anyone besides @Bacon who plays 14 and he is in on 16 so maybe it is something else. 
 

All of FF16 showings have been positive. There is genuine excitement for it. It’s surprising that preorder numbers are trailing FF15. It’s still gonna sell well but will it break franchise records like we are seeing across the industry?

[Xbob42]

2 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

“which are tracking behind FFXV even accounting for the lesser number of launching platforms.”

How do you even "account for the lesser number of launching platforms" to begin with? There's less PS5s than there were PS4s at this time, so even one for one platform numbers won't align.

[SaysWho?]

1 hour ago, Xbob42 said:

How do you even "account for the lesser number of launching platforms" to begin with? There's less PS5s than there were PS4s at this time, so even one for one platform numbers won't align.

Probably by having expectations and the game not meeting them based on the platforms they are on.

[Xbob42]

21 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

Probably by having expectations and the game not meeting them based on the platforms they are on.

And I'm asking how they could accurately gauge those expectations, using what data? Whatever the answer: It's clear they were wrong, so...

[SaysWho?]

51 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

And I'm asking how they could accurately gauge those expectations, using what data? Whatever the answer: It's clear they were wrong, so...

 

X amount of consoles are available.

We expect to sell Y.

But it looked like we'll sell Z. We're slightly panicked.

 

Whether it's on 1 console or 100, all publishers have expectations as to what they'll sell, just as movie distributors have expectations on box office (@sblfilms could probably elaborate on that). So it has nothing to do with number of platforms and likely more to do with how much these games are expected to sell; I also  doubt they're too worried about PS5 sales since it's fully expected to overcome PS4 in a matter of months launch-aligned and already outsold it launched-aligned in the U.S.

 

End of the day... I do love Final Fantasy, but no single FF has really broken through like many other franchises have. God of War on PS4 sold more just on that console (not including PC) than FFXV did on everything. A good comparison is FF7, which sold 14 million since 1997 despite being ported to so many systems. FF hasn't broken into the mainstream appeal other franchises have, and I think it's possible for whatever reason, this hasn't broken through yet to what their expectations for FF are. 

[Paperclyp]

I tend to not preorder things unless I have a chance to play them prior or if I have an immense amount of faith in the project. 
 

In this game’s case, it’s unlikely that I’d ever buy it for more than 30 bucks or so unless it blows everyone’s minds.

[Bacon]

@Brian

I feel like there is a fair amount of overlap from the circles I am a part of. There are so many genuine FF fans out there who play FF14. I've seen Reddit comments on the FF14 subreddit with people being excited to play 16. In the FF14 section of another forum, there are always people posting about FF16 any time a new trailer drops. There are FF14 streamers who have played every FF and are going to be playing 16. There are enough people outspokenly interested that I am worried about casual spoilers if I don't play it at launch.

 

On top of all that, FF14 is an MMO where you don't need to play it all the time. This game is not like WoW where you spend every day doing some grind for the best loot. While a new patch just released, it's already over. Right now, for people who are caught up at max level, the only content they are still doing is the new hard mode raid. That is something that will need to be done weekly for the best gear of the expansion over a few weeks. Since it is only weekly and not daily, it shouldn't prevent them from playing other games. Also, this is the final gear tier of the expansion so they have until the next expansion to get the best gear. Ain't no rush. There is one more big patch that will come in the fall, but gearing is over for the hardcore raider. Most 14 players are already twiddling their thumbs and 16 launches at a time when most players have nothing to do. A July or August release would ensure every endgame player was out of content, but for the vast majority, this Is pretty much perfect timing for 16 to release. 

 

I'm sure there are a fair amount of 14 players who have never played another FF, but they probably won't be playing 14 for multiple hours a day by the time 16 releases either. 

[Bacon]

4 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

I talked to someone a month or so ago and they played 2 things, FF 14 and Genshin. If I asked if they were interested in playing some other game they would say they only have time for those two. So if that holds true for a lot of FF 14 fans they won't be making the jump.

Don't know shit about genshin, but I'd REALLY like to see what in FF14 is preventing them from playing other games. 

[Bacon]

So, I want to elaborate on the current character progression for the casual player or the reasons for them to log-in. Edit: I am ignoring self-imposed social reasons.

