General Gaming Final Fantasy VII Rebirth (Remake Part 2) - "An Excellent But Inconsistent Experience" (Digital Foundry Technical Review)

[SaysWho?]

Just started Ch. 6.

 

I'm really loving this game.

[best3444]

52 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

Just started Ch. 6.

 

I'm really loving this game.

 

I loved it up to that point too then it got extremely boring. Two many mini games, too. 

 

I'll have to come back to this game later on to see if my initial impressions are accurate.

[MarSolo]

Spoilers just in case:

 

Spoiler

 

[ThreePi]

The thing is, OG FFVII mini games felt like side distractions that gave you a leg-up on the main stuff. Remake/Rebirth follows a modern game design of everything is made visible to you and everything there is to accomplish is in a checklist. So, like side stuff doesn't feel like side stuff because it's presented to you in the exact same way the main quest stuff is. 

[Keyser_Soze]

13 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

Spoilers just in case:

 

Yeah I would consider that to be a spoiler in this game. It's basically filled with so much fanservice moments anything like that is meant to surprise people.

[Keyser_Soze]

16 minutes ago, ThreePi said:

The thing is, OG FFVII mini games felt like side distractions that gave you a leg-up on the main stuff. Remake/Rebirth follows a modern game design of everything is made visible to you and everything there is to accomplish is in a checklist. So, like side stuff doesn't feel like side stuff because it's presented to you in the exact same way the main quest stuff is. 

 

In addition to that the side activities do have some sort of story attached to them with a payoff and also rewards for doing them. So if a person doesn't like doing the minigames they are actually missing out on some stuff.

[crispy4000]

2 hours ago, ThreePi said:

The thing is, OG FFVII mini games felt like side distractions that gave you a leg-up on the main stuff. Remake/Rebirth follows a modern game design of everything is made visible to you and everything there is to accomplish is in a checklist. So, like side stuff doesn't feel like side stuff because it's presented to you in the exact same way the main quest stuff is. 

There is an occasional quest or mini game that isn’t pinpointed out for you.  Typically as a result of finishing other quest lines and unlocking something.

 

2 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

In addition to that the side activities do have some sort of story attached to them with a payoff and also rewards for doing them. So if a person doesn't like doing the minigames they are actually missing out on some stuff.

 

Yeah and that’s a very good thing.  The quests here feel a lot more meaningful than FF16’s.  They do pad that with open world activities a bit, but more as a counterbalance.

 

 

[SaysWho?]

Mini games have been fun as hell in this so if there’s more, yippee ki yay.

[Xbob42]

2 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

In addition to that the side activities do have some sort of story attached to them with a payoff and also rewards for doing them. So if a person doesn't like doing the minigames they are actually missing out on some stuff.

Tough shit! Games should not be made with the idea that every gamer is going to see every scrap of content. That's such a tiring way to design games and doesn't leave any interesting stories to tell since everyone does every single thing.

There's so much weird hidden shit in OG FF7 that I'm still learning about because it involved you going to certain areas during specific points in the game when you might not have a reason to go there, it makes the game world and story feel so much bigger than it was because you never know what little scrap of content is left over, what little hints are out there.

 

Hell, if I recall correctly, the truth about Sephiroth is actually completely missable in the OG game.

 

Not quite the same as minigames having little story bits, since these were all basically cutscenes (though many did involve minigames like the submarine!) but coming off of Yakuza, let minigames have bits of story attached! It makes them that much more rewarding to do! And if someone hates them, Youtube it bitch! Stop forcing yourself to do everything when you're not enjoying it, don't treat everything like a checklist you're obligated to do you OCD motherfuckers! Grow a spine and say "no, I'm good" if you don't like it!

[best3444]

I tried B lining Rebirth and it's impossible because you get interrupted with mandatory mini games. Terrible game design. 

[SaysWho?]

25 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

Tough shit! Games should not be made with the idea that every gamer is going to see every scrap of content. That's such a tiring way to design games and doesn't leave any interesting stories to tell since everyone does every single thing.

There's so much weird hidden shit in OG FF7 that I'm still learning about because it involved you going to certain areas during specific points in the game when you might not have a reason to go there, it makes the game world and story feel so much bigger than it was because you never know what little scrap of content is left over, what little hints are out there.

 

Hell, if I recall correctly, the truth about Sephiroth is actually completely missable in the OG game.

 

Not quite the same as minigames having little story bits, since these were all basically cutscenes (though many did involve minigames like the submarine!) but coming off of Yakuza, let minigames have bits of story attached! It makes them that much more rewarding to do! And if someone hates them, Youtube it bitch! Stop forcing yourself to do everything when you're not enjoying it, don't treat everything like a checklist you're obligated to do you OCD motherfuckers! Grow a spine and say "no, I'm good" if you don't like it!

