Sony Do I just not "get" Returnal?

[XxEvil AshxX]

So I just got a PS5 a few days ago and one of the games I downloaded off PS+ was Returnal. And so far I'm pretty intrigued by the loop, but I'm not making any progress.

 

Now, I get that it's a roguelike. But I was under the impression that each time you played through, you could find certain things that permanently enhanced your character. I've played through the cycle (or whatever its called) quite a few times now, and I've gotten to the first actual boss a few times. I always get it down to the last bar but I just can't manage to beat it. I realize a lot of it is just getting better at the game, but to be honest, trying to memorize the boss's patterns while also having to retread the entire zone before trying again is kind of a buzzkill. Each time I fight him I get a little bit further, but honestly I'm getting tired of running around this area over and over. 

 

I don't feel like the character is progressing at all. She has one or two things that I found when I played through the first cycle (which I'm assuming is really easy on purpose), but nothing since. I don't expect to get overpowered, but I thought there would be some minor bump in stats or something, not just everything resetting when she dies.

 

I've been feeding that pillar by the ship Ether every time I have enough, and I get that they now drop whenever I play through the level, but... is that the extent of it? 

 

Am I missing something here? Am I doing it wrong?

 

I'm guessing this is also "Level 1" and that it probably only gets tougher from here. Not sure I have the energy.

[Chris-]

@Bloodporne

 

[stepee]

It was too difficult for me.

[JPDunks4]

Your weapons get upgraded as you play, and those are permanent upgrades.  So when you pick up any weapon, check the special perks/mods it has on it.  You will need to level up those mods the first time you pick up each weapons, ant he perks that roll on each weapon are random each time.

 

The next time you play, if you unlocked the mods on the weapon, you wont have to unlock the same mod again if it happens to be on that specific weapon.

 

Other than that, you also will get a few other permanent upgrades as you progress, but honeslty its been quite a while so I don't recall exactly what they were other than the big ones.

[rossi_84]

First boss is the biggest hurdle. After that it is easier to get a good run in to make progress.

 

Don't rush during the boss fight, don't try to get a few extra shots run early, and always run.

[XxEvil AshxX]

14 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

Your weapons get upgraded as you play, and those are permanent upgrades.  So when you pick up any weapon, check the special perks/mods it has on it.  You will need to level up those mods the first time you pick up each weapons, ant he perks that roll on each weapon are random each time.

 

The next time you play, if you unlocked the mods on the weapon, you wont have to unlock the same mod again if it happens to be on that specific weapon.

 

Other than that, you also will get a few other permanent upgrades as you progress, but honeslty its been quite a while so I don't recall exactly what they were other than the big ones.

 

Hmm.. I think I've noticed that trait on the weapons I pick up, but I haven't paid attention to if they're consistenly increasing or not. I'll do that the next time I boot it up.

 

I'll give it a bit more time. I at least want to get this first boss beat before I decide whether to move on. I do like the gameplay.

[XxEvil AshxX]

1 minute ago, rossi_84 said:

First boss is the biggest hurdle. After that it is easier to get a good run in to make progress.

 

Don't rush during the boss fight, don't try to get a few extra shots run early, and always run.

 

Yeah I've been trying to run around and get my proficiency as high as I can. So far I can get the guns to 3 before I essentially run out of things to shoot.

[crispy4000]

I still only made it to the second zone (haven’t played it much), but the first boss never gave me a problem.  Beat it second try.

 

Feels harder than Hades to me, maybe that’s because the runs feel so much longer.  I didn’t realize there’s an auto sprint option, I should give it a try again after I wrap up Fallen Order.

[best3444]

12 hours ago, XxEvil AshxX said:

but to be honest, trying to memorize the boss's patterns while also having to retread the entire zone before trying again is kind of a buzzkill. Each time I fight him I get a little bit further, but honestly I'm getting tired of running around this area over and over. 

 

This is exactly why I dislike roguelike games right there. Plus I suck at videogames. 

[SaysWho?]

Ether

Weapon Perks

Weapon Unlocks

Artifact unlocks

 

Are all permanent. And perks are not these small things: they make stuff like the hollowseeker crazy powerful.

[Spork3245]

12 hours ago, stepee said:

It was too difficult for me.

Stepee is going to day-one purchase the PC release and use cheat engine.

[XxEvil AshxX]

39 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

Ether

Weapon Perks

Weapon Unlocks

Artifact unlocks

 

Are all permanent. And perks are not these small things: they make stuff like the hollowseeker crazy powerful.

 

Perks are the things that have the "I" toward the bottom, correct? The ones that are locked at first but when you use them they have a percentage that goes up until it unlocks?