 

There is a currency that has a weekly cap of 450. That cap can be hit causally in 2-3 days with 2-3 hours of play in total or in one day if you do hunt trains which are super easy and only require you to use Discord. To get the best gear you can thru causal play you need 5,135 of that currency. That's about 11 and a half weeks of maxing currency which is easy to do. On top of that, you need to do the final boss of the current normal raid tier 7 times for 7 tokens which allows you to buy the weapon for your class. That will take you 5-10 minutes once a week.

 

Once you do all of that you will have no more gear progression until patch 6.5 which will happen in September or October I think. Once 6.5 comes out, while there is no new gear for you to obtain, you can now buy the raid-exclusive materials outside of the raid which upgrade the item level of your current gear. You will also be finished building your ultimate weapon of the expansion. 

 

Once you have the best gear you can get in 6.4 without doing the savage raids, the only reason to log-in is for really basic optional stuff. Send your retainers out daily for loot and money, takes 1 minute to do that. Maybe go to the Gold Saucer and do the daily scratchers for the special Gold Saucer currency, takes about 1 minute. Island Sanctuary upkeep which takes maybe 5-10 minutes depending on what you are doing.

 

With that said, the casual gamer stuff that interferes with playing FF16 is maxing tomes weekly and the 7 weeks of killing that one boss. Those 2-3 hours can be spread across the week for 30 minutes or less a day.  If you do that, you have the best non-raid gear at the earliest possible time. That said, there really is no rush unless you are the rare gamer who plans on doing savage raiding once you get that next-to-BiS gear set. You have all the way until the next expansion to obtain the best gear now.

 

There are things to be done during the launch of FF16, but it really is only 30 minutes a day at most for the casual BiS gear. That is nothing that should prevent you from playing FF16 if you wanted to. Only the most addicted player who needs Savage level BiS for every role could say that FF14 takes up too much time.

 

[Remarkableriots]

1 hour ago, Bacon said:

Don't know shit about genshin, but I'd REALLY like to see what in FF14 is preventing them from playing other games. 

Both are MMOs with daily and weekly activities to do as well as group content.

[Bacon]

7 hours ago, JPDunks4 said:

I don't know much about FF14, but knowing it's an MMO I was always curious why people would think that's success would translate to a single player FF.

There is a common saying among the FF14 community that FF14 is an RPG first and an MMO second. What that means is that FF14's MMO aspects are often taking a backseat to the Main Story Quests. There are plenty of people who only log-in to play the MSQ because there is no other story-driven adventure that follows your character for over 10 years. There really is nothing else like FF14's MSQ. It could only really be done in an MMO since it is technically a live service game. I suppose SWTOR comes close, but it ultimately fails because you have to have multiple characters to play every class. With one character you can experience everything FF14 has to offer including every class. Shadowbringers has one of the best stories in gaming in general. If Shadowbringers was a standalone FF, it would probably be considered the best FF by many people. Of course, what also made Shadowbringers so good was the 7+ years of story that all led up to it. You and your character go through a lot to get to that point and it just makes it a far better experience than if you just started with Shadowbringers.

 

Part of me wants to say, if you are a huge FF fan, play FF14's MSQ while doing the raid content along the way. The gameplay is fairly minimal, and all/most of the mandatory dungeon content can be don't with AI party members now. The only times you have to play with people now are when it comes to trials and raids. But that is also a 100-300 hour journey of mostly walking from point A to point B while reading and watching cutscenes. It is a big commitment even playing leisurely and even tho there ain't nothin' else like it, you may not like it.

 

But like man, there is this one moment at the end of 5.0 that just simply the best moment in a video game I have ever experienced.

I'm gonna post it in this spoiler. It's just an image out of context but holy fuck this is my personal favorite moment in gaming history. 

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[thedarkstark]

Live service games are a 2nd job, I'll never play one ever again. They can be fun but because there are so many people who no-life it, they have to pad out content by making things extremely grindy, and by having daily login rewards etc.

 

"F2P games" like Genshin are even worse because they're loaded with micro-transactions and lootboxes, which is going to cost the average person $100's of dollars a month to keep up. Meanwhile people will defend it being like "I'm F2P and I have everything bro!" while they sit in their mom's basement playing 80 hours a week. Yeah no shit you have everything, you haven't had a job in 10 years Travis and please wash your Hatsune Miku body pillow it fucking stinks!

[Bacon]

1 hour ago, thedarkstark said:

They can be fun but because there are so many people who no-life it, they have to pad out content by making things extremely grindy, and by having daily login rewards etc.

