General Gaming Ninja Gaiden Master Collection revealed (PS4, Switch, Series X, Steam)

[heydude93]

 

[stepee]

Oh this is coming to pc not just switch. Nice.

[legend]

Please be FPS unlocked on PC.

[Bloodporne]

Nothing Master or Ultimate about this only including the Sigma versions.

 

Got super excited for a minute until I looked into it more and it turns out it's a Sigma-only collection. That went from 100 to 0 quick.

[heydude93]

How good/bad the changes are in the Sigma editions mostly comes down to personal taste but hopefully the bafflingly awful water effects in Sigma 1 and the purple mist "gore" in  2 are updated if nothing else.  The blood was added back into Sigma 2 on Vita, so it's possible.

 

So far this looks like basic PS3 port...but even if it is at this point I'll take it. There's still no other action game that plays like any version of the 3D Ninja Gaiden's

[Keyser_Soze]

2 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

Nothing Master or Ultimate about this only including the Sigma versions.

 

Got super excited for a minute until I looked into it more and it turns out it's a Sigma-only collection. That went from 100 to 0 quick.

 

Not into the Rachel missions?

[Greatoneshere]

15 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

Nothing Master or Ultimate about this only including the Sigma versions.

 

Got super excited for a minute until I looked into it more and it turns out it's a Sigma-only collection. That went from 100 to 0 quick.

 

Other than a few annoying quibbles, the Sigma versions are better and I liked the OG Ninja Gaiden and Ninja Gaiden Black a lot. Sigma made a number of improvements in terms of a few things, as well as having more features, missions, etc. It's a more complete package, barring what @heydude93 mentioned, which I do hope they fix.

 

Very happy to see these coming to PC. 

[stepee]

Did Sigma 2 on vita put back the full gore including the dismemberment? Because if not and they don’t add it back here then NG2 on X/SX at 4k/60 ripping apart enemies is still probably the best place to play it. 

 

Edit: Didn’t they also reduce enemy count?

[Kal-El814]

Oh so these are the games from the Xbox era and onwards, and not the good ones from the arcade / NES. Hmm.

[Greatoneshere]

17 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

Oh so these are the games from the Xbox era and onwards, and not the good ones from the arcade / NES. Hmm.

 

The NES Ninja Gaiden series is excellent, but so are the modern Ninja Gaiden 1 + 2 - pretty much universal raves when they came out, critics and audiences alike. I hadn't heard of a person who didn't like the new ones (except Ninja Gaiden 3, but that's because creator Tomonobu Itakagaki had left the company when 2 released). 

[heydude93]

14 hours ago, stepee said:

Did Sigma 2 on vita put back the full gore including the dismemberment? Because if not and they don’t add it back here then NG2 on X/SX at 4k/60 ripping apart enemies is still probably the best place to play it. 

 

Edit: Didn’t they also reduce enemy count?

 

There was a comprehensive rundown in some reddit post but /ninjagaiden seems to be down right now so I can't link it.  Basically, some weapons were removed, some added. Less emphasis on fighting large waves of enemies vs small groups who are tougher to fight one on one, added chapters where you play as another character, some removed enemies, added ones like the statue of Liberty and Buddha statue, and other various minor tweaks and changes.  It's all pretty subjective in terms of whether they make the game better or worse, but the censorship of the stylish gore is the main thing most will agree sucks and shouldn't have been changed.  Oddly it was still in the Vita version, so it's possible it could appear again in the upcoming one. But all the gameplay footage of Sigma 2 in the trailers seems to go out of its way to show moments from fights where there wouldn't be any gore, so I'm doubtful.

[Kal-El814]

1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

The NES Ninja Gaiden series is excellent, but so are the modern Ninja Gaiden 1 + 2 - pretty much universal raves when they came out, critics and audiences alike. I hadn't heard of a person who didn't like the new ones (except Ninja Gaiden 3, but that's because creator Tomonobu Itakagaki had left the company when 2 released). 

