Sony Returnal - Information Thread, update: Digital Foundry PC Port Review - "It's Good, But Could Be Great"

[Bloodporne]

13 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

THANK YOU.

 

*dog bark*

 

 

[johnny]

My problem so far is managing a lot of enemies at once. like if 10 bat things show up and a few land monsters, I get fucked. I can dodge the first few attacks but then it get overwhelming.

 

Any tips?

[ShreddieMercury]

1 hour ago, Bloodporne said:

Whatever the crux of the issue is, I think it's irritating and beyond old to see a game get hailed with a boatload of 9s and 10s and what not and then be a total mess for a striking amount of players. I mean look at the percentage of players in this thread alone that have run-ending issues, which in this game seems especially bullshit. I'm mainly bitching about it because it already kept me from finally buying Disco Elysium last month, which was also an abject mess and yet reviewed like the second coming of Christ. 

 

I know it has nothing to do with it but I can't help but think back on Prey's initial reviews banging it down to 4/10 and worse for being buggy on release and it wasn't nearly as bad as these two for example. 

 

I agree completely.  Regardless of Returnal's quality or current issues, games criticism is completely broken.  Numerical ratings are absolutely meaningless when they're skewed to the point that a 7/10 means that something is seriously wrong.  As a result, most big releases are exceptionally overrated (recently, see Ghost of Tsushima).  Eurogamer is really the only site that I can rely on for generally fair criticism, and the writing is usually good enough that you can tell if a "recommended" or "essential" game isn't something that you'd like, or alternatively if a game that didn't earn one of their badges is right up your alley.  The vast majority of games likely live in the 5-7/10 range, and that's perfectly okay! 

[SaysWho?]

8 minutes ago, ShreddieMercuryRising said:

As a result, most big releases are exceptionally overrated (recently, see Ghost of Tsushima).  

 

I mean, I know a lot of people who think it was underrated by reviews.  

[JPDunks4]

8 minutes ago, johnny said:

My problem so far is managing a lot of enemies at once. like if 10 bat things show up and a few land monsters, I get fucked. I can dodge the first few attacks but then it get overwhelming.

 

Any tips?

 

Never stop moving.  The bats are easily one of the hardest enemies in the entire game due to the sheer numbers they throw at you, and they are quick to chase you.  

 

The key to success in this game is to keep running when there are tons of enemies round, and dash all the time since it gives you invincibility for those split seconds.

 

Weapon type is also very important.  If you have something that you need to be focused on the enemy for awhile to do much damage, the numbers and speed of the bats will be tough.  Having a weapon that you can turn, fire off a few rounds, and do big damage but not have to stay in place so long that you'll get hit, is very helpful, especially early on.

[ShreddieMercury]

2 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

I mean, I know a lot of people who think it was underrated by reviews.  

 

I really liked it!  But it's definitely a highly derivative 6/10 game with some nice breezy flower tech.

[skillzdadirecta]

19 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

 

*dog bark*

 

 

[Bloodporne]

2 minutes ago, ShreddieMercuryRising said:

 

I agree completely.  Regardless of Returnal's quality or current issues, games criticism is completely broken.  Numerical ratings are absolutely meaningless when they're skewed to the point that a 7/10 means that something is seriously wrong.  As a result, most big releases are exceptionally overrated (recently, see Ghost of Tsushima).  Eurogamer is really the only site that I can rely on for generally fair criticism, and the writing is usually good enough that you can tell if a "recommended" or "essential" game isn't something that you'd like, or alternatively if a game that didn't earn one of their badges is right up your alley.  The vast majority of games likely live in the 5-7/10 range, and that's perfectly okay! 

