General Gaming Final Fantasy VII Rebirth (Remake Part 2) - "An Excellent But Inconsistent Experience" (Digital Foundry Technical Review)

[Xbob42]

9 hours ago, legend said:

Played through the gears and gambits main mini games. Pretty fun. But you know would make it even more fun? No arbitrary timers!  

 

The timer seemed much more forgiving in this one, but I stand by it being a shit game design! It would have been far more interesting to remove it and just keep the waves coming until someone died.

Know what cemented in my mind that Unicorn Overlord will never be for me? When I not only used the auto-gambit function for Gears and Gambits, but when you unlock the hard mode, it says "now you can't use auto-gambit" so I was just like "fuck you I'll use the same set the AI already made for me" and brute forced my way through the hard modes like that.

[Biggie]

3 hours ago, best3444 said:

 

I don't know how you do it with that many hours. You must not get any sleep. 

I prioritize sleep over gaming. My games ain’t going anywhere. But fuck feeling like shit the next day.  

[Xbob42]

24 minutes ago, Biggie said:

I prioritize sleep over gaming. My games ain’t going anywhere. But fuck feeling like shit the next day.  

Feeling like shit in the morning is what keeps me ALIVE!

[MarSolo]

I’m always impressed when people finish games quickly. At the rate I play games, I’ll be finished this in October. 
 

Shit, I’m still playing Tears of the Kingdom.

[crispy4000]

They hyped up that Queen’s Blood tournament a lot for how easy it was.

[best3444]

Well I hit a section in 16 where the story is getting bloated. 

 

Spoiler

I just killed Titan which was a easy but long fight. 

 

I'm still really enjoying this but maybe it was the story that got out of hand for me. Still a solid 9/10. 

[Biggie]

9 minutes ago, best3444 said:

Well I hit a section in 16 where the story is getting bloated. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I just killed Titan which was a easy but long fight. 

 

I'm still really enjoying this but maybe it was the story that got out of hand for me. Still a solid 9/10. 

They love to pad games to make them longer 

[best3444]

1 minute ago, Biggie said:

They love to pad games to make them longer 

 

But I'm ignoring all the padding. 

[Xbob42]

3 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

They hyped up that Queen’s Blood tournament a lot for how easy it was.

Oh don't worry, there's Queen's Blood challenges later on that will slap your dick real good.

[legend]

4 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

They hyped up that Queen’s Blood tournament a lot for how easy it was.

 

They just didn't want people to miss out on Red's entrance and relationship points  

[best3444]

Well I'm past a point in FF16 that I think I fell off of even though I beat it. The story loses its identity more than halfway through but is staying strong. This is a much better game than I commented on months back.

 

It isn't an RPG but an extremely good action game. I'm having a blast and it has kept me away from Rebirth for a while now. 

[BloodyHell]

I went Ice fishing for a week, because fishing shacks needed to be off the water by tomorrow. Started Chapter 13 just now. The game is getting tense.  

[legend]

I started chapter 12 when they open *everything* back up again. This will be a while  

[best3444]

7 minutes ago, legend said:

I started chapter 12 when they open *everything* back up again. This will be a while  

 

I'm into chapter 9 at the reactor. I'm back to this so I can wrap it up for next Friday. 

[BloodyHell]

29 minutes ago, legend said:

I started chapter 12 when they open *everything* back up again. This will be a while  

Yeah, there’s additional quests in each area as well. Some of them are fun. Some are killing more Cactaurs for points. 
 

I’ve finished every Queensblood Challenge except the very final one. 
 

completed every quest. Every piece of World Intel. Even searched the 

Spoiler

Sea.

So after I finished chapter 12 today, 13 seems like it will be a straight push to the end. I was able to stay completely spoiler free throughout, so that was good. 
 

man, I’m excited for the final game. 

[legend]

1 hour ago, best3444 said:

 

I'm into chapter 9 at the reactor. I'm back to this so I can wrap it up for next Friday. 

it’s probably a lot less time if you just do the main quests. 
 

But your final date might be lackluster  

[BloodyHell]

1 hour ago, legend said:

it’s probably a lot less time if you just do the main quests. 
 

But your final date might be lackluster  

I (date spoilers)

Spoiler

Kissed Tifa!

She’s mine, internet! Back off. 

[legend]

5 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

I (date spoilers)

  Reveal hidden contents

Kissed Tifa!

She’s mine, internet! Back off. 

 

I'm doing what I can to ensure this fate.

[MarSolo]

I’m at the Crow’s Nest getting my ass kicked by the guitar playing Queen’s Blood player. His cards have high numbers!

