Movies Star Wars: Rogue Squadron, a post-ST movie directed by Patty Jenkins

[Greatoneshere]

3 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

 

So first, I was legit shocked at Snoke's death as well. Awesome shit.

 

Second, good Pirates comparison. At the time when that came out, it was one of a kind as far as I know in the dialogue department. Not many big budget movies had dialogue like that, and it was quick and witty. I don't mind the dialogue, and in fact, one thing I noticed after TFA released was how many lines I quoted for fun and with pleasure. It was one of the things I most remember Ebert critiquing Attack of the Clones on -- the actors didn't seem excited to be the characters, the dialogue was all mostly exposition to talk about what happened or is happening, there are no lines you can quote for pleasure. But TFA arrives and I'm going, "That's not how the Force works!" and "Because it's the right thing to do," "....you need a pilot." "I need a pilot."

 

I don't think that's the problem with TROS, at least not the main one. It's more that the dialogue isn't that good. If you're going to try for that kind of dialogue, it needs to be funny. I think that scene with Leia where she goes, "Try to be positive!" is a good example. The scene didn't really add anything to anything, it felt a bit awkward hearing Leia's lines that were not intended for that scene, and it wasn't a clever back and forth.

 

 

You're more lenient than me. I think that's why people enjoy quippy dialogue, because there's energy to it, and movement, and speed. It's exciting. But it's like: "this is a serious situation. Why aren't we dealing with the weighty elements of this other than in 'haha, this is serious, let's crack jokes as a coping mechanism'" constantly. TFA is way better about this than TROS (in the same way Star Trek '09 is way better about this than Star Trek Into Darkness) so my comment was meant more in general than aimed at Star Wars in particular. 

 

And to be clear, while I am hating on TFA because it set a tone and framework that nuked the franchise, like Star Trek '09, if you don't think about it too hard it's a very fun and energetic film with some deeply weird tonal whiplash and a few dumb scenes that weren't need (Rathtars or whatever), but yeah, Snoke getting ganked - awesome.  

 

 

2 hours ago, CayceG said:

I still think back to just how GOOD the scenes in The Force Awaken were where it introduces us to Rey. It shows her normal life on Jakku, her scavenging and returning to her hut, and up to when she meets BB-8... The cinematics, the music, the pacing--they were perfect. 

 

And why didn't it suffer like the rest of the movie?

 

In the entire 5 minutes, there is hardly ANY dialogue. 

 

Very next scene? Poe's tortured by Kylo Ren and he's quipping his way through it. 

 

I promised myself I wouldn't get back on my bullshit, but here I am again! JJ Abrams is a fucking trash filmmaker. 

 

Agreed on every point. TFA starts so good, but it goes from Star Wars OT pacing to MCU film pacing so quickly the film gives up. Films like these need dialogue every 5 seconds and I just feel assaulted. Like, let scenes breathe for Christ sake. Let's live in the weight of the scene/moment. But no, we have to constantly be quipping and talking and moving and exposition and plot point. Like, good grief. I'm with you, try to contain the rage.  

 

Try to remember just how slow and calm the scene is when Leia talks about remembering her mother as a baby in Return of the Jedi. The OT is littered with these quiet character moments despite it being an action adventure movie, just like TFA and TROS. But tone, some directors just don't get tone. You have to languish in the setting, the moment, the scene, the pain, the grief, the whatever it is. But with these movies it's go-go-go and I just get bored with all the sound and fury signifying nothing.

[Mercury33]

Jesus you guys are going on about this AGAIN?

[skillzdadirecta]

[johnny]

5 hours ago, Mercury33 said:

Jesus you guys are going on about this AGAIN?

Never stopped 

[CitizenVectron]

The first 20-30 minutes of TFA were a great introduction to the new state of the universe, and then everything else was just retreaded fan service.

[Kal-El814]

I hope this movie is actually Rouge Squadron for pure schadenfreude. 

[Jason]

6 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

Rouge

 

[SaysWho?]

On 12/12/2020 at 5:39 PM, Mercury33 said:

Jesus you guys are going on about this AGAIN?

 

Hey don't freak, it's not that argument!

