Update: new Himalayan clashes between Indian and Chinese forces claim life of Indian special forces soldier

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Dozens of Indian and Chinese soldiers have exchanged physical blows in a clash on the shared border, Indian media report.

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Seven Chinese and four Indian troops were injured, an army official reportedly said, near the Naku La sector in the border state of Sikkim.

 

Local commanders spoke and resolved the dispute, which took place on Saturday.

 

[skillzdadirecta]

Oh damn...

 

 

[Bloodporne]

Fuck I was ready to watch that video so hard

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Thousands of Chinese troops reportedly move into sensitive areas along Himalayan frontier

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Tensions between China and India over their Himalayan border have escalated, with China accused of moving thousands of troops into disputed territory and expanding a military airbase in the region.

 

Thousands of Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) troops are reported to have moved into sensitive areas along the eastern Ladakh border, setting up tents and stationing vehicles and heavy machinery in what India considers to be its territory.

 

In response, the Indian army has moved several battalions from an infantry division usually based in the Ladakh city of Leh to “operational alert areas” along the border, and reinforcement troops have been brought in.

 

 

[mclumber1]

Who do you think would win in a non-nuclear conflict between China and India?  

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

22 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

Who do you think would win in a non-nuclear conflict between China and India?  

China, and it won't even be remotely anything resembling close.

[AbsolutSurgen]

30 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

Who do you think would win in a non-nuclear conflict between China and India?  

There is unlikely to be outright war between the two beyond minor skirmishes with small amounts of troops. A large scale invasion, IMHO, by China into India is very unlikely, given both have nuclear weapons, and that it would likely result in Western powers getting involved. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

27 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

There is unlikely to be outright war between the two beyond minor skirmishes with small amounts of troops. A large scale invasion, IMHO, by China into India is very unlikely, given both have nuclear weapons, and that it would likely result in Western powers getting involved. 

I wholeheartedly concur with this cogent analysis.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Besides giving India arms and maybe some other forms of related military aid what exactly would the west be willing to get involved with for Kashmir? Diplomatic pressure to prevent a nuclear war is about as far as I see them going.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

6 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Besides giving India arms and maybe some other forms of related military aid what exactly would the west be willing to get involved with for Kashmir? Diplomatic pressure to prevent a nuclear war is about as far as I see them going.

Point of order: this is a separate issue than Kashmir which involves India and Pakistan

[CitizenVectron]

Let's say that small-scale skirmishes turn into a larger, regional conflict along the border (with the goal of proportional responses, not total invasion by either side). What do the major world powers do? 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

15 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

Let's say that small-scale skirmishes turn into a larger, regional conflict along the border (with the goal of proportional responses, not total invasion by either side). What do the major world powers do? 

Honestly?  Considering the governments involved, let them fight.

 

Realistically?  Lots of diplomatic hand-wringing at the UN by the powerless Europeans, a fairly pro-India posture by the US, and not a word from Japan.

 

Personally, I would love nothing more than seeing Modi's Hindu-chauvanist government be dealt such a humiliating military defeat that it's decisively toppled from power.  The downside is that it would come at the hands of the odious regime in Beijing.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

13 minutes ago, Emperor Diocletian II said:

Point of order: this is a separate issue than Kashmir which involves India and Pakistan

Yes but...I mean is it though?

 

How many billions in development loans has China given Pakistan? There might be enough leverage there to at least keep India preoccupied in a two front situation.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Yes but...I mean is it though?

 

How many billions in development loans has China given Pakistan? There might be enough leverage there to at least keep India preoccupied in a two front situation.

Sure - I  can buy that!

[AbsolutSurgen]

13 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

Let's say that small-scale skirmishes turn into a larger, regional conflict along the border (with the goal of proportional responses, not total invasion by either side). What do the major world powers do? 

I don't think that is very likely.  I don't really see that its in the best interests of either for a larger-scale war.  IMHO, ATM they are both trying to not show weakness.  I think India has seen that giving concessions to China is a mistake -- China looks at it as a sign of weakness, rather than an attempt at reconciliation

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

India says soldiers killed on disputed Himalayan border with China

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Three members of India’s armed forces have been killed in a “violent face-off” with Chinese soldiers on their disputed Himalayan border, the Indian army has said in a statement.

 

The deaths are the first loss of life in the border area in at least 45 years, and come amid a renewed dispute between the two countries in recent weeks. Indian and Chinese soldiers, who often do not carry weapons in the area to avoid escalating conflicts, have brawled, detained each other and deployed forces and equipment in the western Himalayas in recent weeks.

 

“During the de-escalation process under way in the Galwan Valley, a violent face-off took place yesterday [Monday] night with casualties on both sides,” the Indian army said in a statement on Tuesday afternoon Delhi-time. “The loss of lives on the Indian side includes an officer and two soldiers.”

 

[Signifyin(g)Monkey]

Honestly I could *maybe* see Xi try to annex some small ‘sensitive regions’ near the Chinese-Indian border, betting that no one will care enough to start a military campaign against him, a la Putin and Crimea.

He’s been silently building up the Chinese army the past few years and it’s getting comparable to those of Western powers in its might.

 

Plus the Chinese economy is slowing,  his handling of the coronavirus crisis was ‘meh’, and he’s pissing off the ‘old guard’ In the government from the Deng Xiaoping-era regime by returning to Mao-style one-man leadership and using his ‘anti-corruption’ campaign to eliminate his political rivals.  He needs to gin up all the nationalism and mindless hero-worship he can get out of the Chinese masses.  A big middle finger to Modi and the West could be just what the doctor ordered.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Update: the clashes went on for "several hours" with at least 20 Indian KIA.