 

Aah, whatever I typed for old got autocorrected to good somehow. I think I played sigma / whatever version came to the PS3 and liked it, but I had kinds burned out on character action games at that point, if I remember right, and never played any of the other ones.

[Paperclyp]

How difficult were these games, really? 

 

That was a time when almost every game had zero difficulty at all, so I could never quite gauge what these were like... 

[Raggit]

39 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:

How difficult were these games, really? 

 

That was a time when almost every game had zero difficulty at all, so I could never quite gauge what these were like... 

 

Don't know about the Sigma games, but NG Black was pretty challenging, until you get used to it. Once you do, the challenge was in the higher difficulty levels. One of the reasons I enjoyed replaying it on higher difficulties was because they introduced different enemies on the different levels, which were of course harder.

 

edit: I read that the AI in Sigma was improved (and harder) compared to Black.

 

I recently fired up NG Black on my OG Xbox. in 480p it still looks surprisingly decent. But I'm glad I'll be able to play it in higher res on my PC. Needless to say, I hope they don't fuck this up. But I'm preparing myself for a botched PC port, lol. As much as I loved NGB, I'll wait for reviews on this one.

 

edit 2: I just remembered the Dead or Alive series on PC. DOA5 was missing some cool console features and like $1000 worth of DLC, and DOA 6 has thousands of dollars worth of DLC. They better not fucking turn this into some lame attempt at a DLC cash cow too...

[Bloodporne]

You guys must be high, Sigma 2 butchered the original and it wasn't even that amazing to begin with compared to the first one.

 

They removed the insane gore and dismemberment, dialed down enemy counts majorly, increased health pools into sponge levels...the original had a certain flow of combat that was insane controlled chaos and actually fun. Sigma 2 plays much differently and is balanced even worse somehow. They removed portions of the levels even.

 

I own them both and Sigma 2 is way altered and worse and the original was already heavily flawed.

 

Sigma 1 isn't nearly as drastic but the original had a perfect flow and was a borderline impeccable game to me at least. When I bought Sigma, I didn't enjoy it quite as much as the original but It's nowhere near as much of a downgrade as Sigma 2. I just think the forced Rachel bits are lame specifically and they made some other goofy changes I didn't get the point of. 

 

I think for anyone new to the series, Sigma 1 is perfectly fine and really fun, I just think it's a slightly lesser version of a GOAT game. Sigma 2 on the other hand, jesus. And I've never played NG3 because the demo back in the day sucked too hard.

 

 

[Bloodporne]

1 hour ago, Paperclyp said:

How difficult were these games, really? 

 

That was a time when almost every game had zero difficulty at all, so I could never quite gauge what these were like... 

I haven't beaten NGB in a while but it definitely doesn't fuck around. Enemies are aggressive from the get-go and you can go down quickly. The game expects you to learn its systems and really take advantage of your high mobility.

[Raggit]

13 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

 

I think for anyone new to the series, Sigma 1 is perfectly fine and really fun, I just think it's a slightly lesser version of a GOAT game. 

 

 

 

This saddens me. At least I can still go back to NG Black... 

[Greatoneshere]

32 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

I think for anyone new to the series, Sigma 1 is perfectly fine and really fun, I just think it's a slightly lesser version of a GOAT game. Sigma 2 on the other hand, jesus. And I've never played NG3 because the demo back in the day sucked too hard.

 

It's not the be all, end all barometer but Sigma 2 is rated higher than the original Ninja Gaiden 2 on metacritic. Sigma 2 isn't as butchered as you suggest (I don't really care about gore, though it shouldn't have been changed) and it at times has better performance and graphics, according to reddit. There are tradeoffs, I grant, but I think it's an exaggeration the disparity you present, especially given metacritic (even the user scores are close, though the OG Gaiden 2 wins with a 8.0 vs. Sigma 2's 7.8).

[heydude93]

54 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

You guys must be high, Sigma 2 butchered the original and it wasn't even that amazing to begin with compared to the first one.

 

They removed the insane gore and dismemberment, dialed down enemy counts majorly, increased health pools into sponge levels...the original had a certain flow of combat that was insane controlled chaos and actually fun. Sigma 2 plays much differently and is balanced even worse somehow. They removed portions of the levels even.

