Movies Star Wars: Rogue Squadron, a post-ST movie directed by Patty Jenkins

[CitizenVectron]

Fuck yes.

 

 

[Greatoneshere]

I thought she always had a trilogy in mind with Wonder Woman? Is she going to do this first then go back to that? Also, Rogue Squadron was always more relevant and fun in the OT era for me (or immediately post-OT) so Rogue Squadron in a post-ST? More meh to me, but I'm still interested becuase of Patty Jenkins.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

6 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

I thought she always had a trilogy in mind with Wonder Woman? Is she going to do this first then go back to that? Also, Rogue Squadron was always more relevant and fun in the OT era for me (or immediately post-OT) so Rogue Squadron in a post-ST? More meh to me, but I'm still interested becuase of Patty Jenkins.

 

I'm pretty sure that it's gonna be OT or post-OT.

 

Disney seems to be avoiding the ST era like the plague.

Edit: nevermind, I just read that it's set "in the future beyond The Rise of Skywalker" - I gotta admit that's something I didn't think Disney would do yet!

[CitizenVectron]

1 minute ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

I'm pretty sure that it's gonna be OT or post-OT.

 

Disney seems to be avoiding the ST era like the plague.

 

I'll need to find the tweet, but Disney seemed to confirm it was moving the future forward, post-ST.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Just now, CitizenVectron said:

 

I'll need to find the tweet, but Disney seemed to confirm it was moving the future forward, post-ST.

 

Yeah - I just saw the story as well.

 

I'm GENUINELY surprised by that!

[CitizenVectron]

 

There's the quote!

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Just now, CitizenVectron said:

 

There's the quote!

 

 

And the X-Wing is a T-70 rather than a T-65.

 

It's a pity we never got to see the T-85 in the films:

 

[CitizenVectron]

42 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

And the X-Wing is a T-70 rather than a T-65.

 

It's a pity we never got to see the T-85 in the films:

 

 

Imo both the 70 and 85 are kind of ugly.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Just now, CitizenVectron said:

 

Imo both the 70 and 85 are kind of ugly.

 

Oh, I agree!

 

I can't stand the split-engine nacelles of the T-70/T-85.

[TwinIon]

I'm more excited by the idea of a single film than I am of a trilogy at this point. 

[EternallDarkness]

fingers crossed it turns out great

[legend]

Would have preferred it in post OT. I want to pretend the ST never happened.

[Jason]

18 minutes ago, legend said:

Would have preferred it in post OT. I want to pretend the ST never happened.

 

Not only is it post ST, watch them somehow bring Jar Jar back. 

[TheLeon]

I don’t care too much about when it’s set, especially if it’s going to focus on a new set of characters. I’m excited for some new blood and a fresh perspective. 

[SaysWho?]

6 hours ago, legend said:

Would have preferred it in post OT. I want to pretend the ST never happened.

 

The PT and ST happened. And two of the ST were glorious.

 

Strap yourself in!

[CitizenVectron]

6 hours ago, TheLeon said:

I don’t care too much about when it’s set, especially if it’s going to focus on a new set of characters. I’m excited for some new blood and a fresh perspective. 

 

Wedge is going to be in it, count on it!

[69los]

Just saw the separate thread. Still mad they killed Tallie but at least Greg Grunberg won't be in it.

[legend]

5 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

 

The PT and ST happened. And two of the ST were glorious.

 

Strap yourself in!

 

Meh. I think The Last Jedi was the best, but still only okay. The TFA was second most mediocre and TRoS was laughably bad. And the last one being the worst really taints it. Especially since it undoes some of what made TLJ better than the others.

[Greatoneshere]

19 minutes ago, legend said:

 

Meh. I think The Last Jedi was the best, but still only okay. The TFA was second most mediocre and TRoS was laughably bad. And the last one being the worst really taints it. Especially since it undoes some of what made TLJ better than the others.