 

Also, the “relationship” thing with each character, I’m assuming leads to the

 

Spoiler

Gold Saucer date night from the original game?

 

My issue is I feel like I have the same relationship with every character currently because I’ve been giving the correct answers to make Cloud not seem like a shut off dick.

[best3444]

14 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

I’m at the Crow’s Nest getting my ass kicked by the guitar playing Queen’s Blood player. His cards have high numbers!

 

Also, the “relationship” thing with each character, I’m assuming leads to the

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Gold Saucer date night from the original game?

 

My issue is I feel like I have the same relationship with every character currently because I’ve been giving the correct answers to make Cloud not seem like a shut off dick.

 

I can tell you that your spoiler is incorrect. I'm past that part and drove to Zack's homeland to another chapter. Unless they drive all the way back lol. 

[Keyser_Soze]

23 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

I can tell you that your spoiler is incorrect. I'm past that part and drove to Zack's homeland to another chapter. Unless they drive all the way back lol. 

 

Spoiler spoiler (it hasn't happened yet for you in the story, it happens later)

[best3444]

34 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Spoiler spoiler (it hasn't happened yet for you in the story, it happens later)

 

Ok. I look forward to the awkwardness. 

[legend]

1 hour ago, MarSolo said:

I’m at the Crow’s Nest getting my ass kicked by the guitar playing Queen’s Blood player. His cards have high numbers!

 

Also, the “relationship” thing with each character, I’m assuming leads to the

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Gold Saucer date night from the original game?

 

My issue is I feel like I have the same relationship with every character currently because I’ve been giving the correct answers to make Cloud not seem like a shut off dick.

 

Yes, the relationship is tied to that.

 

Some notes though: first, Aerith and Tifa will just have more opportunities so they're going to be the default if you're doing everyone right. Second, there are specific non-dialog moments where you must choose someone over the other which can lead to a tie breaker. Third, an additional tie breaker is how much you use synergy skills and abilities with each character.

 

So you should be able to do everyone well and still have a preferred person.

 

I have, however, deliberately tipped the scales a couple of times  

[MarSolo]

26 minutes ago, legend said:

 

Yes, the relationship is tied to that.

 

Some notes though: first, Aerith and Tifa will just have more opportunities so they're going to be the default if you're doing everyone right. Second, there are specific non-dialog moments where you must choose someone over the other which can lead to a tie breaker. Third, an additional tie breaker is how much you use synergy skills and abilities with each character.

 

So you should be able to do everyone well and still have a preferred person.

 

I have, however, deliberately tipped the scales a couple of times  

Okay, there’s my next question: I feel like I don’t know how synergy works.

[Keyser_Soze]

39 minutes ago, legend said:

Some notes though: first, Aerith and Tifa will just have more opportunities so they're going to be the default if you're doing everyone right.

 

What if you don't want a date with either of them?

 

Spoiler

You can date

Spoiler

Red XIII

 

 

[best3444]

Chapter 9 is long. Still haven't beaten it yet. 

[legend]

1 hour ago, MarSolo said:

Okay, there’s my next question: I feel like I don’t know how synergy works.

 

You should definitely remedy that because they are a lot of fun and *very* useful!

 

So there are two kinds of synergy combat things you can do:

1. Synergy skills

2. Synergy abilities.

 

You unlock both of these through the "folio" skill trees for each character. And both skills and abilities are attacks you make with two people at a time. For example, there are skills/abilities you can do with Cloud and Tifa, and if both Cloud and Tifa are in the party, you can activate them. If one of them are not in the party, you cannot do those synergy skills/abilities. But you if you have one unlocked for another pair of characters in the party you can use them.**

 

Let's start with synergy skills because they're the easiest to understand.

Synergy skills can *always* be activated (if you have the corresponding people in your party). It does *not* require ATB to do. To pull one off, you hold the block button (R1), and when you do so, you'll see your menu will change to show you the different skills you can do with other party members, each assigned to a face button. So then all you do is press the face button and the two characters will execute that synergy skill.

 

For example, one of my favorites with Cloud and Tifa is if you choose Tifa as the PC and then do her synergy skill with Cloud, she'll leap onto Cloud's sword and Cloud with throw her through the air at an enemy. Since Tifa has limited aerial moves, this is a great way to let her attack flying enemies. 

