Roe v. Wade is dead

[Guest]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

The debate about when a person becomes a person is one that can never be answered.  But, IMHO, is mostly tangential to the debate.

 

The fundamental discussion on the morality of being pro-choice vs. pro-life should be on how willing you are to push your own morality onto others.

 

I believe that life begins at conception.  However, I recognize that other people don't share my belief, and have valid reasons (that I disagree with) for believing that it starts at a different point in time.  It would be hubris to think that my point-of-view on this should trump everyone else's.

 

Being pro-choice recognizes that your own morals should not be enforced on the rest of society.

It isn’t tangential in the slightest. All legal systems are an imposition of morality on society. If the pre-born is a human person, the right to abort becomes a competing rights issue and the right to life most often wins. If the pre-born is not a human person, there is legitimately no reason to limit abortion ever for any reason.

 

[Kal-El814]

Just now, sblfilms said:

It isn’t tangential in the slightest. All legal systems are an imposition of morality on society. If the pre-born is a human person, the right to abort becomes a competing rights issue and the right to life most often wins. If the pre-born is not a human person, there is legitimately no reason to limit abortion ever for any reason.

 

There are myriad opinions on when it is acceptable to end the lives of born human people, too, though.

[Guest]

Just now, Kal-El814 said:

 

There are myriad opinions on when it is acceptable to end the lives of born human people, too, though.

Yes, and where do you think abortion fits into our legal rubric if the pre-both are considered human people? It is plainly obvious.

[Kal-El814]

1 minute ago, sblfilms said:

Yes, and where do you think abortion fits into our legal rubric if the pre-both are considered human people? It is plainly obvious.

 

Given the number of people who want to dehumanize and deny sustenance/aid/shelter to other, actual living humans all the time, I’m not entirely sure how obvious this is.  But I know what you’re getting at.

[osxmatt]

1 hour ago, finaljedi said:

 

Finally true renewable energy

[CitizenVectron]

Meta tells employees to stop discussing abortion at work

WWW.THEVERGE.COM

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Meta says the topic can "leave people feeling like they’re being targeted based on their gender or religion."

 

100% it's men feeling like they are being targeted because they are men.

[Subzwari1987]

1 hour ago, finaljedi said:

 

So they have moved from “Abortions are used for stem cell research” to “Abortions are used to power street lights”. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Just now, CitizenVectron said:

Meta tells employees to stop discussing abortion at work

WWW.THEVERGE.COM

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Meta says the topic can "leave people feeling like they’re being targeted based on their gender or religion."

 

100% it's men feeling like they are being targeted because they are men.

Shouldn’t be discussing politics at work anyway, but the worst part of this is finding out their address is 1 Hacker Way

[stepee]

Just now, Subzwari1987 said:

So they have moved from “Abortions are used for stem cell research” to “Abortions are used to power street lights”. 

 

Since everything is projection with these people, I’m quite alarmed.

[silentbob]

2 minutes ago, Subzwari1987 said:

So they have moved from “Abortions are used for stem cell research” to “Abortions are used to power street lights”. 

Can’t wait until we get to the portion when they are now being used like batteries and use The Matrix as their video proof

[Subzwari1987]

4 minutes ago, silentbob said:

Can’t wait until we get to the portion when they are now being used like batteries and use The Matrix as their video proof

Wouldn’t be the first time people have used The Matrix for their batshit movements (like redpill)

[johnny]

your birthday is the day you're born not the day you're conceived. checkmate

[stepee]

20 minutes ago, johnny said:

your birthday is the day you're born not the day you're conceived. checkmate

 

which begs the question, does it count as being born if you die for a few seconds and come back to life like some rock stars do? do you get a death certificate that ends the previous life and a new birth certificate at the start of the new life? abortion is an issue really close to my heart so I think about these important questions a lot.

[Kal-El814]

25 minutes ago, stepee said:

which begs the question, does it count as being born if you die for a few seconds and come back to life like some rock stars do? do you get a death certificate that ends the previous life and a new birth certificate at the start of the new life? abortion is an issue really close to my heart so I think about these important questions a lot.

 

As a c-section baby, I was technically never born.

[stepee]

8 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

As a c-section baby, I was technically never born.

 

So does that make you an abortion yourself? If that is the case, why are you against abortion..isn’t that a bit self loathing?

[skillzdadirecta]

3 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

 

Being pro-choice recognizes that your own morals should not be enforced on the rest of society.

BOOM this is it right here. All of this other shit is inconsequential because at the end of the day, nobody knows definitively the answer to these questions. What this debate is about, again, is one side trying to force THEIR truth on others and using that belief to tell a segment of the population (women) how they can treat their own bodies, which is completely and totally hypocritical for a group that claims to be about "individual freedoms." All of this other talk, again, is intellectual masturbation and is both boring and irritating because it completely avoids the issue at hand.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

13 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

As a c-section baby, I was technically never born.

Not natural born, ergo not a natural born citizen, so sorry you can be president 

[Chollowa]

This isn't the same thing but your gestational age includes approximately 2 weeks where neither egg nor sperm have met. It also includes the 2-5 day period of pre implantation.  So could they make a law prosecuting any woman that is just attempting unsuccessfully to get pregnant? Are they gonna start investigating chemical pregnancy losses for women/couples that get overzealous and post the faint positives only to miscarry 2 days later? I don't know but they are leaving a bunch of stuff up to interpretation and they seem to be legislating from a place that is wholly ignorant of how doctors look at gestation.

