General Gaming Final Fantasy VII Rebirth (Remake Part 2) - "An Excellent But Inconsistent Experience" (Digital Foundry Technical Review)

[MarSolo]

12 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Man, I lapped the fuck out of you somehow (deep into Ch. 10).

 

Crunches are a bit harder in this one than FF7 Integrade, which seems to be the overall feeling. I didn't find it to be impossible -- a few tries and then I got it -- but I think the added 'Hold L2/R2 halfway and then press completely' can be tricky to do since it's tempting to just press the button the whole way. Concentrate on the green/yellow color difference, if I remember correctly, and it should make things easier to be ready to tap or hold halfway.

 

 

Took me a few tries to do that one.

Haha, I’m REALLY slow sometimes with games, just taking it in and such.

 

And with the crunches, I’ve got the press and tap prompts down, it’s just that against Jules, you CAN’T make a mistake otherwise he’ll be ahead of you by ten and you can’t catch up. And it’s never the prompts where I screw up, it will just be a basic button press where I slip up.

 

EDIT: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I JUST BEAT IT. 56-51!

[Spork3245]

Sounds stupid AF, but say the movements/buttons out loud for the crunch challenges. It helps for some reason.  

[SaysWho?]

oh shit I just thought of something

 

Most of us know about THAT scene in the original, and we know that scene's in Rebirth. I've NO idea how the scene plays out, but I thought wouldn't it be cool if, in Rebirth,

Spoiler

Aerith prays for the planet and Sephiroth's like "I'll be the judge of how the planet's affected by prayers " 

 

[Spork3245]

2 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

oh shit I just thought of something

 

Most of us know about THAT scene in the original, and we know that scene's in Rebirth. I've NO idea how the scene plays out, but I thought wouldn't it be cool if, in Rebirth,

  Hide contents

Aerith prays for the planet and Sephiroth's like "I'll be the judge of how the planet's affected by prayers " 

 

 @Keyser_Sozewill be the judge of if that would be cool in Rebirth 

[Keyser_Soze]

13 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

oh shit I just thought of something

 

Most of us know about THAT scene in the original, and we know that scene's in Rebirth. I've NO idea how the scene plays out, but I thought wouldn't it be cool if, in Rebirth,

  Hide contents

Aerith prays for the planet and Sephiroth's like "I'll be the judge of how the planet's affected by prayers " 

 

 

🤐

[BloodyHell]

On 4/3/2024 at 8:23 PM, MarSolo said:

Haha, I’m REALLY slow sometimes with games, just taking it in and such.

 

And with the crunches, I’ve got the press and tap prompts down, it’s just that against Jules, you CAN’T make a mistake otherwise he’ll be ahead of you by ten and you can’t catch up. And it’s never the prompts where I screw up, it will just be a basic button press where I slip up.

 

EDIT: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I JUST BEAT IT. 56-51!

Oh yeah, I’ll never beat him. It’s one thing I haven’t even tried to complete as I clean up my save file.

[BloodyHell]

On 4/4/2024 at 7:26 AM, SaysWho? said:

oh shit I just thought of something

 

Most of us know about THAT scene in the original, and we know that scene's in Rebirth. I've NO idea how the scene plays out, but I thought wouldn't it be cool if, in Rebirth,

  Hide contents

Aerith prays for the planet and Sephiroth's like "I'll be the judge of how the planet's affected by prayers " 

 

Ill be interested in hearing your thoughts.

[SaysWho?]

2 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

Ill be interested in hearing your thoughts.

i hope you’re patient  

 

It’s just going to take me a while. Not that I mind!

[SaysWho?]

Cleaning up a few things in Gongaga/Corel that I missed and then I'm heading toward Nibelheim.

[legend]

3 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

Cleaning up a few things in Gongaga/Corel that I missed and then I'm heading toward Nibelheim.

 

I hope you like breaking boxes!

[legend]

Tonight I took another crack a the mindflayer combat simulator now that I knew I had to kill the flayer first.