 

While I like TLJ more than you, I otherwise agree. The ST is pretty bad overall. If nothing else, what J.J. Abrams decided to do by simply going with the same premise as a A New Hope (let's ignore how he destroyed the OT's tone of Star Wars) ruined any potential the ST had on a larger basis. By putting the galaxy into a New Republic/Resistance/Rebels vs. First Order dichotomy like the Rebels vs. Empire, the galaxy's ability to tell other stories is severely reduced into new and interesting ways. In fact, that's the one interesting part of TLJ, in a way. The hated sequence on Canto Bight has one positive quality - it's a genuinely new feel, vibe, and location for Star Wars, explaining the 1%'ers we never usually see and how they operate and live, to a small degree. That was a breath of fresh air since most of Star Wars is "gritty-ish high stakes!!!". That's why people enjoy The Mandalorian in part - we get to see all these different parts of the galaxy, and how normal humans and alien species live, etc. New locations, but with a well paced, slow-ish tone, etc.

 

Imagine if Abrams had simply made a Star Wars movie where the New Republic flourished instead for A Force Awakens, and there was a burgeoning new clan of Jedi knights, and a lot of planets were both advancing while smaller groups and new organizations rose. There were so many ways to create new setups for lots of kinds of stories. The one thing about the prequel trilogy I appreciate is because of the era its set in, it doesn't feel like the OT. It explores the world of Star Wars during a time of unrest, but mostly stability. The devolution of the Republic into the Empire is gradual, happening over three movies. So we get to see the world of Star Wars in a very different light in the PT. Imagine if Abrams had done that for the ST, in yet another new, different light? Then the ST wouldn't be so bound to the OT framework, which makes ST stories mostly boring and repetitious, if nothing else.

 

They could have hired anyone to direct Star Wars (every director loves Star Wars more or less) and they kicked off setting the tone and framework of the ST era with Abrams. 

[johnny]

1 hour ago, legend said:

 

 And the last one being the worst really taints it. Especially since it undoes some of what made TLJ better than the others.

ugh, this. whenever i think about the last jedi i think about how fucking bad rise of skywalker is. they could have just played it safe. instead JJ decided to spit in the face of TLJ and do crazy shit. 

 

i kinda like revenge of the sith and i think it has some good moments despite crappy dialogue. When I watch the prequel series I feel like there is at least some payoff in the last movie. Rise of skywalker just gives you nothing. 

[CayceG]

IDGAF about the sequels anymore. We've talked around them too much already. 

 

I'm fucking hype for a fighter pilot one-shot movie about a legendary fighter squadron. I'm excited to see what the world they inhabit is like, post TROS. I'm excited to see it come from someone who is not only a fan, but someone with that fighter pilot nerd background, AND someone that seems to have made an absolute banger with WW84. 

[SaysWho?]

3 hours ago, legend said:

 

Meh. I think The Last Jedi was the best, but still only okay. The TFA was second most mediocre and TRoS was laughably bad. And the last one being the worst really taints it. Especially since it undoes some of what made TLJ better than the others.

 

For me, all I have to do is watch 4 - 8. 8 is a good enough payoff, showing a different kind of resolution, inspiring a new generation of rebels against corrupt authority. As a trilogy, it's true that the final movie really didn't have a payoff. But 7 and 8 back to back has a huge payoff.

 

3 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

Then the ST wouldn't be so bound to the OT framework, which makes ST stories mostly boring and repetitious, if nothing else.

 

They could have hired anyone to direct Star Wars (every director loves Star Wars more or less) and they kicked off setting the tone and framework of the ST era with Abrams. 

 

I feel if we got Trevorrow's vision, we'd be having a different conversation.

 

We can debate over what quality the movie would have been, but there was certainly a much story that went in directions previous SW films did not, and it actually built off of TLJ. Had we had that, each movie would have built upon what came before. 

 

I kind of miss people being high on SW in 2015.  It's like 1999, everyone was psyched, and then it ended up being years of arguments after TPM instead.  