[Jason]

5 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Not natural born, ergo not a natural born citizen, so sorry you can be president 

 

But they still issue C-section babies birth certificates RRREEEEEEEE

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

4 minutes ago, Chollowa said:

...they seem to be legislating from a place that is wholly ignorant of how doctors look at gestation.

 

It's not that they "seem" to be doing this.  They ARE doing this.

[Kal-El814]

12 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

But they still issue C-section babies birth certificates RRREEEEEEEE

 

I have one of these, so sorry.

 

 

As an aside, while I was googling “hatch certificate” for this gem of a joke, I stumbled across this relevant website, so this wasn’t a complete waste of time.

 

Parrots - Info and Care, Parrot Photos Facts Videos Links - Planned Parrothood

WWW.PLANNEDPARROTHOOD.COM

 

 

 

[skillzdadirecta]

3 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

This is an important point, and I think one that gets lost in a lot of polling about views on abortion: there are a lot of people who are individually against abortion, but also believe that it should still be the choice of the mother.

A lot of catholics and other religious folks in particular.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Chollowa said:

This isn't the same thing but your gestational age includes approximately 2 weeks where neither egg nor sperm have met. It also includes the 2-5 day period of pre implantation.  So could they make a law prosecuting any woman that is just attempting unsuccessfully to get pregnant? Are they gonna start investigating chemical pregnancy losses for women/couples that get overzealous and post the faint positives only to miscarry 2 days later? I don't know but they are leaving a bunch of stuff up to interpretation and they seem to be legislating from a place that is wholly ignorant of how doctors look at gestation.

 

9 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

It's not that they "seem" to be doing this.  They ARE doing this.

All of the abortion laws that have been passed in the last couple of years that I have read specifically define gestational age like this in a recent Texas law

 

Quote

”Gestational age" means the amount of time that has elapsed from the first day of a woman’s last menstrual period.

 

[silentbob]

2 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

As a c-section baby, I was technically never born.

[Kal-El814]

2 minutes ago, silentbob said:

 

A hugely missed opportunity to show the c-section man emerging from the tent feet first. Embarrassing.

[Smith]

 

[CitizenVectron]

I mean, she's correct in the context in which she's speaking—if she believes that someone born with birth-giving organs can identify as male, then a man can give birth. Obviously as a sound bite it will completely live rent free in the minds of right-wing people.

[SimpleG]

4 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

I mean, she's correct in the context in which she's speaking—if she believes that someone born with birth-giving organs can identify as male, then a man can give birth. Obviously as a sound bite it will completely live rent free in the minds of right-wing people.

You are screaming into the void buddy.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

I mean, she's correct in the context in which she's speaking—if she believes that someone born with birth-giving organs can identify as male, then a man can give birth. Obviously as a sound bite it will completely live rent free in the minds of right-wing people.

This board for being so progressive sure does mix up sex and gender a lot.

[stepee]

5 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

I mean, she's correct in the context in which she's speaking—if she believes that someone born with birth-giving organs can identify as male, then a man can give birth. Obviously as a sound bite it will completely live rent free in the minds of right-wing people.

 

Ill give them credit for at least leaving in some of the context within the posted clip and only cutting out the context in the written tweet itself.

[Kal-El814]

24 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

This board for being so progressive sure does mix up sex and gender a lot.

 

As someone who works at a place that routinely does genomic cancer screening, I can confirm this happens everywhere and is done by everyone, including geneticists, molecular biologists, etc. :p

 

I'd also add that people's understanding of biological sex is typically incomplete too, but I don't think that's especially surprising either.

[CitizenVectron]

29 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

This board for being so progressive sure does mix up sex and gender a lot.

 

I'm not mixing it up, I was giving the answerer the benefit of the doubt on what they were trying to answer (and how the question was meant to trip them up).

[Guest]

Oklahoma abortion ban legislation is among's nation's strictest, heads to governor's desk - CNNPolitics

AMP.CNN.COM

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Oklahoma's legislature on Thursday passed a bill that would ban abortions from the stage of "fertilization" and allow private citizens to sue abortion providers who "knowingly" perform or induce an...

 

Quote

Oklahoma's legislature on Thursday passed a bill that would ban abortions from the stage of "fertilization" and allow private citizens to sue abortion providers who "knowingly" perform or induce an abortion "on a pregnant woman." 

The legislation is among the nation's strictest bills on abortion and is a clear rebuke of the protections granted in the landmark 1973 case Roe v. Wade, with abortion rights advocates vowing to mount a legal challenge should it be signed into law. The bill prohibits abortions at any stage of pregnancy, with exceptions for medical emergencies or if the pregnancy was a result of rape, sexual assault or incest and reported to law enforcement. 

 

HB 4327 defines "fertilization" as "the fusion of a human spermatozoon with a human ovum." Though the bill considers a pregnancy to begin at fertilization, and not implantation, the bill does not restrict the use of forms of contraception that prevent a fertilized egg from implanting in a uterus. According to the bill, abortion "does not include the use, prescription, administration, procuring, or selling of Plan B, morning-after pills, or any other type of contraception or emergency contraception."

That is quite the needle they are threading

[Kal-El814]

How in god's name do they intend to enforce that or prove date of fertilization.

[LazyPiranha]

Kiss IVF goodbye Oklahoma.