 

That was indeed a fucker. I was doing okay managing my teammates to keep them from fighting the scrubs but I'm pretty sure the mind flayer's AoE attacks would kill them or something because their health would go from nearly full to "where the fuck did they go"  

 

Finally got him using the sleep strategy on the scrubs to keep them away and going all out to build synergy attacks as fast as possible and unloading tifa to kill him in the first stagger.

[crispy4000]

Chapter 10, and the mini-games are definitely getting harder to get high rankings.

 

I’m also glad to see the game noted a problem with Zach and Biggs, to keep spoilers to a minimum.

[MarSolo]

I’m about to go to the Gold Saucer!

 

Also, I suck at playing the piano. It’s hard for me to keep track of both circles.

[Spork3245]

Just finished it

[legend]

28 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

I’m about to go to the Gold Saucer!

 

Also, I suck at playing the piano. It’s hard for me to keep track of both circles.

 

I have As on all but one (technically 2, since getting all As on the first set unlocks another track). Some of the piano tracks are pretty hard. The worst part for me is that because they play more notes than you control, it can make it hard for me to judge which notes I'm actually supposed to be landing  

 

That said, something that was helpful for me was to pay closer attention to the highlighted wedge, since that is the one you have to hit next. You would think that's obvious but I had to make a very active choice to put my attention there to get myself to do it well. Otherwise I was too easily distract by everything else going on.

[best3444]

8 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

Just finished it

 

Impressions, Impressions!

 

Yea, playing the piano wouldn't be so bad if it were just one circle to focus on. I really love Tifa's song. 

[Spork3245]

36 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

Impressions, Impressions!

 

Yea, playing the piano wouldn't be so bad if it were just one circle to focus on. I really love Tifa's song. 

I’m still absorbing the ending tbh

It had… uhh… a lot

[Spork3245]

For those who beat the game:

Spoiler

Apparently there are FOUR versions of reality (worlds) in the game, and you can follow which one you’re in/viewing via Stamp (the dog mascot) as each reality/world has a slightly different version of the mascot. Initially there are two (that are shown, at least), but Zack’s decision to save Biggs or go to Hojo to try and save Cloud creates another (one where Zack goes to Shinra HQ, one where Zack goes to the reactor to stop/save Biggs; in the tunnel there’s a version of Stamp on the wall, then after the Shinra scene, and it shows Zack with Biggs, there’s a new version of Stamp on the bag of chips), and another is created (or, possibly just shown) when Cloud is sent into his unconscious body and meets an alternative version of Aerith (nope, it’s not the Aerith that’s been in your party, this one can still see the future/events of alt-realities/worlds as “your” Aerith had that ability taken away by the Whispers at the end of Remake). That Aerith gives you her white materia to give to “your” Aerith to give her back her knowledge of the connected realities/worlds, and, presumably, its why she’s still “there” at the end as a ghost as “your” Aerith has reunited her consciousness with her other versions that may or may not still be alive somewhere (as Sephiroth is hunting them).

Also, there may have been ANOTHER reality/world created at the Ancient Capital when Cloud deflects Sephiroth’s blade from plunging into Aerith as the rainbow light swirl thing appears as Cloud is pushing Sephiroth back, but, after Sephiroth lands with his blade in the ground, it seems that Sephiroth somehow “blinks” himself and Cloud to a reality/world where his sword is through Aerith like in the original. So that “ghost” of Aerith may be the “split” version that Cloud saved.

 

Confused yet? Getting convoluted? Welcome to a game by the Kingdom Hearts guy!  