 

Now let's talk about synergy abilities. For synergy abilities you cannot just activate them whenever like you can with skills. You have to build up the ability to do so for each character. That is, if you look at the character name in the UI, you may see these little vertical line notches that when you start combat are unfilled. You need to fill them up for both characters involved in the synergy ability to do it. To fill them up you need each character to use ATB commands. If you go through the menu when selecting an ATB command, you'll see in the bottom left corner a little text describing what the ability does as well as an indicator of how many of those vertical lines for synergy abilities it will grant you. (I believe that not all abilities will give you them, but most will). E.g., Cloud's Braver or Focused Thrust will grant you some of the synergy notches.

 

If you get usually around 4 notches for both characters you can use a synergy ability with them. This fact encourages you to not just play as one character and ignore the others. You really benefit from switching between characters to quickly build up ATB and use synergy-building ATB moves with them.

 

Once you have enough with both characters, when you open the combat menu, you'll see the menu item "Synergy Ability" is now highlighted and you can go into it and select a synergy ability you want to use. If multiple characters have enough, you can choose which pair of characters abilities you will do. And you can have multiple abilities for the same pair of characters that do different things.

 

Activating a synergy ability does *not* consume any ATB, and they are often very powerful. But not only are they powerful, there are a few different kinds that have extra special benefits. For example, one will make MP cost for both characters zero for a temporary period of time allowing them to cast the most powerful spells for no cost. Another is you should do after staggering an enemy because it will do more damage and extend the stagger time.

 

Since these are powerful and do not consume ATB, they are very useful to use and build up.

 

Hope that helps!

 

 

** Once per battle, you can actually use a synergy ability with someone outside the party, but I almost never do that.

[MarSolo]

Holy shit. That was EXTREMELY helpful. I was using the ones you do by pressing R1, but I was wondering about the abilities and how to actually activate them, which you explained way better than the game did.

 

Thank you!

[best3444]

Synergy abilities are fuckin awesome and powerful. 

[legend]

3 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

Holy shit. That was EXTREMELY helpful. I was using the ones you do by pressing R1, but I was about the abilities and how to actually activate them, which you explained way better than the game did.

 

Thank you!

 

Glad to help  

[BloodyHell]

It’s done, and frankly I loved it.

 

Tears in my eyes. 
 

still so much for the finale, but im so glad they ended the way they did. 
 

Ending Spoilers:

Spoiler

For a second I thought Cloud saved Aerith the fake lut of it was heart wrenching, but the correct decision.

 

few games have been more worth my money. 

[BloodyHell]

4 hours ago, best3444 said:

Chapter 9 is long. Still haven't beaten it yet. 

Longest by far.

[best3444]

21 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

It’s done, and frankly I loved it.

 

Tears in my eyes. 
 

still so much for the finale, but im so glad they ended the way they did. 
 

Ending Spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

For a second I thought Cloud saved Aerith the fake lut of it was heart wrenching, but the correct decision.

 

few games have been more worth my money. 

 

Wow, that's good praise. I look forward to ending my journey. 

[Xbob42]

Worth noting that synergy skills don't just not spend ATB, they rapidly build it for both characters. Use them a lot!

32 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

It’s done, and frankly I loved it.

 

Tears in my eyes. 
 

still so much for the finale, but im so glad they ended the way they did. 
 

Ending Spoilers:

  Hide contents

For a second I thought Cloud saved Aerith the fake lut of it was heart wrenching, but the correct decision.

 

few games have been more worth my money. 

Spoiler

Fake out? That wasn't a fake out. We're seeing two different worlds at once. One where Cloud deflected the blow, and one where he didn't. And something fucky is going on with Cloud, because at the end it seems like the same Cloud exists in the same way in two worlds at once, hence why he's able to see and talk to Aerith, and also sees the rift in the sky, but is in the same world as his friends who do not have the rift. We know the rift exists only in worlds that have accepted their fates, so it's possible that he might be in both World A and B (i.e. just the two worlds from Remake, not the additional ones we see introduced in Rebirth) where one just had him and Aerith (and possibly Cid/Vincent) since everyone else died, and the other has the full party.

 

It's super unclear on purpose, but it's interesting to think about. We also see Aerith using the multiple worlds to evade Sephiroth, as well as give him a functioning Holy materia from her world, while Sephiroth also uses these worlds to hunt her down. So you can easily take the end fight as some sort of lifestream Aerith helping Cloud (hence why she disappears as he return) but it could also be he's simply returning to his world and her to hers.

 

I'm hoping the finale ends with a tidal wave of Aeriths clashing with a tidal wave of Sephiroths.