[Greatoneshere]

39 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

For me, all I have to do is watch 4 - 8. 8 is a good enough payoff, showing a different kind of resolution, inspiring a new generation of rebels against corrupt authority. As a trilogy, it's true that the final movie really didn't have a payoff. But 7 and 8 back to back has a huge payoff.

 

I feel if we got Trevorrow's vision, we'd be having a different conversation.

 

We can debate over what quality the movie would have been, but there was certainly a much story that went in directions previous SW films did not, and it actually built off of TLJ. Had we had that, each movie would have built upon what came before. 

 

I kind of miss people being high on SW in 2015.  It's like 1999, everyone was psyched, and then it ended up being years of arguments after TPM instead.  

It's true too. I've always enjoyed TFA, but I don't think it helps Star Wars much, and that bothers me a lot more than the superficial joys of a banter-y, moving a mile a minute J.J. Abrams thrill ride. The way he does it just isn't Star Wars, either the OT or PT, but not in a good way. It became very MCU-ified. The tone was lost. I left TFA in theaters liking the film, but hating its attachment to Star Wars.

 

The film has become worse with time as a film, but I still loathe it for ruining the opportunities it had in 2015 to do something new with Star Wars (as I mentioned in the previous post, he boxed all of Star Wars back into an OT box, which is why few care about the ST, it's the same old rather than very different, whereas people still want stories in the PT or earlier, because that era and the OT seem much more interesting than the ST era).

[Pikachu]

What could have been if Rian Johnson got to do the whole trilogy from the beginning . . .

[TheLeon]

4 hours ago, johnny said:

ugh, this. whenever i think about the last jedi i think about how fucking bad rise of skywalker is. they could have just played it safe. instead JJ decided to spit in the face of TLJ and do crazy shit. 

I don’t usually hate-watch things, but I’ve watched Rise of Skywalker multiple times since it hit Disney+. It’s fascinating in all the different ways it fucks up. Rian Johnson handed JJ the ball, and he didn’t just drop it, he drop-kicked into the sun.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Fuck yeah I'm stoked for some Rogue Squadron action.  My absolute favorite moment in TFA is Poe leading the defense of Maz's cantina, and we get it from Finn's p.o.v. "That's one hell of a pilot!"

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

Imagine if Abrams had simply made a Star Wars movie where the New Republic flourished instead for A Force Awakens, and there was a burgeoning new clan of Jedi knights, and a lot of planets were both advancing while smaller groups and new organizations rose. There were so many ways to create new setups for lots of kinds of stories. The one thing about the prequel trilogy I appreciate is because of the era its set in, it doesn't feel like the OT. It explores the world of Star Wars during a time of unrest, but mostly stability. The devolution of the Republic into the Empire is gradual, happening over three movies. So we get to see the world of Star Wars in a very different light in the PT. Imagine if Abrams had done that for the ST, in yet another new, different light? Then the ST wouldn't be so bound to the OT framework, which makes ST stories mostly boring and repetitious, if nothing else.

 

They could have hired anyone to direct Star Wars (every director loves Star Wars more or less) and they kicked off setting the tone and framework of the ST era with Abrams. 

 

Boy do I wish the movies would have been more like the Jedi Knight games as you proposed, and I absolutely agree that TFA severely limited the direction of this trilogy.  WE could have gotten a mirror of the Original Trilogy actually.  In which the OT showcased an all-empowered evil Empire trying to stomp out the secret and growing good Rebellion, the ST could have showcased a newly empowered Republic (which we never got to see at all) fighting off a growing, hit-and-run terrorist faction of fascists - basically show us the fancier movie version of the Empire remnants that The Mandalorian is showing us right now.  

[johnny]

We are for sure getting ghost Qui-Gon Jinn which is pretty cool imo 

[Greatoneshere]

16 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

Fuck yeah I'm stoked for some Rogue Squadron action.  My absolute favorite moment in TFA is Poe leading the defense of Maz's cantina, and we get it from Finn's p.o.v. "That's one hell of a pilot!"