 

[Keyser_Soze]

29 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

For those who beat the game:

  Hide contents

Apparently there are FOUR versions of reality (worlds) in the game, and you can follow which one you’re in/viewing via Stamp (the dog mascot) as each reality/world has a slightly different version of the mascot. Initially there are two (that are shown, at least), but Zack’s decision to save Biggs or go to Hojo to try and save Cloud creates another (one where Zack goes to Shinra HQ, one where Zack goes to the reactor to stop/save Biggs; in the tunnel there’s a version of Stamp on the wall, then after the Shinra scene, and it shows Zack with Biggs, there’s a new version of Stamp on the bag of chips), and another is created (or, possibly just shown) when Cloud is sent into his unconscious body and meets an alternative version of Aerith (nope, it’s not the Aerith that’s been in your party, this one can still see the future/events of alt-realities/worlds as “your” Aerith had that ability taken away by the Whispers at the end of Remake). That Aerith gives you her white materia to give to “your” Aerith to give her back her knowledge of the connected realities/worlds, and, presumably, its why she’s still “there” at the end as a ghost as “your” Aerith has reunited her consciousness with her other versions that may or may not still be alive somewhere (as Sephiroth is hunting them).

Also, there may have been ANOTHER reality/world created at the Ancient Capital when Cloud deflects Sephiroth’s blade from plunging into Aerith as the rainbow light swirl thing appears as Cloud is pushing Sephiroth back, but, after Sephiroth lands with his blade in the ground, it seems that Sephiroth somehow “blinks” himself and Cloud to a reality/world where his sword is through Aerith like in the original. So that “ghost” of Aerith may be the “split” version that Cloud saved.

 

Confused yet? Getting convoluted? Welcome to a game by the Kingdom Hearts guy!  

 

 

I think there are a lot of interpretations to the end of what you were saying

 

Spoiler

I don't think Sephiroth "blinks" but rather merges the two worlds one where cloud stops Aerith dying and the one where she does die, along with any other reality essentially making her die in every reality.

 

[Spork3245]

12 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

I think there are a lot of interpretations to the end of what you were saying

 

  Hide contents

I don't think Sephiroth "blinks" but rather merges the two worlds one where cloud stops Aerith dying and the one where she does die, along with any other reality essentially making her die in every reality.

 

Spoiler

I don’t think he has the power to merge worlds/realities yet, only move between them. His ultimate goal seems to be to absorb the mako of the promised land from multiple realities to become a god, then use that power to reunite all worlds/realities and destroy it.

Edit: 

Spoiler

You also need to keep in mind that, like in the original, this likely still isn’t actually Sephiroth, at least not his body: it’s Sephiroth emerging from/controlling Jenova cells, whether cells in degraded Soldiers or pieces of Jenova he’s pushed them to find. So, the Sephiroth we’re fighting is not the “full power” Sephiroth.

 

[Keyser_Soze]

So Audrey has gotten her hands on the FF7 Rebirth Ultimania and has been doing a long series of posts and translating it. A lot of huge end game spoilers here, just a couple of bits:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

[SaysWho?]

Ch 12 at 86 hours 😳

[ThreePi]

Just finished at a bit under 100 hours. 

 

I put OG FFVII in my top 5 of all time. While the game has its moments, it's also got a lot of stuff that is just a tremendous waste of time and useless padding. I wish they just understood subtlety and didn't have to constantly turn everything up to 10 all the time. It's exhausting. 

 

At least Yuffie is great. Single best part of the game. Every scene that she is in is a joy. 

[legend]

1 hour ago, ThreePi said:

I wish they just understood subtlety and didn't have to constantly turn everything up to 10 all the time

 

Followed by

 

1 hour ago, ThreePi said:

At least Yuffie is great.

 

 

[ThreePi]

26 minutes ago, legend said:

 

Followed by

 

 

 

 

I meant subtlety in the grand story. One thing that made Sephiroth such an iconic villain was because of how little you saw of him. The first time you even see what he looks like in the original game is in the Nibleheim flashback. Now, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting him in the face. Cloud sits down for a cup of coffee and a black feather falls down and Sephiroth pops out and is all like "Cloud, that coffee is very black. You know what else is black? Materia. Get me the black materia." Everything is an escalation over the original, everything is dialed up to 10. It's just an exhausting game.

