Canada to ban 1,500 models of "military-style" weapons, including AR-15

[CitizenVectron]

 

 

Will be phased in over two years with fair compensation for owners to turn them in.

 

[mclumber1]

2 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

 

Will be phased in over two years with fair compensation for owners to turn them in.

 

 

Did we ever find out what weapon that mass shooter used? 

[chakoo]

 Good. Hand guns next please 

[CitizenVectron]

9 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

 

Did we ever find out what weapon that mass shooter used? 

 

Hard to find, but here is a list of some of the gun types being banned, and their use in previous mass shootings in Canada (and elsewhere):

 

Quote

 

•     M16, M4, AR-10 and AR-15 rifles. Those styles were used in the Sandy Hook, New Zealand, Las Vegas and Orlando mass shootings. There are an estimated 83,572 in Canada.
•     Ruger Mini-14s, the type of firearm used in the École Polytechnique shooting. There are an estimated 16,859 in Canada.
•     Swiss Arms Classic Green carbines. There are an estimated 1,342 in Canada.
•     M14 rifles, used in the Moncton shooting. There are an estimated 5,229 in Canada.
•     Vz. 58 semi-automatic rifles, used in the Quebec City mosque shooting. There are an estimated 11,593 in Canada.
•     CZ Scorpion EVO 3 carbines. There are an estimated 1,813 in Canada.
•     Beretta CX4 Storm carbines, the type of firearm used in the Dawson College shooting. There are an estimated 1,513 in Canada.
•     Sig Sauer MCX and Sig MPX carbines and pistols. There are an estimated 1,000 in Canada.
•     Robinson Arms XCR rifles. There are an estimated 1,834 in Canada.

 

The article also says:

 

Quote

The RCMP confirmed Tuesday that at least one of the firearms used in the Nova Scotia shooting could be described as an "assault-style" firearm. The Firearms Act does not currently classify firearms as "military-style" — that term would have to be defined in the new regulations.

 

This article says he used a combination of illegal long guns and hand guns, including the hand gun of the RCMP officer he killed.

[CitizenVectron]

The big problem with the policy, of course, is that we live next to a third-world nation in terms of gun policy, and guns are smuggled from the US into Canada (looks like the guns the NS shooter used were likely smuggled from the US, and purchased illegally). So this ban is a good first step to reduce the number of these guns here, but it can't stop all of these guns from being here. But perfect shouldn't be the enemy of good -- reducing the number of these guns will make it harder for people to get them, which is good.

 

Personally, I think they should just ban all semi-automatic weapons.

[CitizenVectron]

Also, fuck the NFA (Canada's NRA). Yes, the shooter imitating a cop allowed them to kill more people...but to phrase it as "trust in authority" is a dog whistle.

 

 

[Bloodporne]

12 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

Also, fuck the NFA (Canada's NRA). Yes, the shooter imitating a cop allowed them to kill more people...but to phrase it as "trust in authority" is a dog whistle.

 

 

Only a country absolutely riddled with conspiracy theories and extreme paranoia must be the way to go yeah, it clearly works for America and its sane populace. 

[Rodimus]

Well one country is taking this seriously and protecting it citizens.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

3 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

The big problem with the policy, of course, is that we live next to a third-world nation in terms of gun policy, and guns are smuggled from the US into Canada (looks like the guns the NS shooter used were likely smuggled from the US, and purchased illegally). So this ban is a good first step to reduce the number of these guns here, but it can't stop all of these guns from being here. But perfect shouldn't be the enemy of good -- reducing the number of these guns will make it harder for people to get them, which is good.

 

Personally, I think they should just ban all semi-automatic weapons.

Well maybe you shouldn’t live next to a shit hole country. Maybe Canada should try moving to a better neighborhood. 
 

2 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

Also, fuck the NFA (Canada's NRA). Yes, the shooter imitating a cop allowed them to kill more people...but to phrase it as "trust in authority" is a dog whistle.

 

 

“gun control never protects the public”, says nobody in a country to with heavy gun control regulations. 
 

The NFA and NRA  members can all be lined up and shot. Then have those guns banned. It won’t solve all problems. But it will solve enough. 

[Zaku3]

10 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Well maybe you shouldn’t live next to a shit hole country. Maybe Canada should try moving to a better neighborhood. 
 