I honestly only read, and I mean actually read, reviews for games I'm very interested in so I happened to read quite a few of them for Returnal but can't comment on the overall picture of game reviews. What baffled me was to see the actual numbers for some of them. They'd clearly acknowledge what sounded like pretty serious annoyances and problems with balancing, level design and other shit and then you scroll down and...9/10, 10/10 because...blackbuster hype game? I have no idea. When I read a review that says they didn't think the gunplay was particularly great, the level design was repetitive and somewhat bland and that the game frequently frustrated them, I feel like your scale is way the fuck off if it's still a 9 or 10. 

 

But really, as a whole it's not something that influences my purchases at all anymore for a while now. The only one I really enjoy reading regularly and I actually kind of listen to is Eurogamer as well and their review definitely influenced my decision to stay away from Returnal at least for now. Their review in hindsight now reads like players' complaints congealed into review format. 

[skillzdadirecta]

21 minutes ago, ShreddieMercuryRising said:

 

I agree completely.  Regardless of Returnal's quality or current issues, games criticism is completely broken.  Numerical ratings are absolutely meaningless when they're skewed to the point that a 7/10 means that something is seriously wrong.  As a result, most big releases are exceptionally overrated (recently, see Ghost of Tsushima).  Eurogamer is really the only site that I can rely on for generally fair criticism, and the writing is usually good enough that you can tell if a "recommended" or "essential" game isn't something that you'd like, or alternatively if a game that didn't earn one of their badges is right up your alley.  The vast majority of games likely live in the 5-7/10 range, and that's perfectly okay! 

I agree with your sentiment but not with your assessment of Ghosts of Tsushima. That game is amazing all around despite not being original. It deserves its accolades.

[SaysWho?]

8 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

I honestly only read, and I mean actually read, reviews for games I'm very interested in so I happened to read quite a few of them for Returnal but can't comment on the overall picture of game reviews. What baffled me was to see the actual numbers for some of them. They'd clearly acknowledge what sounded like pretty serious annoyances and problems with balancing, level design and other shit and then you scroll down and...9/10, 10/10 because...blackbuster hype game? I have no idea. When I read a review that says they didn't think the gunplay was particularly great, the level design was repetitive and somewhat bland and that the game frequently frustrated them, I feel like your scale is way the fuck off if it's still a 9 or 10. 

 

But really, as a whole it's not something that influences my purchases at all anymore for a while now. The only one I really enjoy reading regularly and I actually kind of listen to is Eurogamer as well and their review definitely influenced my decision to stay away from Returnal at least for now. Their review in hindsight now reads like players' complaints congealed into review format. 

 

A lot of people seriously love this game despite any of those grievances because they consider them minor.

 

The only thing I wouldn't consider minor is constant crashing, but since that hasn't happened to me, I can safely say I really love the fuck out of this game.

[Greatoneshere]

The bugs and glitches I've experienced have had very little impact on my enjoyment of the game. Game is super dope regardless. From my reading if Returnal reviews, people were criticizing parts but its all very minor when you're actually playing it.

 

You'll know if you will like this game or not based on its genre before anything else.

[Bloodporne]

52 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

A lot of people seriously love this game despite any of those grievances because they consider them minor.

 

The only thing I wouldn't consider minor is constant crashing, but since that hasn't happened to me, I can safely say I really love the fuck out of this game.

 

14 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

The bugs and glitches I've experienced have had very little impact on my enjoyment of the game. Game is super dope regardless. From my reading if Returnal reviews, people were criticizing parts but its all very minor when you're actually playing it.

 

You'll know if you will like this game or not based on its genre before anything else.

Yeah that's fair of course, what bothers the shit out of me in a game might be a big shrug for someone else. 

 

 

[Greatoneshere]

10 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

 

Yeah that's fair of course, what bothers the shit out of me in a game might be a big shrug for someone else. 

 

 

 

And to be clear, unlike others I've run into a good bit of bugs, and I do think they should be ironed out for sure. I have a high tolerance I guess though, I played Cyberpunk at release and the game played great but I did run into some bugs there as well yet I loved Cyberpunk, thought it was a great game overall.