[crispy4000]

Remake was worse about padding IMO.  Partly because the open world makes most of Rebirth optional.  And there’s much less shuffling around in tight spaces to hide loading screens.

 

It does expand on the original a lot, but it feels more like an expansion than filler much of the time.

[ThreePi]

21 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

Remake was worse about padding IMO.  Partly because the open world makes most of Rebirth optional.  And there’s much less shuffling around in tight spaces to hide loading screens.

 

It does expand on the original a lot, but it feels more like an expansion than filler much of the time.

 

Yeah, but there's also a lot more "slowly walk down a hallway so people can give you an unnecessary long exposition." You could cut 75% of Chadley's lines and not lose a thing in the game. 

 

It's a game that doesn't respect the player's time. There's a trend among older gamers who want shorter games because they don't have time in between work and family and blah blah blah. I'm not that kind of person, I've done two 80+ hour playthroughs of Cyberpunk. But none of the side stuff in Rebirth really has value. What was even the reward for finishing all the Queen's Blood matches? It never felt like any of the side stuff led to anything worthwhile other than checking off a box on a list. Until the Protorelic stuff at the end, but by then I was so burnt out and just wanted to mash Square through the combat anyhow. 

[legend]

3 hours ago, ThreePi said:

 

I meant subtlety in the grand story. One thing that made Sephiroth such an iconic villain was because of how little you saw of him. The first time you even see what he looks like in the original game is in the Nibleheim flashback. Now, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting him in the face. Cloud sits down for a cup of coffee and a black feather falls down and Sephiroth pops out and is all like "Cloud, that coffee is very black. You know what else is black? Materia. Get me the black materia." Everything is an escalation over the original, everything is dialed up to 10. It's just an exhausting game.

 

Counterpoint

 

[crispy4000]

18 hours ago, ThreePi said:

 

Yeah, but there's also a lot more "slowly walk down a hallway so people can give you an unnecessary long exposition." You could cut 75% of Chadley's lines and not lose a thing in the game. 

 

It's a game that doesn't respect the player's time. There's a trend among older gamers who want shorter games because they don't have time in between work and family and blah blah blah. I'm not that kind of person, I've done two 80+ hour playthroughs of Cyberpunk. But none of the side stuff in Rebirth really has value. What was even the reward for finishing all the Queen's Blood matches? It never felt like any of the side stuff led to anything worthwhile other than checking off a box on a list. Until the Protorelic stuff at the end, but by then I was so burnt out and just wanted to mash Square through the combat anyhow. 

I feel the opposite.  If it didn’t respect your time, there would be a ton more enemies around the open world.  The tasks you find there, outside of mini-games, would take much longer.  They wouldn’t give you Chocobos so soon in each zone.  They would have kept the same convoluted weapon skill tree timesink from Remake.  By open world standards, or even RPGs in general, I find it’s pretty breezy feeling on the whole, even for its length.

 

There is some slow walk and talk moments, but not so much that it bothered me.  It’s odd that they let you run faster when you’re going away from those scenes, but I actually think it works out better that way.  You’re funneled, but not to the point where you feel like it’s punishment to step away for a moment.

 

I’m not at the end yet, made it back to Nibelheim.  But at this point, I’ve got zero complaints about Queens Blood or any other box checking activity.  It’s all either painless or fun enough in it’s own accord.  Even the item crafting stuff is really marginal, which is probably for the better.

Maybe it’s not a flawless model of how to handle progression in these types of games (Xenoblade Future Redeemed takes that cake, IMO).  But compared to say, ToTK, it’s much less daunting feeling, and that’s refreshing.

[SaysWho?]

15 hours ago, ThreePi said:

 

Yeah, but there's also a lot more "slowly walk down a hallway so people can give you an unnecessary long exposition." You could cut 75% of Chadley's lines and not lose a thing in the game. 

