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Playstation under fire today for lack of Indie Dev Support

JPDunks4

By JPDunks4
in The Spawn Point

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JPDunks4

JPDunks4

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This Tweet started it all and it's slowly started an avalanche of others coming out and echoing his sentiments.  The most baffling thing I think is the fact you don't have the ability to discount your own game, you need to be invited and wait for them to give you permission.  That decision seems pretty baffling.

 

 

Which has lead to a few articles popping up.  Now I believe Microsoft, and even probably Nintendo charge similar fee's for store visibility, it's called Advertising.  You typically need to pay for that.  I haven't read the articles myself yet, just seen people discussing them.

 

https%3A%2F%2Fspecials-images.forbesimg.

Dev Details Sony’s Frustrating Rules For Discounts And Promotion On PlayStation

WWW.FORBES.COM
A developer is taking Sony to task for how hard it is to promote or price games on PS4 or PS5.
ps5-users-can-now-sign-up-to-test-new-fe

PS5 Game Discount and Promotion Policies Hurt Indie Developers

IN.IGN.COM
Sony is stuck in the stone age it seems.

 

 

 

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XxEvil AshxX

XxEvil AshxX

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Every time Sony has a big seasonal sale i take a look. I'm not a big indie person so i'm always looking for a good price. I never see them. It's always the AAA publishers.

 

Nintendo, ironically, is the console to go to for those discounts, and ID@Xbox always has stuff on gamepass and on sale if i'm looking for Xbox games.

 

Sony is just... Ehhh...

 

 

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Remarkableriots

Remarkableriots

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4 hours ago, XxEvil AshxX said:

Every time Sony has a big seasonal sale i take a look. I'm not a big indie person so i'm always looking for a good price. I never see them. It's always the AAA publishers.

 

Nintendo, ironically, is the console to go to for those discounts, and ID@Xbox always has stuff on gamepass and on sale if i'm looking for Xbox games.

 

Sony is just... Ehhh...

 

 

51222161161_8dc6188aed_o-scaled.jpg

PlayStation Indies promotion returns to PlayStation Store

BLOG.PLAYSTATION.COM
Discover something different with a huge selection of fascinating titles now discounted for a limited time.

Sony just had a huge indie discount at the beginning of this month.

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JPDunks4

JPDunks4

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I've grown to actually prefer indies in the last few years.

 

Hades was my 2020 GotY

 

Valheim so far is my 2021 GotY

 

I do think Indie Devs, thanks to social media, have most of the tools they should need to be able to get some hype and word of mouth out about their title.  I try to think about how I've heard about some of the indies I've liked.

 

Hades was actually mentioned to me by another poster on this forum.  I had seen previews for it and it was in Early Access I think, but the art style never drew me in, and it looked like a lot of other indies, so I never bothered.  After the recommendation, I tried, it and was hooked.  I still need to get back to that and put more time in.

 

Valheim I saw 2 people I followed on Twitter tweet about it, so I checked it out on Steam and bought it, and then bought a few copies for friends to play with I enjoyed it that much.  I put 100+ hours into that game, and can't wait for more content.  But I learned about that through word of mouth.  That game ended up selling 6 million copies in Steam thanks to word of mouth, steamers, and then the advertising they put behind it once they hit some success.  I see ads for it daily on Twitter still.  

 

So while Sony may need to improve it's tools and how it handles relationship with indie devs, I'm not sure I totally buy all the shade that's getting thrown there way.

 

I did just think about the Indie Dev Showcase that Microsoft held this year.  I think it was like 3 hours long, and featured a lot of games, and allowed the devs to be interviewed for like 10+ minutes each.  It wasn't an exciting show to watch, and many complained about the format, but I thought it was awesome, because putting yourself in the shoes of those devs, it must feel pretty great to get that kind of exposure from a company like Microsoft, that allows you to share your passion with everyone else.

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johnny

johnny

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i also think switch has just straight up taken a lot of indie sales from every other place. most indies aren’t graphically demanding and the handheld aspect is huge. so lower sales on playstation and sony being more difficult than it needs to is probably why he’s so mad. 

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Commissar SFLUFAN

Commissar SFLUFAN

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For those wondering, Valve doesn't charge for advertising on Steam.  Product exposure is algorithmically-derived on data from Wishlists, etc. as well as banner promotions for major updates or big launches.

 

Now, many indie developers and Valve itself acknowledge that there is a significant discoverability problem on Steam.  As a result, Valve provides developers with a guide on how to market/increase visibility of their games:

 

 

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JPDunks4

JPDunks4

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4 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

For those wondering, Valve doesn't charge for advertising on Steam.  Product exposure is algorithmically-derived on data from Wishlists, etc. as well as banner promotions for major updates or big launches.

 

Now, many indie developers and Valve itself acknowledge that there is a significant discoverability problem on Steam.  As a result, Valve provides developers with a guide on how to market/increase visibility of their games:

 

 

 

I think I saw Wishlists being mentioned as well as lacking, but I don't think Microsoft has it either.  I had never realized that helps get them exposure on Steam, good to know.  I always kinda wondered what it was there for.  Would always think to myself, "Do these people just expect people to gift this game to them".

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Keyser_Soze

Keyser_Soze

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1 hour ago, JPDunks4 said:

 

I think I saw Wishlists being mentioned as well as lacking, but I don't think Microsoft has it either.  I had never realized that helps get them exposure on Steam, good to know.  I always kinda wondered what it was there for.  Would always think to myself, "Do these people just expect people to gift this game to them".