[stepee]

Man, I completely disagree with Xbob that the game doesn’t look that great. It’s a pretty phenomenal looking game with everything going on, and not just during combat, all the atmospheric effects and post processing and great lighting. I’m more impressed with Returnal tech wise than I was Resident Evil 8 last night maxed out on pc at 90-120.

 

Sure there’s a handful of pc games that look better all maxed out if you are really high end on pc, but for consoles this is probably the most impressive game right now. It only gets to have that title for like 6 weeks, but still!

 

 

[stepee]

Also completely disagree that there are issues with performance? I hadn’t even heard anyone else notice that. It’s pretty much always locked 60. I think that might be just factually wrong unless digital foundry was really smoking something when they said it’s as locked as a console game gets.

[best3444]

16 minutes ago, stepee said:

Man, I completely disagree with Xbob that the game doesn’t look that great. It’s a pretty phenomenal looking game with everything going on, and not just during combat, all the atmospheric effects and post processing and great lighting. I’m more impressed with Returnal tech wise than I was Resident Evil 8 last night maxed out on pc at 90-120.

 

Sure there’s a handful of pc games that look better all maxed out if you are really high end on pc, but for consoles this is probably the most impressive game right now. It only gets to have that title for like 6 weeks, but still!

 

 

 

I literally was going to ask you what you thought of the visuals. That's awesome you think it's the best looking console game out to this date. Xbob is really negative in almost every post he makes. 

 

15 minutes ago, stepee said:

Also completely disagree that there are issues with performance? I hadn’t even heard anyone else notice that. It’s pretty much always locked 60. I think that might be just factually wrong unless digital foundry was really smoking something when they said it’s as locked as a console game gets.

 

Yea, he also said there were drops in framerate but I was watching digital foundry's breakdown of the game earlier this afternoon and they said it's locked at 60. They also praised the visuals especially the amazing particle effects. 

 

I think I'll listen to your opinion on this matter. 

[TwinIon]

Decided to put in another run last night, had a decent build going, decent weapons, and critically, had a revive or two. Even spent resin on one. Couldn't finish the run, so I put it in rest mode. Woke up this morning to a notification that the game had been updated, so I lost my run. Really hope they add some kind of save in there soon. In the meantime I think I turned off auto installation of updates, so hopefully that will help.

 

Had a very solid run going today. Finally cleared the first boss, but died on the second while it had only a tiny silver of life left. Real bummer.

 

I took some of the advice I was given and have been more liberal with opening malignant stuff, and it's working out rather well. My last run I kept running across items that would fix malfunctions, but even after picking up basically every item, I didn't have any (some were cleared up via various other methods). While I was drowning in ways to fix malfunctions, I couldn't find an extra life or more HP.

 

The more time I've put in the more I've been enjoying it. I don't know what this dev's history of DLC, expansions, or content updates is, but even though I'm no where close to the end, this really feels like a game that could evolve, even if it's just adding more stuff in.

[stepee]

10 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

I literally was going to ask you what you thought of the visuals. That's awesome you think it's the best looking console game out to this date. Xbob is really negative in almost every post he makes. 

 

 

Yea, he also said there were drops in framerate but I was watching digital foundry's breakdown of the game earlier this afternoon and they said it's locked at 60. They also praised the visuals especially the amazing particle effects. 

 

I think I'll listen to your opinion on this matter. 

 

Yeah, this isn’t just an amazing looking console game it’s just an amazing looking game period.

 

It’s funny people thinking it could have been a ps4 game, maybe at one point in development but the finished product would have been like Cyberpunk on last gen bad. Like it would have to be on the base one too and it’s already using algorithms from an internal 1080p to hit 60 on ps5. What are they going to aim for scale from 540p to 1080p at 30fps and of course remove all rt and a bunch of other stuff and probably have loading screens during the teleports. It would be like a Witcher 3 on switch sort of thing, it’s possible, but nobody wants to play that on a tv.