 

I own them both and Sigma 2 is way altered and worse and the original was already heavily flawed.

 

Sigma 1 isn't nearly as drastic but the original had a perfect flow and was a borderline impeccable game to me at least. When I bought Sigma, I didn't enjoy it quite as much as the original but It's nowhere near as much of a downgrade as Sigma 2. I just think the forced Rachel bits are lame specifically and they made some other goofy changes I didn't get the point of. 

 

I think for anyone new to the series, Sigma 1 is perfectly fine and really fun, I just think it's a slightly lesser version of a GOAT game. Sigma 2 on the other hand, jesus. And I've never played NG3 because the demo back in the day sucked too hard.

 

 

 

I don't disagree about Sigma 2.  The original was attempting something quite different with it's grindhouse martial arts movie-inspired dismemberment and a combat system based on tackling massive amounts of enemies at once.  S2 ditched that in favor of a return to more of the same combat in part one.  I don't think it's bad per se, but it is more of the same whereas NG2 was trying something new, and that makes it reasonable to be disappointed.  

 

Regardless of how we feel though, Microsoft still owns the IP of Black and the original NG2, so those versions were never going to be in this collection.  But since gore was again added to the Vita port, maybe it will be present here, as unlikely as it seems (this collection definitely looks like it will be a portjob, similar to the Devil May Cry one)

[Bloodporne]

52 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

It's not the be all, end all barometer but Sigma 2 is rated higher than the original Ninja Gaiden 2 on metacritic. Sigma 2 isn't as butchered as you suggest (I don't really care about gore, though it shouldn't have been changed) and it at times has better performance and graphics, according to reddit. There are tradeoffs, I grant, but I think it's an exaggeration the disparity you present, especially given metacritic (even the user scores are close, though the OG Gaiden 2 wins with a 8.0 vs. Sigma 2's 7.8).

And I counter with it not being not as butchered as you suggest! Checkmate.

 

Did you play both games? Those are the actual differences, I didn't make it up. If those don't bother someone, of course that's a different story but I was appalled when I bought Sigma 2. I didn't check first and it was a quite different game. 

 

I just think it's goofy and I don't like that this is the 'ultimate' collection being released. Like I said, they're not bad games at all but the Sigma 2 changes especially should've warranted an inclusion of both versions.

 

BUT I also get why now. I didn't consider that yea, MS probably owns those originals. I just thought maybe it'd be all versions because it's also being released on Xbox and PC.

[Firewithin]

i think the last NG i played was back in the 360 days and i broke a controller from getting mad  

[GameDadGrant]

To me, this collection is absolute trash since it doesn't contain Dragon Sword. 

 

I don't care how impossible it would have been to port that game into this collection on modern hardware, it was the most fun game out of the 3D Ninja Gaiden series. 

 

 

[Captain Pickle]

1 hour ago, Firewithin said:

i think the last NG i played was back in the 360 days and i broke a controller from getting mad  

You were that guy ehhh?

 

I remember getting frustrated too

[The def star]

Well if it matters to anyone Ninja Gaiden Black and Ninja Gaiden 2 are backwards compatible with Xbox One X and Xbox Series X/S at 4k 60fps. Games look and run great.

[Keyser_Soze]

51 minutes ago, The def star said:

Well if it matters to anyone Ninja Gaiden Black and Ninja Gaiden 2 are backwards compatible with Xbox One X and Xbox Series X/S at 4k 60fps. Games look and run great.

 

And NGB is only 9.99! (I think it was GWG once too)

[Greatoneshere]

2 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

And I counter with it not being not as butchered as you suggest! Checkmate.

 

Did you play both games? Those are the actual differences, I didn't make it up. If those don't bother someone, of course that's a different story but I was appalled when I bought Sigma 2. I didn't check first and it was a quite different game. 

 

I just think it's goofy and I don't like that this is the 'ultimate' collection being released. Like I said, they're not bad games at all but the Sigma 2 changes especially should've warranted an inclusion of both versions.