 

1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

I use the Steam Wishlist to keep track of games that I'm interested in.  Also, I receive an alert when a game on my Wishlist goes on sale.

 

A big theme I saw during E3, at least at the PC gaming show was at the end of the trailers on every game it said, "Be sure to add to your steam wishlist" So they're really pushing to get their game on that algorithm.

 

Also I too wishlist a game in order to remember the game. I did this on Playstation as well before they wiped the lists and brought them back. Fun!

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JPDunks4

JPDunks4

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1 minute ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

 

A big theme I saw during E3, at least at the PC gaming show was at the end of the trailers on every game it said, "Be sure to add to your steam wishlist" So they're really pushing to get their game on that algorithm.

 

Also I too wishlist a game in order to remember the game. I did this on Playstation as well before they wiped the lists and brought them back. Fun!

 

So does Playstation have a wishlist too?  Does it just not do anything to help get a game additional promotional help?

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Keyser_Soze

Keyser_Soze

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3 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

So does Playstation have a wishlist too?  Does it just not do anything to help get a game additional promotional help?

 

When PS5 came out they killed the wishlists. But then they brought them back. I have no idea if it does anything for the developer. The PS5 store is kinda bad and I don't think it does anything dynamic like steam does.

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Bloodporne

Bloodporne

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The store on PS5 is fucking dreadful. I don't know if I keep missing it but I'd really like a dedicated Indie section with thorough search options etc. 

 

I don't think I've ever stumbled across a cool looking game I end up buying, like I've done on Steam. It's either find out about it here and then use the search option specifically, or I'd never know about most of the Indie titles I've been way into. 

 

 

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SaysWho?

SaysWho?

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The more I read about this, the more it seems like the team behind PSN and coordinating everything there is a bureaucratic nightmare. I can understand how you don't want people cluttering the sales page every time they want their game on sale, but Steam has been able to figure it out. My guess is that the PSN team works independently from the first party team, marketing team, etc., as you'd expect, and whatever they're doing there is light years behind the other areas.

 

Between that and figuring out a way, no matter how difficult, for people to download those PS1 classics onto their PS5, and also PSP/Vita games, would be good for business considering how many people would want to buy old shit if they could play it on their current system. I can't imagine how crazy awesome that kind of library would be.

 

Glad devs are speaking out about it as this is the only way to get it to change. I think Boyes in the early PS4 games had many great relationships with indie devs, which is why so many of them started on PS4 before going to other systems. 

 

8 hours ago, Joe said:


Eh, Journey was an amazing game.

 

If you don't have a Playstation (Keyser doesn't and once lied that he did to win a debate with me, which I'll never let him forget even though I love the fuck out of the guy :p), you really don't understand Sony's publishing pipeline. Some think third-person + trees = Sony games are the same. How many of them bought Dreams? Or Concrete Genie? How many supported Flower and Unfinished Swan? Or Helldivers? How many are buying Sackboy? Played Ratchet before Rift Apart? Who supported the Medievil remake? How many purchased PSVR, where indies are prevalent and get a lot of push? How many dismissed PS Plus's indie offerings early in the PS4 when most of the free games were indie?

 

People finally are giving Housemarque a chance after Returnal (which feels a bit more AA than AAA? Strictly talking budget, not quality), but I've been shouting from the rooftops the need to play Resogun/Alienation to crickets and hand-waving. *shrugs* 

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ARZ

ARZ

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14 hours ago, JPDunks4 said:

 

I think I saw Wishlists being mentioned as well as lacking, but I don't think Microsoft has it either.  I had never realized that helps get them exposure on Steam, good to know.  I always kinda wondered what it was there for.  Would always think to myself, "Do these people just expect people to gift this game to them".

 

Pretty sure MS has had wishlists since they did the marketplace revamp earlier this year or late last year, can't remember.

Though after I add something I typically forget about it

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Commissar SFLUFAN

Commissar SFLUFAN

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13 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:


No more discussion needed!

 

The entire "if you don't like their business practices, don't [fill in the blank]" argument reminds me of something I read in a Harvard Business School case study many years ago that discussed the relationship between Wal-Mart and its vendors in regard to Wal-Mart's ability to squeeze the vendor margins to the bare minimum through its sheer market/pricing power.  One anonymous vendor made this statement:

 

"The worst thing you can do in my business is to not be a vendor to Wal-Mart.  The second worst thing you can do in my business is to be a vendor to Wal-Mart."

 

In this instance, substitute "Sony" for "Wal-Mart" and the analogy still holds.

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Guest

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I mean, it isn’t as though there is no promotion of titles on the PlayStation store. The only thing that I don’t understand is limiting when a title can be put on sale.

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BloodyHell

BloodyHell

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12 hours ago, Paperclyp said:

I WONDER WHY THAT IS

Because those games don't make them money, I would imagine. They have a history of supporting indie games, and im guessing that it didn't make them much money. Anecdotally, most gamers I know personally just don't buy indie games generally. Sometimes there is a huge hit, like Hades, but the vast majority of gamers never look at them otherwise. I love indies, and sure, on a forum like this a lot of people might play them, but we aren't the norm. 90% ignore anything that isn't part of the current zeitgeist.

It has to be sales thing, its the only reason I can see them abandoning what was strong indie support in the ps3/early ps4 era.

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