 

I've got them unlocked on my guns but there seems to be a soft cap on them for the area I'm in. They stop at the first tier. Nothing that I've used continues to level up after that. I guess I'm supposed to be good enough to get through the first boss with that?

 

I'm pretty confident I could beat the boss eventually, but having to work my way to him every time is such a slog. This is why I usually avoid roguelikes.

[Bloodporne]

Since I have been bat-signaled...

 

I don't have a lot of experience with rogue-anything really so it's hard for me to compare. The way Returnal's progression works is that the more you use a gun, the more you will unlock its bonus traits and the more Ether you feed into Cthonos (sp?) from your runs, the more items you unlock. Weapon traits and Cthonos unlocks are permanent but in Returnal you don't upgrade your character but the item pool essentially. So when you unlock a weapon trait or Cthonos item permanently, it means they are now in rotation of the potential drops. 

 

The only way your character herself actually permanently changes are Metroid-style traversal/powerup upgrades but your base stats like your health pool won't. It's all in the gun upgrades instead. Your guns can get crazy with later trait unlocks. 

 

Also, I understand why some people will bounce right off that. I'm not 100% sure why Returnal grabbed me to the degree it did because I've since played Spelunky, Dead Cells, Hades and some other rogue-whatevers and while they're great games, none of them really grabbed me. I did play a lot of Nex Machina, their previous game, right before Returnal and I think I look at it a bit differently because of that. Housemarque make Arcade games and I think Returnal is way closer to that "perfect this level" Contra/Metal Slug mentality than anything else. That not being for everybody is an understatement I think so I can fully see how someone would get sick of Returnal's shit within a few hours. 

 

Gameplay-wise I would suggest to have Auto-Run on. The key to Returnal's combat is movement and positioning. A lot of enemies', including bosses', barrages you can simply out-run. Also your melee is super important and the animation is heavily magnetic. It's strong as hell and you can melee anything that's remotely close to you, in the air or not. Most enemies that aren't big boys in the first level especially go down with one melee strike, or close to it. Trying waiting for an enemy to attack, dash through it and into them, melee and get back out, that shit works on everything in Returnal. 

 

 

[JPDunks4]

Don't forget there is also Co-op.  I haven't tried it yet so not sure how it works exactly, but could get some help to get into the swing of things more and possibly understand some game mechanics more.

[Mr.Vic20]

Returnal was the first PS5 game I was actually excited about! I wanted to like it. I should have liked it. I did not like it. 

[SaysWho?]

2 hours ago, JPDunks4 said:

Don't forget there is also Co-op.  I haven't tried it yet so not sure how it works exactly, but could get some help to get into the swing of things more and possibly understand some game mechanics more.

I finally played it late last year and it’s  exactly like that. I’d recommend evil maybe try that, perhaps with someone he knows since sometimes the person you’re paired with likes to do their own thing.

 

3 hours ago, XxEvil AshxX said:

 

Perks are the things that have the "I" toward the bottom, correct? The ones that are locked at first but when you use them they have a percentage that goes up until it unlocks?

 

I've got them unlocked on my guns but there seems to be a soft cap on them for the area I'm in. They stop at the first tier. Nothing that I've used continues to level up after that. I guess I'm supposed to be good enough to get through the first boss with that?

 

I'm pretty confident I could beat the boss eventually, but having to work my way to him every time is such a slog. This is why I usually avoid roguelikes.

 

 Yes those are the perks. I know it’s tempting to want to clear everything out to upgrade weapons as much as possible, but beelining to the boss is actually recommended.

 

As mentioned, I’d try the coop to see if that helps you get the swing of things.

[skillzdadirecta]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Returnal is a current gen 3-D version of old school 16 bit side scrolling shooters. It's really not as hard as people make it out to be and they actually made it easier. If you're not digging the core mechanics of shooting, dodging and exploring it probably isn't for you. You're SUPPOSED to die a lot. It's a core mechanic. 

6 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

 

The only way your character herself actually permanently changes are Metroid-style traversal/powerup upgrades but your base stats like your health pool won't.

 

You can extend your health bar, right?

[Bloodporne]

48 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

You can extend your health bar, right?

Yeah but just for that run, never permanently. @XxEvil AshxX also I forgot how clear the game makes it or not but if you pick up a green health item with full health three times, you increase your maximum health bar size for that run. If I'm stating the obvious, sorry in advance but I've seen people mention online that they didn't know that when fighting Phrike still. There are three horizontal notches to the left of your health bar indicating how many you currently have of the three you need to increase a notch.

 

Also if you're so inclined to check it out for some movement ideas or whatever, here's a clip I uploaded for a friend of mine that I play Hunt Showdown with a little while back. 