 

 

 

 

Boy do I wish the movies would have been more like the Jedi Knight games as you proposed, and I absolutely agree that TFA severely limited the direction of this trilogy.  WE could have gotten a mirror of the Original Trilogy actually.  In which the OT showcased an all-empowered evil Empire trying to stomp out the secret and growing good Rebellion, the ST could have showcased a newly empowered Republic (which we never got to see at all) fighting off a growing, hit-and-run terrorist faction of fascists - basically show us the fancier movie version of the Empire remnants that The Mandalorian is showing us right now.  

 

Exactly. Jedi Knight games, things like that. The Republic is in control, fighting off the Empire like right wing domestic terrorists. There was so much opportunity to create a new era, a new world/setting for Star Wars like the PT and OT did to differentiate from each other but even with a 30 year in-movie time gap Abrams does nothing but repeat A New Hope's stakes, and it boxes in the entire ST era from all of those other possibilities, at least on a bigger scale (smaller stories like The Mandalorian's could still work, but they had such a canvas to use that they didn't and now can't). 

[cusideabelincoln]

2 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Exactly. Jedi Knight games, things like that. The Republic is in control, fighting off the Empire like right wing domestic terrorists. There was so much opportunity to create a new era, a new world/setting for Star Wars like the PT and OT did to differentiate from each other but even with a 30 year in-movie time gap Abrams does nothing but repeat A New Hope's stakes, and it boxes in the entire ST era from all of those other possibilities, at least on a bigger scale (smaller stories like The Mandalorian's could still work, but they had such a canvas to use that they didn't and now can't). 

 

I do have to wonder if, when looking at the totality of similarities from the entire ST->OT, if Disney had any kind of strong input and forced their way.  While differing in execution, you can easily see that ANH:TFA::ESB:TLJ. 

 

TLJ/ESB riff-offs:

Chase sequence

Up-and-coming prodigy learns from a quirky master

Bad person wants good person to join them in ruling the galaxy

White stuff on a barren planet, good guys in a bunker.

 

And even though ROS tried to do everything and the kitchen sink, they managed to resemble ROTJ loosely:

 

Both manage to fit a desert planet into the first act

Both visit the Endor system

Both end in a fight with Palpatine, with a giant space battle overhead.

 

 

As much as Lucas got shit for his clip where he said the prequels "rhyme" the OT, he didn't copy and paste the OT like the sequels blatantly did.

[Greatoneshere]

7 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

 

I do have to wonder if, when looking at the totality of similarities from the entire ST->OT, if Disney had any kind of strong input and forced their way.  While differing in execution, you can easily see that ANH:TFA::ESB:TLJ. 

 

As much as Lucas got shit for his clip where he said the prequels "rhyme" the OT, he didn't copy and paste the OT like the sequels blatantly did.

 

It certainly could have been Disney's fault, but given Abram's track record of milking nostalgia without substance (see: Super 8, Star Trek Into Darkness) and himself admitting that he's terrible at endings, he's primarily to blame. He co-wrote, directed, and produced both The Force Awakens and The Rise of Skywalker. He may be owned by the Mouse, but that is an incredible amount of creative input into the project. Ergo: it's his fault primarily, I think.

 

With Rian Johnson and TLJ, there's no question he was inspired to make a movie as good and as "daring" as ESB was for blockbuster entertainment. I believe he's admitted as much. I don't think he was trying to copy the format in the same was as Abrams was blatantly ripping shit off though. TLJ shows you "copying" done right, and not just milking shit for nostalgia, compared to TFA and TROS. TLJ isn't a perfect movie, but at least it's a real movie.