 

  

On 12/11/2020 at 10:46 PM, Greatoneshere said:

Try to remember just how slow and calm the scene is when Leia talks about remembering her mother as a baby in Return of the Jedi. The OT is littered with these quiet character moments despite it being an action adventure movie, just like TFA and TROS. But tone, some directors just don't get tone. You have to languish in the setting, the moment, the scene, the pain, the grief, the whatever it is. But with these movies it's go-go-go and I just get bored with all the sound and fury signifying nothing.

 

Probably why those who love TLJ compare it favorably to the OT since it's not a "slow" movie but it doesn't rush things. Luke has some funny lines... REALLY funny, actually.

 

 

But there's a sense of weight to the training. Leia meeting Luke again for the first time since Episode 6 was given its moment. Yoda returning was given time to breathe and felt magical. You really delve into Finn's feelings on the conflict, having just wanted to save Rey in 7 and escape in 8 and seeing the nuts and bolts of who runs the galaxy, who profits from the war, and what it means to be a rebel. 

 

I'm honestly amazed how it handled the arcs of Luke, Finn, Poe, Kylo Ren, and Rey. That's a lot of damn moving parts.

 

And I can talk endlessly about how much I love the cinematography. FUCK, when Star Wars is good, it's fucking good.

[Alpha1Cowboy]

Rian Johnson didn't do ther series any favors.  He turned General Hux into pure comedy relief...he ruined the character so bad they had to give him a comedy sendoff.  That's why Thrawn is so admired...he wasn't scared of Vader or other force users..one of the things I liked about many of the novels is that the military leadership of the Empire/Former Empire and their arcs was really interesting.    That's why Moff Gideon is getting a lot of positive buzz thus far in the Mandalorean.....personally..I don't think Abrahms or Johnson understood Star Wars at the level they needed to in order to craft their stories or  not nearly as much as Dave Filoni.

 

The good thing is that there is a lot of room for expanded stories post Episode 9 that 

 

[SaysWho?]

Just now, Alpha1Cowboy said:

Rian Johnson didn't do ther series any favors.  He turned General Hux into pure comedy relief...he ruined the character so bad they had to give him a comedy sendoff.  That's why Thrawn is so admired...he wasn't scared of Vader or other force users..one of the things I liked about many of the novels is that the military leadership of the Empire/Former Empire and their arcs was really interesting.    That's why Moff Gideon is getting a lot of positive buzz thus far in the Mandalorean.....personally..I don't think Abrahms or Johnson understood Star Wars at the level they needed to in order to craft their stories or  not nearly as much as Dave Filoni.

 

Hux being comedy relief was great. There wasn't anything particularly notable about him in TFA.

 

Let's face it: people didn't think Lucas, after the PT, understood Star Wars. Star Wars fans are bad. I wish I could make a SW film just to piss them off tbqh.

[Alpha1Cowboy]

7 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Hux being comedy relief was great. There wasn't anything particularly notable about him in TFA.

 

Let's face it: people didn't think Lucas, after the PT, understood Star Wars. Star Wars fans are bad. I wish I could make a SW film just to piss them off tbqh.

 

 

He was merely bad there...a little over the top acting and miscast..maybe needed an older actor, but the idea was to build him into something like a Thrawn or Gideon even....or it should have been.  That's what fans were looking for.  Hell..Moff Tarkin was badass too....

 

No one was asking for Space Colonel Klink

 

*of course..I play Star Wars Legions and Armada and Rebel Assault and Xwing tabletop games ...so ymmv

 

[SaysWho?]

4 minutes ago, Alpha1Cowboy said:

 

 

He was merely bad there...a little over the top acting and miscast..maybe needed an older actor, but the idea was to build him into something like a Thrawn or Gideon even....or it should have been.  That's what fans were looking for.  Hell..Moff Tarkin was badass too....

 

No one was asking for Space Colonel Klink

 

 

Who cares what fans "want?"

 

Nobody cared in the OT; a story was told and you either liked it or you didn't. I'm a fan; I didn't give a shit. I didn't "ask" for anything; I enjoyed a great movie without asking for Tarkin Part 2.

[CitizenVectron]

1 hour ago, Alpha1Cowboy said:

 

 

He was merely bad there...a little over the top acting and miscast..maybe needed an older actor, but the idea was to build him into something like a Thrawn or Gideon even....or it should have been.  That's what fans were looking for.  Hell..Moff Tarkin was badass too....