 

It's a game that doesn't respect the player's time. There's a trend among older gamers who want shorter games because they don't have time in between work and family and blah blah blah. I'm not that kind of person, I've done two 80+ hour playthroughs of Cyberpunk. But none of the side stuff in Rebirth really has value. What was even the reward for finishing all the Queen's Blood matches? It never felt like any of the side stuff led to anything worthwhile other than checking off a box on a list. Until the Protorelic stuff at the end, but by then I was so burnt out and just wanted to mash Square through the combat anyhow. 

 

I disagree with a lot of this but I appreciate your perspective considering how highly you view OG FF7.

 

I also feel the opposite as crispy does. First, I loved playing Queen's Blood; anytime that opened up, that's what I started with. I'm also nearly 90 hours into the game on Ch. 12 and I've not bored of the side activities; the only problem I had was losing two hours of progress chocobo racing because of a power outage.  But I actually enjoy racing and feel the chocobos handle very well, making it less frustrating to try to win. Plus, 3D Brawler was actually possible to win.

 

I also went to the divine temples to get summons, which were useful, especially Phoenix. Transmuter chips were a godsend. Cache locations don't give you a ton, but they're fun to find and they're easy to skip if you want. Plus, you have plenty of side quest opportunities to get more skill points and items, or combat arenas to get useful armors. Hell, the

Spoiler

Chocobo Sage

stuff gives you an APx3 armor, which is sweet.

[crispy4000]

2 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

Cache locations don't give you a ton, but they're fun to find and they're easy to skip if you want.

 

This is also one of the smart things it does.  You don't have to scour every nook and cranny of the world for loot.  Just find the 2 or 3 chests in the area the game flags as you walk into it, and you'll be good.  There might also be breakable crates with moogle medals, but those also tend to be restricted to cache locations and the towers.  And by not showing you cache locations with the towers, you still feel like you discovered something all on your own.

 

I don't like the mechanic of finding items randomly on chocobos though.  Could have done without it, but its neat that wildlife ends up being a marker.

[SaysWho?]

5 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

This is also one of the smart things it does.  You don't have to scour every nook and cranny of the world for loot.  Just find the 2 or 3 chests in the area the game flags as you walk into it, and you'll be good.  There might also be breakable crates with moogle medals, but those also tend to be restricted to cache locations and the towers.  And by not showing you cache locations with the towers, you still feel like you discovered something all on your own.

 

I don't like the mechanic of finding items randomly on chocobos though.  Could have done without them, but its neat that wildlife ends up being a marker.

Ah yes, the moogle medals! And I remember getting some really good stuff whenever I finished those little side quest. I thought it was actually going to be more annoying later in the game, but it really wasn’t that hard, it was a fun and cute diversion, and then if you did it, you could trade for some really great items. So actually those cache locations with treasure were better than I remember because both them and the towers give you plenty of medals! 

[legend]

2 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

But I actually enjoy racing and feel the chocobos handle very well, making it less frustrating to try to win.

 

I liked the chocobo racing a lot except for those fucking doors! Actually really just some of the fucking doors. A lot of the time, you have enough visibility ahead of time to judge which ones would open/close when you got there, but there were a handful where it felt like you turned a corner and basically had to guess how far along it was in a cycle and could get fucked by chance. Those can eat a dick.

 

The star fighter mini game was the best. But I have a soft spot for Starfox64, so that tracks.

[SaysWho?]

7 minutes ago, legend said:

 

I liked the chocobo racing a lot except for those fucking doors! Actually really just some of the fucking doors. A lot of the time, you have enough visibility ahead of time to judge which ones would open/close when you got there, but there were a handful where it felt like you turned a corner and basically had to guess how far along it was in a cycle and could get fucked by chance. Those can eat a dick.

 

The star fighter mini game was the best. But I have a soft spot for Starfox64, so that tracks.

 

Yeah, I find when you're going slow to race toward a closed door, which will be open by the time you get there. Quicker, you have to judge it more, but I got good at it. I was actually happy to finish all the races yesterday after two hours until a power outage wiped out all that progress.

[best3444]

So is FF16 the only FF without mini-games?