FF14 is not this way for the MSQ. There is absolutely no reason to no-life it unless you are just having that much fun. There are no daily log-in rewards outside of gil/gold by doing roulettes(no handouts). The MSQ is 95% a single-player game and I'm not even joking. It's still a big commitment at 100-300 hours. And, I mean, sure, there is the standard MMO content but most of that comes after the MSQ. Yoshi-P wants you to play other games, and FF14 is known for content droughts. They also removed the biggest grind-type in this expansion, which is for the optional relic weapons that are only BiS at the end of an expansion when there is no more new content, and all you need to do for one is a story-driven side quest series and buy some materials from an NPC. 

 

Yeah, it does take 11.5 weeks for BiS casual gear but you don't have to bother with that if you are just in it for the MSQ. There are a few item-level requirements but those are easy to keep up with, no grinding required. And as I said those 11.5 weeks have you only playing for 2-3 hours a week at most if you want the causal gear. 

 

I know FF14 is an MMO, but as I said, it is an RPG first. Nothing about it is a job unless you turn it into one. 

 

Edit: Roulettes aren't Roulette. It is a method of doing old and new content that give daily bonus rewards in the form of currency. Two types of tombstones for weapons and armor, and gil. Roulettes came to exist because people weren't running old content and new players had long queue times. With the roulette system, you can obtain modern rewards for running old or even new content, chosen at random based on roulette type. You do not get the tombstones just handed to you. It is not a log-in bonus. It isn't something you do every day unless you want the extra gil and there are far better methods of obtaining gil. Generally, once you cap your tomes you stop doing roulettes for the week. I don't even do roulettes. I just do hunt trains to get my tomes.

[Keyser_Soze]

4 hours ago, thedarkstark said:

"F2P games" like Genshin are even worse because they're loaded with micro-transactions and lootboxes, which is going to cost the average person $100's of dollars a month to keep up. Meanwhile people will defend it being like "I'm F2P and I have everything bro!" while they sit in their mom's basement playing 80 hours a week. Yeah no shit you have everything, you haven't had a job in 10 years Travis and please wash your Hatsune Miku body pillow it fucking stinks!

 

It is true Genshin is loaded with microtransactions but you don't need to spend 100s dollars a month to "keep up" It's generally a single player game with a lot of single player monthly events but there's no reason to spend money on them. The Battle Pass (Gnostic Hymn) is $9.99 a month and probably a good value early on but after doing it so many times it's not as useful. That being said it's completely reasonable to pay 10 a month for a little bit on this game. If you're a completionist who blows all their primogems trying to roll for every character yeah then you could drop a lot of money into the game, but normal people don't need to do that.

 

As for Bacon's question, I can't really say. It sounded like they were fairly new to the game, but max level, but do raids every week with friends or something. And like I said Genshin is always pumping out fresh content. I could see a person just rolling with those two.

[Bacon]

20 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

but do raids every week with friends

Prog is time-consuming but reclears shouldn't be. Casual prog groups can take weeks to fully clear. Tho, if they are new, there is A LOT to catch up on if they didn't do the relevant content as they leveled. Still, both of the games really aren't so demanding they you can't take a break from playing them to play something else. People use live service games just as an excuse, IMO. That's fine, but it is misplaced fomo.

[thedarkstark]

17 hours ago, Bacon said:

 People use live service games just as an excuse, IMO. That's fine, but it is misplaced fomo.

 

Yes, that's exactly the issue. These games are intentionally designed to prey on people with addictive tendencies and monopolize their time with fomo. Like they literally have conferences on the human psyche and how to prey upon it which again the loot box games are even worse because they're looking for "whales" who might be spending every dime they have.

 

Gambling addiction is a very real thing that runs a lot if lives. I've never gambled in my life because I know what type of personality I have, but I've played a few of the "ultimate team" modes in sports games and ended up spending hundreds of dollars I wont buy another. The daily login and fomo stuff scratches a similar itch for me and many others, but it eventually just becomes literally a job that is not fun but you do it because sunk cost.

 

I'm not going to judge anyone who plays these games maybe they have more restraint than I do but again they're intentionally designed to target people who don't.

[Bacon]

FF14 doesn't have anything like that tho.

[best3444]

FF14 was and still is an incredible mmo. 16 should be one of the better sp FF games in a long while from what I've read and seen. I'm excited.

[thedarkstark]

1 hour ago, Bacon said:

FF14 doesn't have anything like that tho.

