Keyser_Soze Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Which GOPer will run a presidential campaign on returning to Afghanistan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 uhh too late? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaxick Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Keyser_Soze said: And now the GOP is doing what they do best, and attempting to erase their history and tell their loyal base, we played no role in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePi Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Posted without comment. 3TBMZUFGQxoTBGOC Trim GIF | Gfycat GFYCAT.COM Watch and share 3TBMZUFGQxoTBGOC Trim GIFs on Gfycat 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Chinese state media says Afghanistan a lesson for Taiwan on how U.S. abandons allies WWW.NEWSWEEK.COM "Some historians also point out that abandoning allies to protect U.S. interests is an inherent flaw that has been deeply rooted in the U.S. since the founding of the country," the editorial... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Canada has also been an example of how the US has abandoned allies (in a different way). The Ukraine is another -- in pretty much the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: Canada has also been an example of how the US has abandoned allies (in a different way). The Ukraine is another -- in pretty much the same way. 100%. US advantage in the present electoral cycle is the only thing that the US can be relied upon for. The world needs to see that, if it already doesn't. You think the US would even defend Germany if Russia rolled through eastern Europe tomorrow? Depends on who is President, who controls the House or Senate, and who is running for election in the next cycle! There is no long-term plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Just now, CitizenVectron said: 100%. US advantage in the present electoral cycle is the only thing that the US can be relied upon for. The world needs to see that, if it already doesn't. You think the US would even defend Germany if Russia rolled through eastern Europe tomorrow? Depends on who is President, who controls the House or Senate, and who is running for election in the next cycle! There is no long-term plan. I don't think that is even the case anymore. There was a large media expectation that Canada's relationship with the US would improve under Biden -- it largely hasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 22 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: Canada has also been an example of how the US has abandoned allies (in a different way). The Ukraine is another -- in pretty much the same way. I think specifically they are referring to how France armed the Revolutionary army and then we didn't come to France's aid during the revolution. Another example for your list is not helping Mexico during the French Intervention where they took over and imposed a dictator for ~8 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodporne Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 16 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: This was shockingly harsh rhetoric to be levelled against people who were ostensibly our former allies and I bet that it has caused more than a few in the international community to sit up and notice. One former US diplomat on Al-Jazeera has commented it appeared from that speech that Biden seemed to have "disdain" for the Afghan people and not just the government/military. I listened to it live, have been following the coverage for the past few days, and I completely agree. I had just finished listening to an interview with an ex-translator describing what the promises vs. reality now ended up being and on comes Biden, sounding defensive, dismissive and arrogant. The tone and message of it were truly shit and, to me at least, barely more tactful or thoughtful sounding than the Trump years, if at all. Also, the air of "why am I being bothered with this shit" seemed palpable and especially in hindsight considering his ass got back to vacationing right after apparently. The international community should be sitting up and noticing, and they seem to be doing so, because that was fucking pathetic and the icing on the cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Just now, SuperSpreader said: I think specifically they are referring to how France armed the Revolutionary army and then we didn't come to France's aid during the revolution. Another example is not helping Mexico during the French Intervention where they took over and imposed a dictator for ~8 years. The view of the US as a leader and worthwhile ally really cemented itself in the post-WWII era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 Ukraine isn't an ally and neither was Afghanistan. Some of the people in these places had similar interests, and in the case of Afghanistan we need to get these people out, but they're not allies. That said, outside of Israel (lmao) there are basically no relationships with the US that can even somewhat be guaranteed to cross administrations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Ukraine isn't an ally and neither was Afghanistan. Some of the people in these places had similar interests, and in the case of Afghanistan we need to get these people out, but they're not allies. That said, outside of Israel (lmao) there are basically no relationships with the US that can even somewhat be guaranteed to cross administrations I feel like UK/France/Germany have been steady allies for a century now? Even with Trump and all his bluster, we were never enemies with Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 14 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: The view of the US as a leader and worthwhile ally really cemented itself in the post-WWII era. "Some historians also point out that abandoning allies to protect U.S. interests is an inherent flaw that has been deeply rooted in the U.S. since the founding of the country," Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, SaysWho? said: we were never enemies with Canada. @CitizenVectron will decide who is enemies with Canada. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Bloodporne said: The international community should be sitting up and noticing, and they seem to be doing so, because that was fucking pathetic and the icing on the cake. It actually got the Conservatives and Labour in the UK on the same bloody page. UK politicians decry Joe Biden’s defence of Afghanistan pullout | Foreign policy | The Guardian WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM Senior Tory and Labour MPs united in their criticism of US president’s approach to Afghan crisis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: It actually got the Conservatives and Labour in the UK on the same bloody page. UK politicians decry Joe Biden’s defence of Afghanistan pullout | Foreign policy | The Guardian WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM Senior Tory and Labour MPs united in their criticism of US president’s approach to Afghan crisis Fuck the UK tho 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Quote “The more you reflect, the more you realise the speech [Biden] gave last night was grotesque. An utter repudiation of the America so many of us have admired so deeply all our lives – the champion of liberty and democracy and the guardian of what’s right in the world,” he said. We were never that tho everyone is upset about the truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: We were never that tho everyone is upset about the truth Quote "After [Biden’s] speech last night, it’s time to wake up and smell the coffee,” he tweeted. “The US will remain a key ally where its vital interests are involved, but neither Democrats nor Republicans any longer believe the US should be the world’s policeman. “The lesson for Europeans is clear. Whoever is president, the US is unlikely to offer the same support that it used to in parts of the world where its vital interests are not involved. Europeans are going to have to develop the capability to intervene without US support. That’s not going to be cheap. And the EU and Britain are going to have to work out how to cooperate on this because we face the same threats.” What is happening to many in Afghanistan is tragic (and Biden's attitude regarding their sacrifice is terrible) but it is not an important country for the US to maintain an indefinite deployment. Sorry. And that the Taliban took over so quickly and relatively bloodlessly (compared to block by block civil war in the streets of Kandahar and Kabul, et al) is good for European security as there's less chance of widescale migrants like what you have/had seen out of Syria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 To me it reads as s bunch of Brits using faux outrage to justify military spending. Sounds American, that's because they're the same fucking idiots. There is zero difference between the Brits and traditional (white) "Americans" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 hour ago, SaysWho? said: I feel like UK/France/Germany have been steady allies for a century now? Even with Trump and all his bluster, we were never enemies with Canada. Canadians believed they had a special relationship with the US, with a unique friendship-- and that we would both act in each other's best interests. I grew up with that notion (and everyone else I know did as well). There is a marked difference between friendship and being allies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Afghanistan's (former?) vice-president declares himself to be the "legitimate" caretaker president and announces armed resistance to Taliban regime. He's currently holed up in the Panjshir Valley, the last remaining area not under Taliban control. Defiant Afghan ex-VP vows new fight with Taliban - France 24 WWW.FRANCE24.COM Defiant Afghan ex-VP vows new fight with Taliban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 43 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: What is happening to many in Afghanistan is tragic (and Biden's attitude regarding their sacrifice is terrible) but it is not an important country for the US to maintain an indefinite deployment. Sorry. And that the Taliban took over so quickly and relatively bloodlessly (compared to block by block civil war in the streets of Kandahar and Kabul, et al) is good for European security as there's less chance of widescale migrants like what you have/had seen out of Syria. The disagreement isn't the notion of a withdrawal nor a relatively rapid one. The disagreement is with the way that it's been executed when practically everyone and their mother knew that the collapse of the Afghan government would be pretty damned quick once the American military umbrella was removed. Biden attempted a slick sleight-of-hand in his speech yesterday when he framed the criticism coming his way as being rooted in the very idea of a withdrawal itself rather than the way that it's been conducted. I just don't know if it actually worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 3 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said: The Ukraine is another -- in pretty much the same way. If you want to avoid having a Ukrainian spontaneously combust, don't use "the" in front of the country's name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: I just don't know if it actually worked. It appears that it didn't. Democrats offer some harsh reviews of Biden on Afghanistan - The Washington Post WWW.WASHINGTONPOST.COM "A failure to prepare." "A lack of imagination." "Our dire warnings fell on deaf ears." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 2 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said: Canadians believed they had a special relationship with the US, with a unique friendship-- and that we would both act in each other's best interests. I grew up with that notion (and everyone else I know did as well). There is a marked difference between friendship and being allies. Maybe it is from being on the opposite side of the country from Canada, but growing up Canada’s relationship with America wasn’t a remote thought. Our relationship with the European powers, and even Israel were in the ether. I wonder if it is different for those who grew up in the northern US states? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, 2021: Quote Noting the panicked scenes in Kabul over the past few days, Sullivan suggests it was expected, saying "when a civil war comes to an end... there are going to be scenes of chaos". "That is not something that can be fundamentally avoided," he says. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 2003: Quote The looting, he suggested, was "part of the price" for what the United States and Britain have called the liberation of Iraq. Looting, he added, was not uncommon for countries that experience significant social upheaval. "Stuff happens," Rumsfeld said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 Is the transition to the Taliban really as bad as the immediate aftermath of the state of Iraq after the US invasion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Is the transition to the Taliban really as bad as the immediate aftermath of the state of Iraq after the US invasion? It's definitely not nearly as chaotic. I'm merely pointing the similarity of "language" being used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 Just the man we needed to chime in 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Biden's speech on Afghanistan fact-checked - BBC News The TLDR -- The BBC doesn't agree that Biden's speech was truthful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 36 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Just the man we needed to chime in since it was “mission accomplished” so many years ago, he’s probably surprised to find out there was any problem in Afghanistan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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