 

No one was asking for Space Colonel Klink

 

*of course..I play Star Wars Legions and Armada and Rebel Assault and Xwing tabletop games ...so ymmv

 

 

Let's be real—most of the Imperial officers in the OT were jokes as well, and there was humour (albeit dryer) when they died.

[Alpha1Cowboy]

54 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Let's be real—most of the Imperial officers in the OT were jokes as well, and there was humour (albeit dryer) when they died.

There's a big difference.  Tarkin was not afraid of Vader and Vader respected Tarkin.  Now...the focus shifted in Episode 5 and 6...but the writing (before Star Wars Legends was a thing) did not make a jokes out of Imperial Officers....Thrawn, Palleon,Daala.....were written very well and gave form to a Post Episode 6 Imperial remnant.....Thrawn so much so that they brought him into canon...and also seem to have course corrected with the Mandalorian and Moff Gideon.   

 

People want competent villains. It makes for a much better story and adds realism. Hux/Ren was obviously  Tarkin/Vader...and the first movie gave us that although a much paler imitation..Rian Johnson just destroyed that dynamic by immediately playing Hux for straight laughs when more could have been done to expand the idea of this larger scale war going on.   The clone wars and Mandalorian really have done a good job at that piece from a military perspective where the larger films have failed...well...Rogue One did alright

[Mercury33]

2 hours ago, Alpha1Cowboy said:

Rian Johnson didn't do ther series any favors.  He turned General Hux into pure comedy relief...he ruined the character so bad they had to give him a comedy sendoff.  That's why Thrawn is so admired...he wasn't scared of Vader or other force users..one of the things I liked about many of the novels is that the military leadership of the Empire/Former Empire and their arcs was really interesting.    That's why Moff Gideon is getting a lot of positive buzz thus far in the Mandalorean.....personally..I don't think Abrahms or Johnson understood Star Wars at the level they needed to in order to craft their stories or  not nearly as much as Dave Filoni.

 

The good thing is that there is a lot of room for expanded stories post Episode 9 that 

 

*insert Luke everything you said is wrong gif*

[CitizenVectron]

25 minutes ago, Alpha1Cowboy said:

There's a big difference.  Tarkin was not afraid of Vader and Vader respected Tarkin.  Now...the focus shifted in Episode 5 and 6...but the writing (before Star Wars Legends was a thing) did not make a jokes out of Imperial Officers....Thrawn, Palleon,Daala.....were written very well and gave form to a Post Episode 6 Imperial remnant.....Thrawn so much so that they brought him into canon...and also seem to have course corrected with the Mandalorian and Moff Gideon.   

 

People want competent villains. It makes for a much better story and adds realism. Hux/Ren was obviously  Tarkin/Vader...and the first movie gave us that although a much paler imitation..Rian Johnson just destroyed that dynamic by immediately playing Hux for straight laughs when more could have been done to expand the idea of this larger scale war going on.   The clone wars and Mandalorian really have done a good job at that piece from a military perspective where the larger films have failed...well...Rogue One did alright

 

Why does Hux have to be Tarkin? Why does there need to be an equivalent for Tarkin? Ben is the villain (or was, until Abrams changed it for IX), and was quite competent (in that he was impulsive and vengeful, but not disciplined). The villains don't need to match up to the OT (or PT).

[CayceG]

I do agree that Hux being made into comically bumbling in his EEE-ville-ness was a misstep. It took the venom out of him and lightened that weight too much. 

[SaysWho?]

26 minutes ago, Alpha1Cowboy said:

There's a big difference.  Tarkin was not afraid of Vader and Vader respected Tarkin.  Now...the focus shifted in Episode 5 and 6...but the writing (before Star Wars Legends was a thing) did not make a jokes out of Imperial Officers....Thrawn, Palleon,Daala.....were written very well and gave form to a Post Episode 6 Imperial remnant.....Thrawn so much so that they brought him into canon...and also seem to have course corrected with the Mandalorian and Moff Gideon.   

 

People want competent villains. It makes for a much better story and adds realism. Hux/Ren was obviously  Tarkin/Vader...and the first movie gave us that although a much paler imitation..Rian Johnson just destroyed that dynamic by immediately playing Hux for straight laughs when more could have been done to expand the idea of this larger scale war going on.   The clone wars and Mandalorian really have done a good job at that piece from a military perspective where the larger films have failed...well...Rogue One did alright

 

It wasn't obviously Tarkin/Vader lol. Their relationship was completely different and the characters were completely different. Kylo and Hux didn't like each other from the start.