I haven't played but there's like no chance it doesn't have RNG loot drops (some with exceptionally low %) and paid cosmetics. When I played WoW I was obsessed with getting all the mounts, I spent an ungodly amount of time running dungeons/raids and staking out the ultra-rare spawning ones (time-lost proto-drake, phosphorescent stone drake). And this was all before games were intentionally malicious.

 

Just because you personally aren't susceptible to the fomo doesnt mean it doesn't exist. That's why damn near every game now has a battle pass, they want your $10 but what they really want is your time because studies have shown the more time you play the more likely you are to spend money on things like cosmetics.

 

I want to go back to the days where people were outraged at horse armor.

 

Sorry for ranting I'm sure ff14 is one of the least egregious offenders. I'm just really annoyed at the state of gaming and late-stage capitalism.

 

 

 

 

[Bacon]

3 minutes ago, thedarkstark said:

I haven't played but there's like no chance it doesn't have RNG loot drops (some with exceptionally low %) and paid cosmetics.

That's not fomo tho. The RNG loot drops don't really exist for non-gear items in high-end content and there isn't a weekly lockout requiring you to level 10 alts for a decent chance. The final boss of the savage raid tier always drops the mount 100%. Only RNG comes from your roll on the item. Yeah, there is a cash shop but that's not fomo nor is character power sold on there. Nor are the lootboxes or RNG or a battle pass. You can't even access the cash shop in game with FFXIV.

 

I mean, sure, hate it all you want, but it ain't fomo.  I don't consider FFXIV's cash shop predatory since they aren't coming out with limited-time items unlike WoW where they Disney vault their shit.

 

 

[Bacon]

And rare-spawns as they exist in WoW don't exist in FFXIV. No mounts like the time-lost proto-drake or heavenly onyx cloud serpent either. FFXIV is really big on do the thing and get the reward. It's not that RNG stuff doesn't exist but that RNG stuff actually pretty rare and limited to specific grindy side content.

[Bacon]

2 hours ago, thedarkstark said:

Sorry for ranting 

Nothing wrong with ranting, I do it often! I just really love the story of 14 and want others to experience it if they can find the time. It is a shame it is hidden in an MMO, which is why I go out of my way to explain that you don't have to engage in the standard MMO content to enjoy it. The only time you have to play with people now is in 8-man content and a few specific dungeons. Pretty much every mandatory dungeon can now be completed with NPC party members and they NEVER mess up mechanics.

[legend]

 Unless it tanks in reviews I'm getting it.

[BloodyHell]

All I know is that everything I've seen looks great. They did an incredible job with VIIR,XIV has been on point, even though I haven't been able to complete Endwalker yet, but I'm getting there and I love it so far. Everything I've seen from XVI looks incredible, and it's definitely the game I was most looking forward to this year. 

 

I have absolutely no problem with them not doing turn based combat. Just don't care, as long as the world and story are interesting and the game is fun. VIIR was a blast, and I expect this to have much better gameplay. I need to replay that when the date for Rebirth is announced. 

[BloodyHell]

On 6/3/2023 at 11:29 AM, JPDunks4 said:

 

I don't know much about FF14, but knowing it's an MMO I was always curious why people would think that's success would translate to a single player FF.

 

Most of the people I know that are into MMOs are not the least bit interested in a big single player title.  The stories also have nothing to do with each other, right?

 

I still think this games gonna sell fine though.  I've seen hints on Twitter of people I assume are playing it and they all seem to be obsessed with it.

Previewers played 6 hour demos and loved it. 

[Bacon]

Yeah, ultimately, how good the game is for me is based on how much I enjoy the plot. I can forgive a lot with a fantastic story.

[thedarkstark]

1 hour ago, Bacon said:

Yeah, ultimately, how good the game is for me is based on how much I enjoy the plot. I can forgive a lot with a fantastic story.

I think like 95% of video game stories range between horrendously bad & corny but entertaining. Ocassionally there are some gems like the Last of Us but I don't really understand the "play video games for the story" crowd. Netflix originals wouldn't even throw money at this garbage 😴

 

It seems like they put a heavy focus on the story in this one but I have very low expectations.

[Bacon]

I think most video games have good stories. And I actually don't care for most Sony exclusive titles like TLOU. I mean, when you play-thru a story, it is a different feeling than just watching a show, or reading a book. You can prefer that, even I read a lot, but I like the way games are told. It is enjoyable to be a part of the story.

 

That is actually what makes FF14 so good. Legit, make a self-insert character for FF14 and by the time ShB comes around, you'll be heavily invested in your character and it is a one-of-a-kind experience.