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Border tensions between India and China turned deadly for the first time in decades when the two countries’ armies clashed in a disputed area in the Himalayan Mountains, leaving 20 Indian soldiers dead, according to India.

 

The Indian government said Chinese forces also suffered casualties. A Chinese spokesman said a clash took place after Indian soldiers “provocatively attacked” in an area China considers under its control, but he didn’t comment on whether troops on either side were killed or injured.

 

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

6 hours ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said:

Honestly I could *maybe* see Xi try to annex some small ‘sensitive regions’ near the Chinese-Indian border, betting that no one will care enough to start a military campaign against him, a la Putin and Crimea.

He’s been silently building up the Chinese army the past few years and it’s getting comparable to those of Western powers in its might.

 

Plus the Chinese economy is slowing,  his handling of the coronavirus crisis was ‘meh’, and he’s pissing off the ‘old guard’ In the government from the Deng Xiaoping-era regime by returning to Mao-style one-man leadership and using his ‘anti-corruption’ campaign to eliminate his political rivals.  He needs to gin up all the nationalism and mindless hero-worship he can get out of the Chinese masses.  A big middle finger to Modi and the West could be just what the doctor ordered.

 

Oh yeah - Beijing will attempt to claim a few more square miles (if even that much) and declare "victory".

[mclumber1]

Looking at Google Maps, it doesn't appear that there is really anything of strategic value in this area.  I understand that there is a geopolitical calculus at play here, but beyond that, what is there to fight over in this area besides pride and such?

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Just now, mclumber1 said:

Looking at Google Maps, it doesn't appear that there is really anything of strategic value in this area.  I understand that there is a geopolitical calculus at play here, but beyond that, what is there to fight over in this area besides pride and such?

Yes.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

The Indian media is reporting that the clashes have not involved firearms, but were close-quarters melee combat.

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Army sources say the soldiers were not shot but were killed in a physical fight on Indian Territory that involved stones and batons. The Indian soldiers retaliated and there were at least 43 causalities on the Chinese side as well, news agency ANI reported.

 

Sequence of Events:

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- Clash between Indian and Chinese soldiers last night just as Chinese troops were getting ready to move away from a location as per the agreement reached.

 

- Indian Commanding Officer (Colonel) assaulted with batons, stones.

 

- Indian soldiers retaliate in close unarmed combat. The assault lasts for several hours.

 

- Soldiers from both sides disengage after midnight. 20 Indian soldiers, including the Colonel, Killed in Action.

 

- "Significant" number of Chinese casualties.

 

- Talks to de-conflict situation held at Patrol Point 14 in Galwan River region.

 

- Precise location of the clash is unclear. 

 

 

[Amazatron]

So the Indian media has a precise casualty count for China, sure...

[mclumber1]

I wouldn't want to take on a bunch of Chinese martial artists!

 

 

[skillzdadirecta]

Yeah I'm guessing the Chinese have a 2 K/D ratio.

[AbsolutSurgen]

Indian sources are claiming that there were "43 Chinese casualties" -- either dead or seriously injured.

[Chadatog]

Waits for the Hegemon, Peter Ender, to declare the Armenian people a protected nation.

 

This is totally Achilles' doing.

[AbsolutSurgen]

PLA Death Squads Hunted Down Indian Troops in Galwan in Savage Execution Spree, Say Survivors

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Furious hand-to-hand fighting raged across the Galwan river valley for over eight hours on Monday night, as People’s Liberation Army assault teams armed with iron rods as well as batons wrapped in barbed wire hunted down and slaughtered troops of the 16 Bihar Regiment, a senior government official familiar with the debriefing of survivors at hospitals in Leh has told News18.

The savage combat, with few parallels in the history of modern armies, is confirmed to have claimed the lives of at least 23 Indian soldiers, including 16 Bihar’s commanding officer, Colonel Santosh Babu, many because of protracted exposure to sub-zero temperatures the Indian Army said late on Tuesday.

“Even unarmed men who fled into the hillsides were hunted down and killed,” one officer said. “The dead include men who jumped into the Galwan river in a desperate effort to escape.”

Government sources say at least another two dozen soldiers are battling life-threatening injuries, and over 110 have needed treatment. “The toll will likely go up,” a military officer with knowledge of the issue said.

 

[Jason]

China's lucky Gandhi isn't still in charge.

 

Spoiler

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Soldiers fell to their deaths as India and China's troops fought with rocks (The Guardian)

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Reinforcements from the Indian side were summoned from a post about 2 miles away and eventually about 600 men were fighting with stones, iron rods and other makeshift weapons in near-total darkness for up to six hours, Indian government sources said, with most deaths on both sides occurring from soldiers falling or being knocked from mountain terrain.

 

[Uaarkson]

It’s 2020 and the world’s two largest nuclear powers are literally fighting with sticks and stones. Einstein was right!

[thewhyteboar]

This terrain is wild.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

The Indians claim that these are the type of melee weapons used by the Chinese:

[Jason]

10 minutes ago, Emperor Diocletian II said:

The Indians claim that these are the type of melee weapons used by the Chinese:

 

[Chairslinger]

32 minutes ago, Emperor Diocletian II said:

The Indians claim that these are the type of melee weapons used by the Chinese:

 

 

Did they run out of rabid weasels on a stick?