 

BUT I also get why now. I didn't consider that yea, MS probably owns those originals. I just thought maybe it'd be all versions because it's also being released on Xbox and PC.

 

Hahaha you made it sound like it was pretty butchered! The word appalled is also pretty strong but I'll live.   I am well aware of the changes to both Sigma games, I know you're not making the changes up I just meant that the changes weren't deal breakers for me at least when the trade off were other things that I cared about more. I get that NG fans are split on this so I understand where you're coming from but they shouldn't be deal breakers I would think. Honestly I'm just happy to get the games on PC - 4K/60fps on max settings if the port is done right will be pretty bangin'.

[Keyser_Soze]

6 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Honestly I'm just happy to get the games on PC - 4K/60fps on max settings if the port is done right will be pretty bangin'.

 

If Nioh 2 is any indication you'll be waiting a bit for the 60fps.

[Greatoneshere]

1 minute ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

If Nioh 2 is any indication you'll be waiting a bit for the 60fps.

 

Presumably porting an older game should be easier but I wouldn't be surprised given Japanese company ports to PC generally speaking. It's weird because when I played Nioh 1 on PC that played buttery smooth as I recall.  

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, GameDadGrant said:

To me, this collection is absolute trash since it doesn't contain Dragon Sword. 

 

I don't care how impossible it would have been to port that game into this collection on modern hardware, it was the most fun game out of the 3D Ninja Gaiden series. 

 

Dragon Sword was a great game! But unlike OG Xbox, Xbox 360, and PS3 games (which still can't really be emulated easily or well), DS and 3DS games can be emulated on PC pretty well and pretty easily so you could play it that way if you so desired.

 

Except through Xbox backwards compatibility these games were locked on those legacy systems as I understand it. There's a ton of games for those three systems I'd love to emulate on my PC but just can't. Every other legacy system is really well accounted for (handheld systems included).

[The def star]

44 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

And NGB is only 9.99! (I think it was GWG once too)

Yeah both Black and NG2 were on game pass but recently taken off. Most likely because of this remaster version coming out.

[heydude93]

Heads up to anyone looking forward to this: 

- Apparently these are ports of the Vita editions, so don't get your hopes up for PS3-level visuals
- If Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 is ported from Vita it won't have the gore option according to a tweet from Team Ninja
- There might be some tweaks to difficulty settings (less challenging)
- Team Ninja says the source code for NGB and NG2 was lost, so those versions will only ever be on Xbox

 

So if you have an xbox you might want to consider skipping this release until more deets roll out

 

[heydude93]

Full Translation of Famitsu Interview with Fumihiko Yasuda of Team Ninja:

I was getting frustrated by the misinformation stemming from Team Ninja's abysmal communication with its PR teams, as well as some of the misinformation stemming from a "translation" of this interview that was going around here (which wasn't a translation of excerpts from the actual interview, but a translation of bullet points written by a blogger who read the interview).

So, since I live in Japan and know Japanese, I went out and bought the magazine and did a quick translation of the full interview. I hope this gives fans a clearer picture of this release and the circumstances surrounding this franchise.

Q: The Master Collection marks the first entry in the Ninja Gaiden series in 9 years since NG3RE. How do you feel now that this announcement has been made?
A: Although they’re ports, I’m happy about it. I feel really sorry about making fans wait for so long. I was really surprised by how big the reaction was to the announcement — it exceeded my expectations

Q: What led to the decision to port these three titles, and what do you hope to accomplish with this collection?
A: The Ninja Gaiden series, along with the Dead or Alive series, is a flagship title for Team Ninja. However, we haven’t been able to release a Ninja Gaiden title on the generation of consoles that includes the Nintendo Switch, Playstation 4, and Xbox One. This bothered me, and so I started the development [of this collection] just after we finished working on Nioh 2. This is the first PC release of the series, so we will be able to reach even more players. Also, we have new members of Team Ninja who grew up playing Ninja Gaiden, so I wanted to give them the chance to interact with Ninja Gaiden as developers.