 

 

[Bjomesphat]

I gotta say, I'm definitely not a fan of roguelikes, but Returnal has me really intrigued. I think hearing that it's kind of like a 3D shmup (which I guess would be like Sin and Punishment except not on rails?) has me really excited to play this in a few weeks.

[thedarkstark]

20 minutes ago, Bjomesphat said:

I gotta say, I'm definitely not a fan of roguelikes, but Returnal has me really intrigued. I think hearing that it's kind of like a 3D shmup (which I guess would be like Sin and Punishment except not on rails?) has me really excited to play this in a few weeks.

I'd describe it as bullet hell (enter the gungeon etc.) meets metroid prime.

[best3444]

I own this game too which hurts. I bought it when I got my PS5 because I wanted every exclusive and was being irresponsible honestly. 

[legend]

11 hours ago, best3444 said:

 

This is exactly why I dislike roguelike games right there. Plus I suck at videogames. 

 

You might enjoy Rogue Legacy 2. When you reach a boss, you can lock the world if you lose and teleport right to it on your next life. Makes it far easier to learn the patterns.

[best3444]

18 minutes ago, legend said:

 

You might enjoy Rogue Legacy 2. When you reach a boss, you can lock the world if you lose and teleport right to it on your next life. Makes it far easier to learn the patterns.

 

I looked that up just now. Not my type of game but I appreciate you looking out. 

[thedarkstark]

25 minutes ago, legend said:

 

You might enjoy Rogue Legacy 2. When you reach a boss, you can lock the world if you lose and teleport right to it on your next life. Makes it far easier to learn the patterns.

You recommended rogue to somebody who said they're not good at video games? You are sadistic.

[legend]

2 hours ago, thedarkstark said:

You recommended rogue to somebody who said they're not good at video games? You are sadistic.

 

Rogue has a shocking number of accessibilities options to make it easier without even taking away your achievements. So yeah, I recommend it!

[thedarkstark]

20 minutes ago, legend said:

 

Rogue has a shocking number of accessibilities options to make it easier without even taking away your achievements. So yeah, I recommend it!

Rogue legacy 2 despite being more forgiving than it's predecessor and some other games in the genre is still incredibly difficult I would never ever recommend it to somebody who doesn't care for roguellikes and is "bad at games"

 

It's a fantastic game but definitely not for everyone. I think dead cells is probably a better place to start for someone wanting to dip a toe

[legend]

4 minutes ago, thedarkstark said:

Rogue legacy 2 despite being more forgiving than it's predecessor and some other games in the genre is still incredibly difficult I would never ever recommend it to somebody who doesn't care for roguellikes and is "bad at games"

 

It's a fantastic game but definitely not for everyone

 

Have you actually looked at the accessibility options?  You can tune it way down. Disabling the contact damage alone makes it drastically easier.

 

 

 

[thedarkstark]

4 minutes ago, legend said:

 

Have you actually looked at the accessibility options?  You can tune it way down. Disabling the contact damage alone makes it drastically easier.

 

 

 

Was that patched in later? I haven't played since week 1 or 2 of launch

[legend]

12 minutes ago, thedarkstark said:

Was that patched in later? I haven't played since week 1 or 2 of launch

 

Hmm think it was there from the start. Pretty sure I got it when it came out and it was there. Well, at least since it's full release. (The game was in early access for a while so it might not be been in some of the pre-release versions).

[thedarkstark]

1 minute ago, legend said:

 

Hmm think it was there from the start. Pretty sure I got it when it came out and it was there. Well, at least since it's full release. (The game was in early access for a while so it might not be been in some of the pre-release versions).

Fair enough, yeah that would definitely make the game significantly easier so I stand corrected.

[crispy4000]

So I just got to the halfway point, I think I can say I get this game now.  It's a lot about managing the right risk/rewards, and not getting hit as much as possible in the first biome particularly.

 

The boss I just fought was super easy because of how much max health and protection I had stockpiled.  The biome I was just in also felt pretty cakewalk as well.  I'm beating these bosses first try.

 

One hint I don't often see mentioned: don't pick up more malfunctions than 2.  Getting that critical one when you pick up a 3rd is almost never worth it.  I ended up not opening chests and such towards the end of my last run.

  

On 1/24/2023 at 5:31 PM, XxEvil AshxX said:

 

 

I'm guessing this is also "Level 1" and that it probably only gets tougher from here. Not sure I have the energy.

 

It both does and doesn't.  As you get better at the first area, the next sections feel easier as your upgrades stack.  Harder enemies perhaps, but you'll be the one overwhelming them.

[stepee]

Wait they added difficulty options?!

 

edit: oh that post was for rogue legacy 2 lol, patched the game for nothing damnit