 

As an aside, I must say, the banter-y and quippy nature of dialogue in MCU and Abrams films (see: both his Star Wars and Star Trek movies) has really grown quite tiresome. It was funny and entertaining in Pirates of the Caribbean and such, but now I feel like a lot of films and TV use "banter" as a means for character growth or inter-character relationship growth, and it all means nothing. Bantering with each other can be fun, funny, flirtatious, and/or attractive and sexy, but it's not character development. Characters in a lot of these movies now just banter back and forth endlessly and it's just tiring, honestly. They do it almost for entire movies or episodes in a show and it's like: "we didn't learn anything". I get that people like jokes and fun but there needs to be substance underneath and really digging into characters has gotten lost in these MCU and MCU-type films in terms of dialogue. Yes, even the ones people like. The scene might even be serious, but it's so often got a joke or something ready to go. Am the only one sort of tired of that?  

[cusideabelincoln]

2 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

It certainly could have been Disney's fault, but given Abram's track record of milking nostalgia without substance (see: Super 8, Star Trek Into Darkness) and himself admitting that he's terrible at endings, he's primarily to blame. He co-wrote, directed, and produced both The Force Awakens and The Rise of Skywalker. He may be owned by the Mouse, but that is an incredible amount of creative input into the project. Ergo: it's his fault primarily, I think.

 

With Rian Johnson and TLJ, there's no question he was inspired to make a movie as good and as "daring" as ESB was for blockbuster entertainment. I believe he's admitted as much. I don't think he was trying to copy the format in the same was as Abrams was blatantly ripping shit off though. TLJ shows you "copying" done right, and not just milking shit for nostalgia, compared to TFA and TROS. TLJ isn't a perfect movie, but at least it's a real movie.

 

Yeah, I can agree ROS and TFA tried to copy but had not idea how to tie its story together, while TLJ adds depth and new ideas onto the elements it tried to copy.  I think the most egregious oversight Abrams had in writing ROS as a follow-up to TLJ is his neglect to acknowledge the questions Johnson raised about the nature of the Force, the Sith, and the Jedi.  

[Greatoneshere]

18 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

 

Yeah, I can agree ROS and TFA tried to copy but had not idea how to tie its story together, while TLJ adds depth and new ideas onto the elements it tried to copy.  I think the most egregious oversight Abrams had in writing ROS as a follow-up to TLJ is his neglect to acknowledge the questions Johnson raised about the nature of the Force, the Sith, and the Jedi.  

 

TROS is absolutely a film that is butthurt about what TLJ did to Abrams' TFA mystery box. It's sad, it's petty, and the puerility of TROS shows just how wrong Abrams was to believe Rian Johnson didn't do everything he could to upend things to 1) do something fucking interesting for TLJ; 2) give Abrams the ability to make an interesting film himself. 

 

Think about the possibilities: Kylo Ren is in charge of the First Order, and Rey is pulled between multiple different feelings. Losing Carrie Fisher made things hard regardless, and Trevorrow's version hinted at some of this (though I trust him even less than Abrams), but there were a lot of possibilities there. A lot. A lot of peoples' theories and speculations were better than what happened. TLJ shocked me with Snoke's death. Legit shocked. By Kylo Ren no less. Here was this new Emperor-esque bullshit mystery box Abrams made to repeat Return of the Jedi eventually and Rian Johnson said fuck that and just killed him off before having the main protagonist and antagonist fight together as one in a badass Jedi battle? Yeah, sign me up for that shit.

 

TLJ has a scene where the most powerful Force user (currently) in the galaxy teleports his entire person as a hologram and uses a person's hatred and ego against them without even needing to physically fight him. I mean, that's the very nature of the light side of the force, to win through defense and reflection. This is a movie that puts a hothead pilot in his place, by effectively telling him to learn to trust the group rather than himself. This is a movie that tells another idiot who so badly wants to die a hero that it's better to die together than be pointless heroes alone, whether one is successful or not, to again: trust the group. It's a beautiful movie, thematically. It's often too on the nose, it is not a perfect film, but man, at least it was different.