[atom631]

On 4/30/2021 at 10:13 PM, JPDunks4 said:

 

  Hide contents

I did 2 Acts I think so far, and 6 biomes.  Respawned back at the ship after Act 1, and again after Act 2.  Maybe there is still 1 more act on this 3rd run.

 

you’re on a 3rd run already? Is the game super short or something? 
 

I got to boss called 

Spoiler

Phrife ? I think  

and I thought I beat it. Even went into what looked like a death animation, and then I woke up back at the ship.  I’m only like 1 1/2hrs in. Died a few times 

[JPDunks4]

6 minutes ago, atom631 said:

you’re on a 3rd run already? Is the game super short or something? 
 

I got to boss called 

  Reveal hidden contents

Phrife ? I think  

and I thought I beat it. Even went into what looked like a death animation, and then I woke up back at the ship.  I’m only like 1 1/2hrs in. Died a few times 

 

If you beat it I don't think you'd see a death animation.

 

And a successful run is about 3 hours.

[SaysWho?]

42 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

Decided to put in another run last night, had a decent build going, decent weapons, and critically, had a revive or two. Even spent resin on one. Couldn't finish the run, so I put it in rest mode. Woke up this morning to a notification that the game had been updated, so I lost my run. Really hope they add some kind of save in there soon. In the meantime I think I turned off auto installation of updates, so hopefully that will help.

 

Had a very solid run going today. Finally cleared the first boss, but died on the second while it had only a tiny silver of life left. Real bummer.

 

I took some of the advice I was given and have been more liberal with opening malignant stuff, and it's working out rather well. My last run I kept running across items that would fix malfunctions, but even after picking up basically every item, I didn't have any (some were cleared up via various other methods). While I was drowning in ways to fix malfunctions, I couldn't find an extra life or more HP.

 

The more time I've put in the more I've been enjoying it. I don't know what this dev's history of DLC, expansions, or content updates is, but even though I'm no where close to the end, this really feels like a game that could evolve, even if it's just adding more stuff in.

 

Sorry to hear about the update. Yeah, save feature's gonna have to be patched. I'm glad I haven't run into that yet.

 

Some of their games don't have DLC, but they're typically supported. They love their games! Resogun had two different paid $5 DLCs and two free ones, including a ship editor. It added hoouuurrrsss of gameplay and skyrocketed it into one of my favorite games last gen. So I could see them adding something to this as well.

 

1 hour ago, stepee said:

Also completely disagree that there are issues with performance? I hadn’t even heard anyone else notice that. It’s pretty much always locked 60. I think that might be just factually wrong unless digital foundry was really smoking something when they said it’s as locked as a console game gets.

 

I'm pretty sure it's straight-up wrong. A few dips, I guess? Maybe? I'm not even sure they're that noticeable.

 

This game looks and plays great and wouldn't work on last gen tech without being severely compromised. I remember when they ported Resogun to PS3 from PS4, and that kind of game needs to be played at 60fps without all the bullets blending together and looking like they were smeared with Vaseline.

 

For this, super quick load times and a smooth 60fps are a must, methinks.

[SaysWho?]

Also, the game is pretty forgiving with the biomes. The ones you beat are easier as you acquire better weaponry and items, and I even encountered a shortcut that I can access now that gets me straight to Biome 3 from Biome 1, not to mention when you enter a biome, it makes sure your proficiency is higher.

[skillzdadirecta]

I didn't know what Xbob was talking about either... the game is gorgeous and it runs pretty smoothly. I didn't run into any framerate issues at all but I'm also not super sensitive to that stuff. I had a really good run going last night until I died due to my own stupidity  Hopefully they can smooth out the bugs because it really is a good, addicting game that makes you want to do "one more run"... Game makes me wonder what a current gen Space Harrier would look like.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

8 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

It's the PS5? Wouldn't surprise me at all... this thing is finicky as hell.