Anyway, one reason I specifically think we're dealing with World A and B and not the other worlds, is because the one where he deflects the blow (and she lives) is him overcoming Sephiroth's pull all on his own. We don't actually see the perspective of the world where his friends are with him. In the original game, he overcame Sephiroth's pull and didn't kill Aerith because his friends yelled out to him, meanwhile the scene we see is dead silent aside from these two.

I feel like at some point we've got events happening mostly as they did originally (World A) despite them "overcoming fate" previously, meanwhile in World B, where the world has accepted its fate, Cloud changed it on his own. As is made weirdly clear for not being explained at all, Zack's flashbacks clearly establish that these choices outside of fate's established plan all spawn new worldlines, as we can see from the many Stamps for both Aerith/Cloud's date and the outcome of all 3 of Zack's disparate choices. It seems that at some point during the events in the city of the ancients (I assume after the Sephiroth fight and potential water burial) the Clouds in each world merge, and no one's any the wiser since Cloud's been acting like a fucking weirdo the entire game.

 

Also fun to see all the details they originally wanted to include, like all the party members except Cloud starting the Sephiroth fight with limit breaks since they're in heightened emotional states.
 

The most interesting part to me is that Aerith calls the black materia a fake, and I believe her. There's something real weird about it, but also the temple also shrinks into a small mass just like in the original and falls into the crater, making an enormous thud as it lands. I assume that's the true black materia, but since no one magically has that information like in the original game (maybe Aerith? Also probably why she returned the black materia to Cloud) then they all really think the one just sitting in there was the true black materia. The fact that no one mentions the shrinking temple or what happened to it as it fell into the crater is a huge giveaway in my opinion.

 

[BloodyHell]

6 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

Worth noting that synergy skills don't just not spend ATB, they rapidly build it for both characters. Use them a lot!

  Hide contents

Fake out? That wasn't a fake out. We're seeing two different worlds at once. One where Cloud deflected the blow, and one where he didn't. And something fucky is going on with Cloud, because at the end it seems like the same Cloud exists in the same way in two worlds at once, hence why he's able to see and talk to Aerith, and also sees the rift in the sky, but is in the same world as his friends who do not have the rift. We know the rift exists only in worlds that have accepted their fates, so it's possible that he might be in both World A and B (i.e. just the two worlds from Remake, not the additional ones we see introduced in Rebirth) where one just had him and Aerith (and possibly Cid/Vincent) since everyone else died, and the other has the full party.

 

It's super unclear on purpose, but it's interesting to think about. We also see Aerith using the multiple worlds to evade Sephiroth, as well as give him a functioning Holy materia from her world, while Sephiroth also uses these worlds to hunt her down. So you can easily take the end fight as some sort of lifestream Aerith helping Cloud (hence why she disappears as he return) but it could also be he's simply returning to his world and her to hers.

 

I'm hoping the finale ends with a tidal wave of Aeriths clashing with a tidal wave of Sephiroths.

Anyway, one reason I specifically think we're dealing with World A and B and not the other worlds, is because the one where he deflects the blow (and she lives) is him overcoming Sephiroth's pull all on his own. We don't actually see the perspective of the world where his friends are with him. In the original game, he overcame Sephiroth's pull and didn't kill Aerith because his friends yelled out to him, meanwhile the scene we see is dead silent aside from these two.

I feel like at some point we've got events happening mostly as they did originally (World A) despite them "overcoming fate" previously, meanwhile in World B, where the world has accepted its fate, Cloud changed it on his own. As is made weirdly clear for not being explained at all, Zack's flashbacks clearly establish that these choices outside of fate's established plan all spawn new worldlines, as we can see from the many Stamps for both Aerith/Cloud's date and the outcome of all 3 of Zack's disparate choices. It seems that at some point during the events in the city of the ancients (I assume after the Sephiroth fight and potential water burial) the Clouds in each world merge, and no one's any the wiser since Cloud's been acting like a fucking weirdo the entire game.

 

Also fun to see all the details they originally wanted to include, like all the party members except Cloud starting the Sephiroth fight with limit breaks since they're in heightened emotional states.
 

The most interesting part to me is that Aerith calls the black materia a fake, and I believe her. There's something real weird about it, but also the temple also shrinks into a small mass just like in the original and falls into the crater, making an enormous thud as it lands. I assume that's the true black materia, but since no one magically has that information like in the original game (maybe Aerith? Also probably why she returned the black materia to Cloud) then they all really think the one just sitting in there was the true black materia. The fact that no one mentions the shrinking temple or what happened to it as it fell into the crater is a huge giveaway in my opinion.

 

I’ll have to watch it all again. I don’t necessarily agree with all of your points, but I only saw it once in an admittedly slightly emotional state.