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Alabama Governor Fires Education Official over Wokeness

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Jason

Jason

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10 minutes ago, Air_Delivery said:

I have been mostly plesently surprised by Biden. Only thing he's done I didn't like was the breaking of the rail strike. 

 

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“The Biden Administration framed their proposal as a ban on blanket discrimination against trans athletes,” Jones said. “But actually, it provides guidelines for how schools and universities can ban trans athletes legally.”

 

https://apnews.com/article/trans-athletes-biden-title-ix-28c6c78e9cd60a4c334de15bfdd624fe

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Jason

Jason

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17 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

Yes Biden isn’t a more left of fdr so he sucks

 

great take.

 

The point was

 

32 minutes ago, Air_Delivery said:

Only thing he's done I didn't like was the breaking of the rail strike. 

 

There is clearly more than that one shitty thing he's done while in office.

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Air_Delivery

Air_Delivery

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As far as transgender people competing in sports. I've always been of the opinion it should be decided by science. If its shown transwomen have a significant advantage over biological women then they shouldn't be allowed to compete. If there is some benchmark they must satisfy before they compete then thats what it should be.

 

 

And when I said "only thing" I meant things I really care about. And that Slate article's title is exaggerated to get clicks. 

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unogueen

unogueen

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1 hour ago, Air_Delivery said:

As far as transgender people competing in sports. I've always been of the opinion it should be decided by science. If its shown transwomen have a significant advantage over biological women then they shouldn't be allowed to compete. If there is some benchmark they must satisfy before they compete then thats what it should be.

 

 

And when I said "only thing" I meant things I really care about. And that Slate article's title is exaggerated to get clicks. 

The science is already settled. Whatever human dymorphism concept today is a long winded chase of fads in the first place. Pink was for boys once.

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Xbob42

Xbob42

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Hmm, sounds an awful lot like all you need to do is come up with a word that means "conservative, Christian" without saying those words in order to be able to fire anyone with those values! "They were just too crusty, we can't have folks pushing crusty ideology so we fired 'em"

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TUFKAK

TUFKAK

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Posted
1 hour ago, Jason said:

 

The point was

 

 

There is clearly more than that one shitty thing he's done while in office.

Perfect isn’t the enemy of good.

 

Societal change is a marathon not a sprint my guy.

 

I was way more pissed off than most about the rail strike I assure you but name me the last democrat president who was pro-union in policy not just words. Definitely far better than the last democrat on that front.

 

As far as trans athletes, in strength related sports the effects of testosterone are pronounced. Arguing against that is ridiculous but this argument isn’t actually about fairness in sports and we know it.

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TUFKAK

TUFKAK

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5 hours ago, unogueen said:

Who the fuck gives a crap about 'competition'. I need 'competent' people in daily life.

So go fuck yourself China bot you’re not worth my response. 

 

But I figured this was a relevant topic. 
 

who gives a fuck about competition? Competitors. Our lives revolve around a ten dollar trophy, it may mean nothing to you but it’s everything to us. Things we sacrifice to; not only our health but our day to day life for. I can’t go out tonight, I have to train, has been my life for years.

 

I’ve been in relationships with female bodybuilders, go ahead and tell them their goals aren’t important.

 

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skillzdadirecta

skillzdadirecta

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8 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

So go fuck yourself China bot you’re not worth my response. 

 

But I figured this was a relevant topic. 
 

who gives a fuck about competition? Competitors. Our lives revolve around a ten dollar trophy, it may mean nothing to you but it’s everything to us. Things we sacrifice to; not only our health but our day to day life for. I can’t go out tonight, I have to train, has been my life for years.

 

I’ve been in relationships with female bodybuilders, go ahead and tell them their goals aren’t important.

 

Its not just about competition it's about safety. Put someone with the physical traits of a male in the ring with someone who doesn't have those traits and watch what happens. It won't be pretty. The whole "Trans in sports" thing is incredibly overstated and is being used by The Right to further vilify and discriminate against members of that community for sure, but let's not be completely ignorant about potential issues that could arise by not dealing with this in a thoughtful,  responsible way. Full contact sports should be looked at specifically in my opinion.

 

 

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TUFKAK

TUFKAK

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3 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Its not just about competition it's about safety. Put someone with the physical traits of a male in the ring with someone who doesn't have those traits and watch what happens. It won't be pretty. The whole "Trans in sports" thing is incredibly overstated and is being used by The Right to further vilify and discriminate against members of that community for sure, but let's not be completely ignorant about potential issues that could arise by not dealing with this in a thoughtful,  responsible way. Full contact sports should be looked at specifically in my opinion.

 

 

My personal record bench is simultaneously less than half of a males world record while being better than the woman’s bench record.

 

I’m an “elite” lifter based on data but just no. I’m not. I’m an average gym goer imo.

 

I don’t want trans issues to reduced to athletics, it shouldn’t be. But we can have perspective

 

Plus Denise knew how to suck way better than Debra.

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finaljedi

finaljedi

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The problem with the "trans people in sports" argument is it's used by every bigoted right winger to jam bigotry into serious conversation.  Trans people are rare, trans people in sports are rarer still, trans people who can play sports at a competitive level are practically unicorns.  Every conversation about trans civil rights pivots to a group who is very concerned about ethics in games journ... fairness in women's sports, it's a beachhead to get marginalization in the conversation and make it difficult to argue against.  My stance is just if the cost of equality means a few women don't get medals then I still think we're getting it at a bargain.