 

From everything that I've read, the PS5 OS is still VERY much in the "beta test" stage of development

 

Regarding exactly what the "pre-start system" is, the speculation I've read is that it's a process by which the OS will load a small number of a game's files if you move the cursor over that game's particular tile.  I have no idea if that's true, but that's the speculation over on ResetERA because this is the first time anyone has ever heard of the "pre-start system" on the PS5.  If the crashes are largely an OS-related issue, then that would explain why some users experience them and some don't as it all depends on the overall OS operating environment at the time of the crash which means that there are several variables at play.

 

From my perspective, the idea of putting the system into its "suspend" state if you want to stop a run is absolutely ludicrous.  A suspend mode really does leave open the risk of compromising data integrity (file corruption) that simply isn't there with an actual save state.  The best way this could've been handled would've been to allow a player to have a single manual "soft" save during a run which would allow someone to stop playing without the threat of data corruption.  The soft save could be temporary which means that it would be deleted when the player died and was sent back to the beginning of the game.

[Kal-El814]

The fact that there's no kinda soft save system for a game released in the two thousand and twenty first year of our lord, where runs can be hours long, is fucking inexcusable.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 minute ago, Kal-El814 said:

The fact that there's no kinda soft save system for a game released in the two thousand and twenty first year of our lord, where runs can be hours long, is fucking inexcusable.

 

Yeah - I'm not even suggesting that there be actual save checkpoints.  It's really only one manual "soft" save per run - that's it!

[Kal-El814]

Just now, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Yeah - I'm not even suggesting that there be actual save checkpoints.  It's really only one manual "soft" save per run - that's it!

 

Yeah, same. It's a roguelike, they don't want people to save scum, I get it. This problem was solved ages ago, not implementing any of those solutions here is just dumb.

[JPDunks4]

Could you save midrun in Hades? I know its much shorter so its not as big a deal, but I remember having to shut down mid run once and hoping it'd save and it didn't.  I never took the time to go back and see if I just missed the option somewhere.

[stepee]

I’m idk 3-4 hours in I think, but so far I’m super enjoying the game itself, but as I said previously, please ignore my impressions for the first week!

 

I will say I feel like I’m actually enjoying this even though I’m not succeeding because I don’t seem to care as much when I die. I’m just exploring and grinding some permanent stuff and enjoying the action.

 

I think something fundamentally different in this than say a Souls game is that the core gameplay is just super fun. Like the act of fighting in Souls games just isn’t that fun, it’s a test of patience and strategy but the action fighting mechanics aren’t really that fun to use. This is based primarily on being fun to play first, the fast arcade shooter like action and some of the most fluid controls in a third person shooter I’ve played. The gameplay is good enough that it could just be a wave shooter if it wanted and people would still like it because of great solid fun mechanics. So you are just playing a game like an arcade shooter only now you are at least making some progress as you die. It’s easier to swallow for me I think.

 

That and they are generous with health pickups, usually at least one per room. This is huge for me because it means I can start losing focus and thinking about work or something and get hit hard but have a chance to be right back at 100% and start fresh in a room or two. Having those second chances frequently makes it a lot less stressful for me, I feel like a run could always be recovered.

 

But seriously can we talk about how good the third person shooting is? Is this just recency bias or is this at least on gamepad the best playing third person shooter yet? Like what controls better on game pad for aiming and moving around like this? Control is great but it’s not that. How did they make aiming on analog (and I only play with a gamepad) actually feel accurate while not feeling like it’s cheating with too much auto correct!

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

4 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

Could you save midrun in Hades? I know its much shorter so its not as big a deal, but I remember having to shut down mid run once and hoping it'd save and it didn't.  I never took the time to go back and see if I just missed the option somewhere.

 

Hades has an autosave feature.

 

"Saving your Progress - Hades Wiki"

Saving your Progress - Hades Wiki

HADES.FANDOM.COM

---

Hades uses an autosave feature that frequently saves your progress in the game. There are 4 available save slots and starting a new game requires you to choose one of the 4 slots to save in. You can also start a new save file with Hell...