 

And then Abrams brought back Palpatine himself in the most asinine of ways. No lessons were learned. It's just sad. It's a good thing the prequels happened because if we went from Return of the Jedi to that, it would have stung a lot more. But, thankfully, Lucas adjusted my expectations accordingly, very harshly, with the PT. So for me, my love of Star Wars died back in 2002, when I realized Attack of the Clones was a shit movie with a few good parts. It's somewhere out there, with that Brooklyn-esque 1950's diner amongst the galaxy far away's technologically advanced city planet of Coruscant.

 

Because that makes sense.

[SaysWho?]

30 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

It certainly could have been Disney's fault, but given Abram's track record of milking nostalgia without substance (see: Super 8, Star Trek Into Darkness) and himself admitting that he's terrible at endings, he's primarily to blame. He co-wrote, directed, and produced both The Force Awakens and The Rise of Skywalker. He may be owned by the Mouse, but that is an incredible amount of creative input into the project. Ergo: it's his fault primarily, I think.

 

With Rian Johnson and TLJ, there's no question he was inspired to make a movie as good and as "daring" as ESB was for blockbuster entertainment. I believe he's admitted as much. I don't think he was trying to copy the format in the same was as Abrams was blatantly ripping shit off though. TLJ shows you "copying" done right, and not just milking shit for nostalgia, compared to TFA and TROS. TLJ isn't a perfect movie, but at least it's a real movie.

 

As an aside, I must say, the banter-y and quippy nature of dialogue in MCU and Abrams films (see: both his Star Wars and Star Trek movies) has really grown quite tiresome. It was funny and entertaining in Pirates of the Caribbean and such, but now I feel like a lot of films and TV use "banter" as a means for character growth or inter-character relationship growth, and it all means nothing. Bantering with each other can be fun, funny, flirtatious, and/or attractive and sexy, but it's not character development. Characters in a lot of these movies now just banter back and forth endlessly and it's just tiring, honestly. They do it almost for entire movies or episodes in a show and it's like: "we didn't learn anything". I get that people like jokes and fun but there needs to be substance underneath and really digging into characters has gotten lost in these MCU and MCU-type films in terms of dialogue. Yes, even the ones people like. The scene might even be serious, but it's so often got a joke or something ready to go. Am the only one sort of tired of that?  

 

So first, I was legit shocked at Snoke's death as well. Awesome shit.

 

Second, good Pirates comparison. At the time when that came out, it was one of a kind as far as I know in the dialogue department. Not many big budget movies had dialogue like that, and it was quick and witty. I don't mind the dialogue, and in fact, one thing I noticed after TFA released was how many lines I quoted for fun and with pleasure. It was one of the things I most remember Ebert critiquing Attack of the Clones on -- the actors didn't seem excited to be the characters, the dialogue was all mostly exposition to talk about what happened or is happening, there are no lines you can quote for pleasure. But TFA arrives and I'm going, "That's not how the Force works!" and "Because it's the right thing to do," "....you need a pilot." "I need a pilot."

 

I don't think that's the problem with TROS, at least not the main one. It's more that the dialogue isn't that good. If you're going to try for that kind of dialogue, it needs to be funny. I think that scene with Leia where she goes, "Try to be positive!" is a good example. The scene didn't really add anything to anything, it felt a bit awkward hearing Leia's lines that were not intended for that scene, and it wasn't a clever back and forth.

[CayceG]

I still think back to just how GOOD the scenes in The Force Awaken were where it introduces us to Rey. It shows her normal life on Jakku, her scavenging and returning to her hut, and up to when she meets BB-8... The cinematics, the music, the pacing--they were perfect. 

 

And why didn't it suffer like the rest of the movie?

 

In the entire 5 minutes, there is hardly ANY dialogue. 

 

 

Very next scene? Poe's tortured by Kylo Ren and he's quipping his way through it. 

 

 

 

I promised myself I wouldn't get back on my bullshit, but here I am again! JJ Abrams is a fucking trash filmmaker. 

[Jason]

1 hour ago, CayceG said:

JJ Abrams is a fucking trash filmmaker.