I feel as if I have different opinions than you on a ton of games, but I’m agreeing with every word of this.  

[MarSolo]

45 minutes ago, best3444 said:

2 chapters away from beating 16. This playthrough has been much more enjoyable as I completely ignored any side stuff and just rode along the story. It’s a really good action game. If you play it like I am and come to terms It’s not a traditional RPG FF, it's a 9/10 game. 

Take that XVI talk to the XVI thread and leave it out of the FFVII Rebirth thread!

 

 

1 hour ago, Xbob42 said:

Tough shit! Games should not be made with the idea that every gamer is going to see every scrap of content. That's such a tiring way to design games and doesn't leave any interesting stories to tell since everyone does every single thing.

There's so much weird hidden shit in OG FF7 that I'm still learning about because it involved you going to certain areas during specific points in the game when you might not have a reason to go there, it makes the game world and story feel so much bigger than it was because you never know what little scrap of content is left over, what little hints are out there.

 

Hell, if I recall correctly, the truth about Sephiroth is actually completely missable in the OG game.

Shit, most people never saw

Spoiler

Aerith’s Final Limit break in the game itself because they didn’t realize you could go back to Junon on the first disk WITH THE CAR.

 

[best3444]

@MarSolo I will. I'm not sure why I posted that in this thread. 

[TwinIon]

This game really cannot resist introducing a new gimmick. At every step of the game they just feel compelled to add something extra and ephemeral, and it is so infrequently worthwhile. Sometimes it's a mini game or a new mode of transportation or a new ability for the chocobo, or maybe it's a character ability that only works for this sub-chapter of the game. The chocobo ability in the canyon is interesting, but you can hardly steer it, it's hard to look down without going down (which makes it so fun to try and line things up), and all it really does is turn the map into a maze. Sure the thing you want is over there, but you have to figure out where the jump point begins. I actually really like the Chocobo power in ch 11 (with the water). It doesn't really make sense, but for the first time in the entire game it was actually kind of fun getting around.

 

I'm in chapter 11 and controlling Cait Sith is such a pain. Sure, he can run (roll), but if he bumps into something you stop, and while controlling the moogle you move incredibly slowly for no apparent reason. Also, you get to throw boxes at stuff with strangely convoluted controls. Maybe hitting a switch makes sense, but then you're throwing boxes to break boxes while Barrett is standing next to you with his gun arm in a game where you've already controlled Barrett and used his gun to break stuff from a distance, it's stretching the necessity of the gimmick too far.

 

I try to imagine this game if they had built it as an actual open world adventure where all these things you learn and do in the party were additive instead of one off gimmicks. See a box way up high? Great, pull out Barrett and blow it up. Going back to an earlier area in the game? Wonderful, now your chocobo has new abilities that make getting around a breeze!

 

Even if they didn't open up the design space to accommodate all that and they still wanted this eclectic mix of gameplay moments, they still could have cut half of them, polished the other half, and have a nice toy box of surprises instead of a junk drawer of functional but un-fun segments throughout an otherwise excellent game.

[best3444]

Don't say anything negative about this game! It’s perfect and so much fun. Mini games and new added features every 20 minutes rules! 

[crispy4000]

5 hours ago, best3444 said:

I tried B lining Rebirth and it's impossible because you get interrupted with mandatory mini games. Terrible game design. 

Mandatory minigames are my jam.  But even if they weren’t, beating the basic modes of them is very easy I’m finding.  At least so far, the optional ones are the hardest.

[legend]

2 hours ago, best3444 said:

Don't say anything negative about this game! It’s perfect and so much fun. Mini games and new added features every 20 minutes rules! 

 

Who are you raging at? People disagreeing with you about what they enjoy isn't them claiming the game is perfect and should be loved by everyone. You're the one who keeps coming back to play it even after it was suggested you take a break. No one is forcing you to play through something you're not enjoying but yourself. 

[best3444]

11 hours ago, legend said:

 

Who are you raging at? People disagreeing with you about what they enjoy isn't them claiming the game is perfect and should be loved by everyone. You're the one who keeps coming back to play it even after it was suggested you take a break. No one is forcing you to play through something you're not enjoying but yourself. 

 

Haha I'm not playing it nor am I raging....

 

I'm about to fire up the GOTY in about 19 minutes. 

[crispy4000]

I’m back to 60fps now that they added smooth mode back.  It’s not great still, but I can enjoy it better now at least.

I’m in a linear position part, so I’ll see what I can stomach once the open world is back.

[Spork3245]

57 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

I’m back to 60fps now that they added smooth mode back.  It’s not great still, but I can enjoy it better now at least.