“gun control never protects the public”, says nobody in a country to with heavy gun control regulations. 
 

The NFA and NRA  members can all be lined up and shot. Then have those guns banned. It won’t solve all problems. But it will solve enough. 

Maybe Canada should build a wall.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

7 minutes ago, Zaku3 said:

Maybe Canada should build a wall.

Or a very deep, very wide trench. With moose and bears in it. 

[Keyser_Soze]

Apoc is gonna be sad.

[silentbob]

3 hours ago, Rodimus said:

Well one country is taking this seriously and protecting it citizens.

New Zealand?

[chakoo]

3 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Or a very deep, very wide trench. With moose and bears in it. 

 

front line infantry

[Brick]

My gun owning friend is not going to like this. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

7 minutes ago, Brick said:

My gun owning friend is not going to like this. 

Can tell you are canadian because you only have *one* gun owning friend.

[Nokra]

I feel like this should be merged into the thread of Canadian good governance*.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Not really, I'm just jelly.  

[Rodimus]

On 5/1/2020 at 5:35 PM, silentbob said:

New Zealand?

Yup middle earth is ahead of this for sure.

[Guest]

They should ban even more

[Jason]

 

[CitizenVectron]

1 hour ago, sblfilms said:

They should ban even more

 

Handguns should be next. There is no legitimate utility for them except to harm people or use at a range...and the latter is not important enough of an activity to keep. I wonder what % of Canadians would support banning them, I bet it's still north of 60%.

 

People are speculating that the Conservative Party is going to take a hit over this issue, and I believe it's true. I know it's silly, but someone pointed out online that the CPC leader is an American citizen (Scheer), their biggest crazy gun nut MP (and one of their biggest nuts in general) is currently living in the US (Oklahoma) during the pandemic (Michelle Rempel), and that they are in bed with NRA-style groups. The CPC has been adopting American-style politics for the last 10 years...and Canadians don't like that. So these little coincidences, while silly, pile onto the idea that the CPC are the GOP-lite.

[Brick]

I know some gun advocates don't like this because they feel that since this psycho got these guns illegally, how will these new restrictions prevent something similar, and all it does is punish lawful gun owners. Ok, but if you make a certain thing illegal to have in the country, doesn't that make it then harder to smuggle in that item to begin with? 

 

Also seen critism that this ban (and our gun laws in general) make no sense, and is just based on what guns are "scary looking", ie because an AR-15 is military style, black metal, it's getting banned, whereas a very similar gun that takes the same type of ammunition, holds the same amount of ammo, fires exactly the same way, has the same amount of ballistic force, etc., but it's got wood and classified as a hunting rifle isn't on this list, this list makes no sense, and that those in government know nothing about guns. I mean they could probably add those rifles next... 

 

I mean sure I guess I'd say I'm for responsible gun ownership, and if you want to own a gun for home defense, hunting, range shooting (it's fun, I've been before and would like to again), then yeah go through the proper legal requirements to get one, but can we have a civil discussion about gun laws without flying off the handles and accusing the government to take away all guns because it's a long plan to go all fascist dictatorship? At the same time though if we did go full out "no guns allowed" it's no skin off my back, and there are other civilized, 1st world counties that have super heavy restrictions on guns that are not oppressive regimes, so... 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

56 minutes ago, Brick said:

Also seen critism that this ban (and our gun laws in general) make no sense, and is just based on what guns are "scary looking", ie because an AR-15 is military style, black metal, it's getting banned, whereas a very similar gun that takes the same type of ammunition, holds the same amount of ammo, fires exactly the same way, has the same amount of ballistic force, etc., but it's got wood and classified as a hunting rifle isn't on this list, this list makes no sense, and that those in government know nothing about guns.

Literally half the reason these ammosexuals want these guns is because they look "cool" or "scary"

 

Make them frilly, pink, and covered in hello Kitty images and the appeal is lessened. The Punisher aesthetic doesn't exactly mesh with non black colors. Same should apply to LEOs as well

[SimpleG]

37 minutes ago, Brick said:

I know some gun advocates don't like this because they feel that since this psycho got these guns illegally, how will these new restrictions prevent something similar, and all it does is punish lawful gun owners. Ok, but if you make a certain thing illegal to have in the country, doesn't that make it then harder to smuggle in that item to begin with? 