 

 

[SaysWho?]

8 minutes ago, stepee said:

I’m idk 3-4 hours in I think, but so far I’m super enjoying the game itself, but as I said previously, please ignore my impressions for the first week!

 

I will say I feel like I’m actually enjoying this even though I’m not succeeding because I don’t seem to care as much when I die. I’m just exploring and grinding some permanent stuff and enjoying the action.

 

I think something fundamentally different in this than say a Souls game is that the core gameplay is just super fun. Like the act of fighting in Souls games just isn’t that fun, it’s a test of patience and strategy but the action fighting mechanics aren’t really that fun to use. This is based primarily on being fun to play first, the fast arcade shooter like action and some of the most fluid controls in a third person shooter I’ve played. The gameplay is good enough that it could just be a wave shooter if it wanted and people would still like it because of great solid fun mechanics. So you are just playing a game like an arcade shooter only now you are at least making some progress as you die. It’s easier to swallow for me I think.

 

That and they are generous with health pickups, usually at least one per room. This is huge for me because it means I can start losing focus and thinking about work or something and get hit hard but have a chance to be right back at 100% and start fresh in a room or two. Having those second chances frequently makes it a lot less stressful for me, I feel like a run could always be recovered.

 

But seriously can we talk about how good the third person shooting is? Is this just recency bias or is this at least on gamepad the best playing third person shooter yet? Like what controls better on game pad for aiming and moving around like this? Control is great but it’s not that. How did they make aiming on analog (and I only play with a gamepad) actually feel accurate while not feeling like it’s cheating with too much auto correct!

That’s Housemarque for you. Their games control perfectly. Resogun felt buttery smooth.

[stepee]

ok someone just spoil this for me do you ever get a double jump and if so do you also ever get is as a permanent thing 

[JPDunks4]

4 minutes ago, stepee said:

ok someone just spoil this for me do you ever get a double jump and if so do you also ever get is as a permanent thing 

 

Spoiler

Nope - at least not that I've seen.

 

[JPDunks4]

I've definitely had some frame drops, but haven't really noticed them during actual combat.  It's typically when I'm moving fast from area to area.  So maybe something to with loading.

 

Visually I think it's a very nice looking game.  The colors and particle effects are all very beautiful against the dark landscapes.

 

 

[best3444]

18 minutes ago, stepee said:

I’m idk 3-4 hours in I think, but so far I’m super enjoying the game itself, but as I said previously, please ignore my impressions for the first week!

 

I will say I feel like I’m actually enjoying this even though I’m not succeeding because I don’t seem to care as much when I die. I’m just exploring and grinding some permanent stuff and enjoying the action.

 

I think something fundamentally different in this than say a Souls game is that the core gameplay is just super fun. Like the act of fighting in Souls games just isn’t that fun, it’s a test of patience and strategy but the action fighting mechanics aren’t really that fun to use. This is based primarily on being fun to play first, the fast arcade shooter like action and some of the most fluid controls in a third person shooter I’ve played. The gameplay is good enough that it could just be a wave shooter if it wanted and people would still like it because of great solid fun mechanics. So you are just playing a game like an arcade shooter only now you are at least making some progress as you die. It’s easier to swallow for me I think.

 

That and they are generous with health pickups, usually at least one per room. This is huge for me because it means I can start losing focus and thinking about work or something and get hit hard but have a chance to be right back at 100% and start fresh in a room or two. Having those second chances frequently makes it a lot less stressful for me, I feel like a run could always be recovered.

 

But seriously can we talk about how good the third person shooting is? Is this just recency bias or is this at least on gamepad the best playing third person shooter yet? Like what controls better on game pad for aiming and moving around like this? Control is great but it’s not that. How did they make aiming on analog (and I only play with a gamepad) actually feel accurate while not feeling like it’s cheating with too much auto correct!

 

@Xbob42 please respond.