 

And nobody was afraid of Vader because the whole "chosen one" thing wasn't a thing. Him being anyone's father wasn't a thing. It was just a self-contained movie where Tarkin was more of a baddie who was in control of the Death Star.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

BACK TO ROGUE SQUADRON, FOR TARKIN'S SAKE!

 

Star Wars: Rogue Squadron movie won't be based on the games but is influenced by them, director says | PC Gamer

WWW.PCGAMER.COM

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"Rogue Squadron, form up."

 

[CayceG]

Just now, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

BACK TO ROGUE SQUADRON, FOR TARKIN'S SAKE!

 

Star Wars: Rogue Squadron movie won't be based on the games but is influenced by them, director says | PC Gamer

WWW.PCGAMER.COM

---

"Rogue Squadron, form up."

 

 

So this is good. 

 

As Mandalorian has shown, being influenced by other parts of the back-catalog can make for some wonderful content, while retreading the ground of previous entries in canon maybe isn't the best (as the prior discussion has covered).

 

 

[Alpha1Cowboy]

3 minutes ago, CayceG said:

 

So this is good. 

 

As Mandalorian has shown, being influenced by other parts of the back-catalog can make for some wonderful content, while retreading the ground of previous entries in canon maybe isn't the best (as the prior discussion has covered).

 

 

 

 

I do wonder where the Thrawn thing is headed. I mean..it seems that this could be a link to the Chiss Ascendancy in the Outer Rims.....I did like in the novels the idea that the Imperial Remnant wasn't his caricature that the 1st Order was...that they carved out their own space and seemed to have support from some worlds who did not want to be part of the Galactic Alliance.....it really started exploring the grey areas and failures of the Old Republic and such.  

 

 

 

 

[CitizenVectron]

16 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

It wasn't obviously Tarkin/Vader lol. Their relationship was completely different and the characters were completely different. Kylo and Hux didn't like each other from the start.

 

And nobody was afraid of Vader because the whole "chosen one" thing wasn't a thing. Him being anyone's father wasn't a thing. It was just a self-contained movie where Tarkin was more of a baddie who was in control of the Death Star.

 

Tarkin in ANH was more like a Soviet sub captain (military) and Vader was the party officer on board. The party officer can ruin the reputation of the captain and override them in some areas (and possibly get them kicked out/killed after a while), but is not in charge. Obviously ESB and ROTJ retroactively changed who Vader was in the overall hierarchy. 

[Alpha1Cowboy]

31 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Tarkin in ANH was more like a Soviet sub captain (military) and Vader was the party officer on board. The party officer can ruin the reputation of the captain and override them in some areas (and possibly get them kicked out/killed after a while), but is not in charge. Obviously ESB and ROTJ retroactively changed who Vader was in the overall hierarchy. 

 

 

Considering that ultimately it was Snoke/Palpatine in Charge....it made sense that he kept the same type of hierarchy. Indeed he was treating both Ren/Hux with the same level of authority. It was only in Episode 9 that all of a sudden we had these other higher ranking military figures show up.....yeah...they really made a hash of that aspect...but I'm hopeful that Moff Gideon and maybe Thrawn fix it depending on what they do with the characters.   

 

Tarkin was the one in charge though..Vader was just an enforcer that had little to do militarily. 

 

"Governor Tarkin, I should have expected to find you holding Vader's leash. I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board." -Princess Leia --A New Hope

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Patty Jenkins on 'Star Wars' Movie 'Rogue Squadron' & Who Is Writing the Script

COLLIDER.COM

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Director Patty Jenkins discusses her upcoming Star Wars movie Rogue Squadron and what she's accomplished on the story ahead of filming.

 

Quote

"We're very far into the — we're finishing the treatment basically, which is pretty big. So it ends up being like where you're fairly close to a well-along screenplay by the time I'm done with the treatment in my process. So yeah, we've been working on it for awhile. It's going great. I'm super excited about it. I'm super excited about the story."

 

[johnny]

Hux was good in TLJ. Hell he was even good in 9 for the time he was there. JJ should have leaned harder into the spy angle undermining Kylo Ren but instead he gets capped by some old white guy because we have emperor palpatine nonsense taking up so much time.