Q: With regard to the titles in this collection, as a fan, I’m pleased by the decision to include 3RE over NG3.
A: 3 was the first title I worked on as director, and so I have a lot of memories working on it. But yeah, 3RE is definitely the one. [laughs]

Q: Sorry about that. [laughs] The first two titles are the Sigma versions. What is the reason for this?
A: To put it simply, they are the final versions, so that’s why we picked them. There is a lot of additional content, including additional playable characters. They also include content from the Vita Sigma Plus games, as well as other aspects that we weren’t able to fully optimize at the time, and so we are making thorough adjustments this time.

Q: As you probably know, there are fans who prefer BLACK and NG2.
A: Yes, I understand this is a controversial topic. 2 was the first title I worked on as a developer, so it’s important to me. But one reason we picked [Sigma] is because the data from that time is fragmented and in such a state that we wouldn’t be able to salvage it even if we tried. However, when we developed Sigma Plus and Sigma 2 Plus, we gathered and organized as much of that data as possible, which is another reason why we went with Sigma.

Q: This collection is a port, so does that mean it isn’t a remaster?
A: The assets are generally the same, but the games support Full HD and 4K with stable, improved frame rates. There won’t be a drastic leap in visual fidelity, but they are remastered titles optimized for each hardware. For the PC version, there is no mouse and keyboard support and it will only be playable with a controller.

Q: Did you make any adjustments to game balance?
A: We are fixing some bugs and some unreasonable aspects of the games, but we are generally taking a hands-off approach. Hero Mode, which was introduced in 3, will be added to Sigma and Sigma 2. There were a lot of players who found the games too difficult and had trouble enjoying them, so I think this will allow players who aren’t good at action games to finish all 3 titles. We’ve also adjusted the difficulty of the tag missions to allow players to finish them by themselves.

Q: I’m happy to hear that. Are the depictions of violence also based on Sigma?
A: Yes. The depictions of violence remain the same. The Version D for Nintendo Switch contains adjustments only for 3RE. We did this because we thought Switch users aren’t fond of gore. We did this to allow as many players as possible to enjoy the games.
\This is where the interviewer should have followed up to confirm whether Yasuda meant the depictions of violence are the same as Sigma Plus, but unfortunately, that didn’t happen.*

Q: The way you cut through bones is very grotesque. [laughs] The original versions supported online play, but these don’t, is that correct?
A: Unfortunately, this collection doesn’t support online play. I understand there are players who thoroughly enjoyed the co-op play, but the honest answer is that, because this includes three titles, we had to cut this out due to scheduling and business considerations. If we were to incorporate co-op play, the required labor would be comparable to that of working on a new title. However, other online functionalities, such as time attack rankings, will be supported.

Q: So players will compete with each other in the single player modes. In Sigma, you could do various things by shaking the controller. For example, you could power up ninpo or make the girls’ boobs jiggle.
A: Those were features unique to the Playstation 3 and its gyro sensor. Those were for Playstation 3, which is why they aren’t included in the collection. The ninpo will be powered up from the start. As for the boob jiggle mechanics, players who want to enjoy that can help themselves to those Venus Vacation games. [laughs]

Q: But Rachel isn’t in those games…. [laughs] Speaking of Rachel, she had a pretty weak impression in Sigma. Did you buff her or make her easier to use this time around?
A: No, she remains the same as in Sigma. She is power-oriented character, so although I understand she isn’t as agile, that’s part of her appeal. Momiji and Ayane from Sigma 2 also remain the same.

Q: Do you have any advice for new players to the series?
A: First, learn to guard. If you don’t, you will die very quickly. [laughs] However, this series has incredibly responsive controls, and so if you can master the controls, you can make Ryu Hayabusa fight in any way you please. Please enjoy the game while learning each and every action. There is also a rich variety of weapons at your disposal in all 3 games, so look for a weapon that suits you. If you aren’t good at action games, I recommend the hero mode.