Does it make harder , yes it does. Will it stop it from happening , no it wont. This a common faulty argument pro gun owners will use that if it doesnt stop it 100% then it worthless.

 

43 minutes ago, Brick said:

Also seen critism that this ban (and our gun laws in general) make no sense, and is just based on what guns are "scary looking", ie because an AR-15 is military style, black metal, it's getting banned, whereas a very similar gun that takes the same type of ammunition, holds the same amount of ammo, fires exactly the same way, has the same amount of ballistic force, etc., but it's got wood and classified as a hunting rifle isn't on this list, this list makes no sense, and that those in government know nothing about guns. I mean they could probably add those rifles next... 

I just kind of glanced over the laws. One of the guns on list is the Mini 14

 

Its a 6 round general purpose "cattle ranch" style of gun. Of course they can be made into this

 

That can hold 30 rounds

So it appears they going full out on the ban in some cases.

 

 

 

[Brick]

LEOs? 

[SimpleG]

1 minute ago, Brick said:

LEOs? 

Law enforcement Officer

[Guest]

All gun crime begins with a legal sale. Limit9 those initial sales substantially.

[Brick]

54 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

Law enforcement Officer

 

Ah yes, of course. Marvel should really do something about the amount of cops that use The Punisher logo on their uniforms, cops cars, and as a symbol of Blue Lives Matter. I know some precincts have cracked down on that and not allowed. I honestly wouldn't trust a cop that had like a Punisher pin on their lapel or something; do they not understand what that character is about?! He goes against everything the police are supposed to stand for! 

[CitizenVectron]

1 hour ago, sblfilms said:

All gun crime begins with a legal sale. Limit9 those initial sales substantially.

 

Exactly. I saw an estimate recently that about 1/3 of illegally-owned guns in Canada are thought to be smuggled from the US, and 2/3 were legally purchased and then illegally resold (since you can get 2-3x as much that way, in cash). Obviously there will always be a way to get a gun for murder if you plan enough ahead and are savvy, but if we restrict the supply it becomes much more difficult.

[Guest]

It’s kinda crazy, but it turns out if you have less of a thing available the price tends to go up. Look at what street gangs in the U.K. often do, they buy guns but don’t buy ammo because it’s just too expensive and they get the desired result just by brandishing the unloaded weapon.

[Brick]

1 hour ago, sblfilms said:

All gun crime begins with a legal sale. Limit9 those initial sales substantially.

 

Exactly. I've never understood it when people argue, "yeah but most of those crimes are committed with illegal weapons". Sure, but it's not like gun manufacturers make a batch of guns to be sold legally, and another to be sold illegally. I don't know how the illegal gun black market works, but I would have to imagine those guns are stolen, and were at one point legally owned firearms. If a country makes a certain type of gun banned, then the manufacturer will obviously stop manufacturing the gun in country and/or shipping it over to be sold, thereby making it now harder for that gun to be obtained in the country because it needs to be smuggled in. 

 

That and that argument comes up a lot after mass shootings, and ok crime being done with illegal guns, like gang violence for example is a problem that new regulations might not be able to affect heavily (ie things like newer, longer background checks, increased pricing, mandatory training courses, etc. since the guns are just being bought on the black market) but a lot of these mass shootings have been done with legally bought guns. 

 

"New laws won't stop criminals because criminals don't obey the laws!" 

 

No, but making it harder for them to easily get guns can help! 

 

Strong gun laws are proven to help reduce gun violence, and any country with strong gun laws is proof of that. UK, Australia, and even Canada despite the recent events. Canada only has as big as a gun problem as it does because we're right besides the States, and I've heard 60-70% of illegal guns come from across the border. (although if @CitizenVectron's number of 1/3 is more accurate, that's still a large number). 

[CitizenVectron]

The federal government is also moving forward on legislation allowing cities/jurisdictions to ban handguns: https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-says-legislation-on-municipal-handgun-bans-coming-1.4922898

 

I imagine the big cities (Toronto, Vancouver, etc) will want and use this. Again, I would rather see a handgun ban enacted federally, but most Canadians live in large cities (50% of the country lives in metro Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, Calgary, Ottawa, and Edmonton), so this would still have a pretty big effect.

[Brick]

 

 

A video from as month ago that has some relevant points to the topic at hand.