I’m in a linear position part, so I’ll see what I can stomach once the open world is back.

Smooth mode is better than sharp mode?

[best3444]

@legend I didn't go back to this. I was just messin around. I actually just finished 16. 

 

Now I put all my focus on DD2 then I'm coming back to Rebirth. I will have a fresh mind starting Rebirth over and will take it as it is. I'm sure I will love it. 

[legend]

15 minutes ago, best3444 said:

@legend I didn't go back to this. I was just messin around. I actually just finished 16. 

 

Now I put all my focus on DD2 then I'm coming back to Rebirth. I will have a fresh mind starting Rebirth over and will take it as it is. I'm sure I will love it. 

 

I think that's for the best, but even if you don't love it, that's fine. I was responding to you acting as if everyone here thinks its perfect and cannot be criticized, when really people have just disagreed with you on whether they like the addition of minigames or not.

[best3444]

29 minutes ago, legend said:

 

I think that's for the best, but even if you don't love it, that's fine. I was responding to you acting as if everyone here thinks its perfect and cannot be criticized, when really people have just disagreed with you on whether they like the addition of minigames or not.

 

No. I was being stupid. Sorry to get you to respond to my stupidity. I'll have to learn to be patient and enjoy some of the mini-games that are presented here. With me playing it with no deadline or worrying about another game I'm sure ill really enjoy this. I'm fuckin weird I know. 

[crispy4000]

3 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

Smooth mode is better than sharp mode?

 

Sharp mode's upscaling introduces additional artifacting due to some whack way they scale the output image to 4k.  At least that's how it was in the previous patch.

 

I was fine with the smooth mode in the demo, and now that its back, I'm playing at 60fps.

[TwinIon]

Has anyone here beaten this? I'm curious if it's worthwhile to spend any time grinding materia or levels before the end?

[legend]

4 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

Has anyone here beaten this? I'm curious if it's worthwhile to spend any time grinding materia or levels before the end?

 

@Xbob42 and @BloodyHell have. I'll finish this weekend.

[Xbob42]

I didn't grind anything, but I also did all the side content, so it depends on what you've done. The optional boss fights are significantly harder than anything in the main story, as per usual.

[MarSolo]

Just made it to Costa Del Sol. 
 

Perfect area for the shit weather today.

[best3444]

1 minute ago, MarSolo said:

Just made it to Costa Del Sol. 
 

Perfect area for the shit weather today.

 

Great tropical music, too. 

[legend]

I finished it tonight. Damn good shit. Bring on part 3.

 

 

But I did have one giant moment of rage. The first bug/lock up I experienced was quite deep into the final string of boss fights and I had to start it completely over.

[Spork3245]

Cosmo Canyon spoilers:

 

Spoiler

I play with Japanese dialogue because, IMO, the English voice acting ranges from just acceptable to absolutely god awful (unlike FF16 which was phenomenal in English; and I’m not talking about the actors/voices, I’m talking about line delivery sounding forced and poor in both FF7 remakes… but anyway!), so I’m unsure if the change happens in English too or if it’s as drastic but... Red XIII’s voice change was unexpected AF and I absolutely hate his new voice.  

 

[Keyser_Soze]

13 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

Cosmo Canyon spoilers:

 

  Hide contents

so I’m unsure if the change happens in English too or if it’s as drastic but... Red XIII’s voice change was unexpected AF and I absolutely hate his new voice.  

 

 

In English VO

 

Spoiler

His fake voice (before you get to Cosmo Canyon) sounds like a gruff old guy. When the voice changes he sounds like a young kid. Same voice actor too BTW. Very impressive, you should play with English.

 

[Spork3245]

1 hour ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

In English VO

 

  Hide contents

His fake voice (before you get to Cosmo Canyon) sounds like a gruff old guy. When the voice changes he sounds like a young kid. Same voice actor too BTW. Very impressive, you should play with English.

 

 

Spoiler

It’s the same change in Japanese. And no, because the English line delivery from half of the VAs is as if they’re reading it off a piece of paper for the first time.  

 

[MarSolo]

Loving all the minigames in Costa Del Sol.

 

The Queen's Blood challenges were fun too. I love rolling around the scooter too.

[BloodyHell]

On 3/22/2024 at 4:35 PM, TwinIon said:

Has anyone here beaten this? I'm curious if it's worthwhile to spend any time grinding materia or levels before the end?

I didn’t need to grind, but I did absolutely everything, so I had multiple materia of almost every kind maxed. Every character hasd a maxed cure, at least lvl 3 hp up, etc.

 

Enemy skillxHP absorb using Static Discharge is incredible.