Q: From your perspective, how do you regard each of these titles?
A: I wasn’t involved in the first game, but I heard its development was inspired by The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. This might sound ludicrous, but there were apparently plans to even include fishing mechanics. [laughs] In the end, it became action-oriented, but you can still see the influence in the puzzles, jumping actions, and exploration elements.

Q: I want to see Ryu fishing. [laughs]
A: It might happen someday. [laughs] 2 featured a lot of dismemberment and obliteration techniques, making it an even more action-oriented game. As for 3, although it had its ups and downs, with 3RE we updated the mechanics and made it a more balanced, comprehensive title. What I can say about all three titles is that enemies are coming to kill you. They are tough.

Q: Yeah, one could consider the Ninja Gaiden games as one of the first masochistic games.
A: The sense of accomplishment you get from overcoming a challenge after numerous attempts is something we also incorporated in Nioh. When I look at [Ninja Gaiden] now, I’m shocked by the game’s speed and how it pulls you along. But that’s the appeal of these games.

Q: Speaking of Nioh, the Hayabusa clan, and even Muramasa, make an appearance.
A: Ryu’s ancestors, Ren and Jin Hayabusa make an appearance in those games. The truth is, when we were thinking about the sequel, we decided on their family names first and added their surnames later. And when we decided to include Senji Muramasa, we couldn’t think of anyone but that Muramasa. [laughs] That old man fits any time period, so we just included him as he was depicted [in Ninja Gaiden]. Perhaps he is an ancestor.

Q: What is your impression of each title when you look back on their development?
A: I only observed [the development] of Sigma, but I remember people working on it late into the night. I started getting involved in the series with 2, and I created the first stage Sky City Tokyo. I didn’t really know the ins and outs of making a stage at the time, and I remember having numerous discussions with other members. When I play it now, I think to myself, “I should have done this instead,” but I thought through that level a lot and can still remember where all the enemies appear. With 3, we changed direction and received a lot of criticism. We somewhat redeemed ourselves with 3RE, but I still regret that we didn’t create a new title that was able to meet expectations. I would like to redeem myself with a sequel one day.

Q: With the release of this collection, is there a possibility of a sequel?
A: I want to be optimistic about that possibility while looking at the response and results of this collection. If it becomes a hit, then the possibility of a sequel will be even more likely. To be honest, we haven’t even come up with a plan for a sequel, but our team talks often about what we would do if we were to create one. While developing 3RE, we were reminded of what this series needs, and we want to approach it with the full understanding of what a Ninja Gaiden game should be. It will also be necessary to let the game evolve so that it keeps up with the times and changes in action games. Pure action games have become hits in recent years, and there are more and more fans of action games, so I really want to bring Ninja Gaiden 4 to them. Ryu Hayabusa is really important to Team Ninja, and I think this collection will remind the world of his status as the world’s top ninja.

Q: By the way, there are fans who want Ryu to appear in a certain Smash Bros. Game.
A: I’m waiting for an invitation. [laughs]

[Keyser_Soze]

Was already an easy pass when it was the sigma versions.

[Greatoneshere]

On 3/27/2021 at 6:41 PM, heydude93 said:

Heads up to anyone looking forward to this: 

- Apparently these are ports of the Vita editions, so don't get your hopes up for PS3-level visuals
- If Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 is ported from Vita it won't have the gore option according to a tweet from Team Ninja
- There might be some tweaks to difficulty settings (less challenging)
- Team Ninja says the source code for NGB and NG2 was lost, so those versions will only ever be on Xbox

 

So if you have an xbox you might want to consider skipping this release until more deets roll out

 

 

Apparently they've said it's not the Vita version, but the PS3 versions and that "hero" mode from the Vita version was being added but that the original difficulties remain intact. 

[XxEvil AshxX]

I remember beating Ninja Gaiden (not Black) on my OG Xbox back in the day was like my crowning achievement in video gaming. That probably remains to this day cuz I'm old and tired and I don't like hard games anymore 

 

I still own NG Black and play it on Ninja Dog mode. I'll wear the pink ribbon, I don't give a fuck.