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BloodyHell

BloodyHell

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3 hours ago, TUFKAK said:

So go fuck yourself China bot you’re not worth my response. 

 

But I figured this was a relevant topic. 
 

who gives a fuck about competition? Competitors. Our lives revolve around a ten dollar trophy, it may mean nothing to you but it’s everything to us. Things we sacrifice to; not only our health but our day to day life for. I can’t go out tonight, I have to train, has been my life for years.

 

I’ve been in relationships with female bodybuilders, go ahead and tell them their goals aren’t important.

 

This is it. 
I do understand that trans people lead a difficult life, but the differences between male and females in competition is extremely wide, and it comes down to far more than just hormones. Men have bigger heart and lungs on average, higher red blood cell count, pretending dimorphism isn't real is disingenuous at best. 

 

Then as you pointed out, competition is incredibly important. I've heard this multiple times. "Who cares about a silly competition", and it's always by people who don't have a single competitive bone in their body, and have never actually worked to excel at any physical endeavor. Of course it "doesn't matter" if you have no interest in sport.

 

And yes, the right definitely uses it as a major culture war issue, but it's also one issue that's real. 

I mean, if Lebron took a yyear of estrogen, is it fair that he'd go compete in the NBA? If Brock Lesnar decided he wanted the womens UFC heavyweight championship.?

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CitizenVectron

CitizenVectron

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6 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

This is it. 
I do understand that trans people lead a difficult life, but the differences between male and females in competition is extremely wide, and it comes down to far more than just hormones. Men have bigger heart and lungs on average, higher red blood cell count, pretending dimorphism isn't real is disingenuous at best. 

 

Then as you pointed out, competition is incredibly important. I've heard this multiple times. "Who cares about a silly competition", and it's always by people who don't have a single competitive bone in their body, and have never actually worked to excel at any physical endeavor. Of course it "doesn't matter" if you have no interest in sport.

 

And yes, the right definitely uses it as a major culture war issue, but it's also one issue that's real. 

I mean, if Lebron took a yyear of estrogen, is it fair that he'd go compete in the NBA? If Brock Lesnar decided he wanted the womens UFC heavyweight championship. 

 

If it's about testosterone and weight and size, then let's make it about that, not about gender/sex. Because there are some women who are born with the genetics to allow them to compete in the top 1% of their own gender and who could crush the majority of men in some sports, and are better than some trans women. Why should they be allowed to compete when a trans woman who is worse cannot? If it's not about discrimination and is just about the science, then let's make some hard rules and enforce them, even if that means excluding some non-trans women and men. But it's never actually about the science.

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GoldenTongue

GoldenTongue

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1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

If it's about testosterone and weight and size, then let's make it about that, not about gender/sex. Because there are some women who are born with the genetics to allow them to compete in the top 1% of their own gender and who could crush the majority of men in some sports, and are better than some trans women. Why should they be allowed to compete when a trans woman who is worse cannot? If it's not about discrimination and is just about the science, then let's make some hard rules and enforce them, even if that means excluding some non-trans women and men. But it's never actually about the science.

The problem is that many of the arguments regarding testosterone (in particular) are poorly framed.  There are some who suggest that a trans woman is competing on a level playfield because their testosterone is in line with cis women athletes...disregarding the fact that 10,15,20 years of living as a male with elevated testosterone levels (respective of cis women) leaves a lasting biological marker that cannot be undone with short-term hormonal therapy.

 

But the real issue isn't that - it's that most discussions on the topic are highly emotionally charged, as often as not, and (as others have mentioned) the arguments/debates themselves about the issue are often raised to offer a reductive point (that is more easily digested) within the context of a much larger and more complex discussion.

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BloodyHell

BloodyHell

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1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

If it's about testosterone and weight and size, then let's make it about that, not about gender/sex. Because there are some women who are born with the genetics to allow them to compete in the top 1% of their own gender and who could crush the majority of men in some sports, and are better than some trans women. Why should they be allowed to compete when a trans woman who is worse cannot? If it's not about discrimination and is just about the science, then let's make some hard rules and enforce them, even if that means excluding some non-trans women and men. But it's never actually about the science.

You’re so fundamentally wrong about this, and you refuse to accept it. 
 

There are zero women who can compete at the top levels of men’s sports. You can screen for size, weight, testosterone, or any other metrics, there is no fair competition for women when male athletes are involved. 
 

there are currently 250+ high school track athletes who can beat the women’s world record in almost every event.

 

we are stronger pound for pound by almost 30%, have bigger muscle bellies, higher red blood cell count, heart and lungs for better endurance and oxygen uptake into the bloodstream. We are superior athletes by almost every metric, speed, endurance, strength, body fat percentages. We created women’s sports because theres no place for them in men’s to fairly compete. And then theres contact sports….

 

It doesn’t matter if its only one medal, or only one scholarship, it’s not fair to the biological women competing for that spot after working their whole lives for it. 

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finaljedi

finaljedi

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and now the conversation has pivoted from civil rights to a lesser issue to drive that wedge.

 

Physical competition is less important than civil rights.  There are plenty of genetic reasons why someone might be better than someone else when it comes to sports, but let's zero in on this one thing to distract from the fact that discrimination against trans people is no different than the other forms of discrimination we decided were not okay years ago

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