Jason Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 The U.S. Air Force Just Admitted The F-35 Stealth Fighter Has Failed WWW.FORBES.COM The U.S. Air Force’s chief of staff wants the service to develop an affordable, lightweight fighter to replace hundreds of aging F-16s and complement a small fleet of sophisticated F-35 stealth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 The real goal of the F-35 mission was to enrich Lockheed Martin, and the mission succeeded. Now, LM will be able to bid on the replacement of their own failed fighter and make even more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Vic20 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Maybe we can find the money in the space program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaku3 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said: The real goal of the F-35 mission was to enrich Lockheed Martin, and the mission succeeded. Now, LM will be able to bid on the replacement of their own failed fighter and make even more money. Is it too late for D1P to become a defense contractor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Vic20 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 19 minutes ago, Zaku3 said: Is it too late for D1P to become a defense contractor? Wade's an accountant for the gov, I'm a project manager, and I know a ton of GSA engineers! Now all we need is a pitch man with a military background! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Mr.Vic20 said: Maybe we can find the money in the space program. dont kid yourself. We’re going to spend more on this new fighter just getting to the prototype phase than a decade of the space program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 31 minutes ago, Zaku3 said: Is it too late for D1P to become a defense contractor? I am a defense contractor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: I am a defense contractor. I'm a defense contractor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 First the Littoral Combat Ship, now F-35.... DoD is finally exorcising the ghosts of Rumsfeld. Bring on the Digital Century series fighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jwheel86 said: Bring on the Digital Century series fighter Read this as "digital currency series" and nearly lost it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 No it hasn't. That article fucking sucks. Let's listen to someone who covers the F-35 for a real defense news outlet, and knows more than Forbes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 OF COURSE it was written by David Axe. So I know David Axe from his time at some older publications, as well as the National Interest. NI was one of the purveyors of some of the absolute worst trash "reporting" about defense news. Dude's a hack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Whether or not this thing is a failure just remember the government can unanimously agree to throw billions after billions into it, but can't be bothered to give you 2 grand during a national pandemic that is now almost a year old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 If you are buying a truck it makes sense to get something that's good at a bunch of things. Maybe you compromise on bed size to have a bigger cab, or maybe you get a smaller engine to save on gas. But for military projects, it seems to me you'd want to hyper-specialize what you have in order to have the absolute best for whatever situation you need. I know in theory that costs more since you duplicate equipment to some extent...but as we've seen, trying to make a "pretty good at many things" fighter/bomber just isn't a good idea. Also I saw a video recently where they had A-10s going up against either F-16s or F-18s in dogfights (in the actual air), and the A-10 got the kill shot all of the time. What, is that real? I guess it's stipulated on having already closed the distance? The actual fighters' only real tactic was to come in really fast, hope for a shot, and then scream away. If they didn't manage to get away before the A-10 turned, they were "dead" each time since the A-10 is so maneuverable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 45 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: If you are buying a truck it makes sense to get something that's good at a bunch of things. Maybe you compromise on bed size to have a bigger cab, or maybe you get a smaller engine to save on gas. But for military projects, it seems to me you'd want to hyper-specialize what you have in order to have the absolute best for whatever situation you need. I know in theory that costs more since you duplicate equipment to some extent...but as we've seen, trying to make a "pretty good at many things" fighter/bomber just isn't a good idea. Also I saw a video recently where they had A-10s going up against either F-16s or F-18s in dogfights (in the actual air), and the A-10 got the kill shot all of the time. What, is that real? I guess it's stipulated on having already closed the distance? The actual fighters' only real tactic was to come in really fast, hope for a shot, and then scream away. If they didn't manage to get away before the A-10 turned, they were "dead" each time since the A-10 is so maneuverable. the thing about the military is they want something that has $10b worth of tech, functionality, and reliability for $1b. They end up having to settle. The F-35’s whole purpose was to be an inexpensive platform that could cheaply be made into a variant that would suit every branch of the military. It’s like they wanted a pickup truck that haul a tractor trailer at highway speed, that is also a high performance race car, that could traverse any off-road terrain in any weather, could turn aquatic, could fly, and cost $250k. Because they didn’t want to buy half a dozen different specialized vehicles for $100k-$1m Problem they’re running into right now is they’re spending so much to get the F-35 platform working at all that even for the Air Force it’s hardly a cheaper alternative to the F-22 at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 45 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: If you are buying a truck it makes sense to get something that's good at a bunch of things. Maybe you compromise on bed size to have a bigger cab, or maybe you get a smaller engine to save on gas. But for military projects, it seems to me you'd want to hyper-specialize what you have in order to have the absolute best for whatever situation you need. I know in theory that costs more since you duplicate equipment to some extent...but as we've seen, trying to make a "pretty good at many things" fighter/bomber just isn't a good idea. Also I saw a video recently where they had A-10s going up against either F-16s or F-18s in dogfights (in the actual air), and the A-10 got the kill shot all of the time. What, is that real? I guess it's stipulated on having already closed the distance? The actual fighters' only real tactic was to come in really fast, hope for a shot, and then scream away. If they didn't manage to get away before the A-10 turned, they were "dead" each time since the A-10 is so maneuverable. If an F-16 is in a dog fight with an A-10 then the F-16 pilot forgot where the throttle is. The F-35s problem is it's a nightmare to upgrade or integrate new weapons. Lockheed proprietary'ed the shit out of everything, including the software, which makes changing anything a disaster. The contract gave Lockheed way too much control. The current 4th generation fighters (F-16s, Super Hornets) are all excellent multirole aircraft, so it is possible. Supposedly the Air Force has already flown it's 6th generation NGAD fighter (no one really knows what 6th gen means) that's open architecture and the Navy is moving on it's 6th gen Hornet replacement (both seem to be heavy fighters to get F-14/F-15 ranges and weapons capacity) . Another issue is the requirement that the Air Force treat the Air Guard as equals, meaning they get F-35s too. My guess is this new 5th/4th gen light fighter is for the Air Guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted February 25, 2021 Author Share Posted February 25, 2021 Maybe next time we should let the Navy and Marines just design their own fighter instead of insisting on making one platform do everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 22 minutes ago, Jason said: Maybe next time we should let the Navy and Marines just design their own fighter instead of insisting on making one platform do everything. Marines absolutely, that said there isn't really an reason why the Navy and Air Force can't get together and have a carrier variant and a stripped down Air Force variant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 Just now, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairslinger Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 47 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinIon Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 On 2/25/2021 at 9:45 AM, CayceG said: No it hasn't. That article fucking sucks. Let's listen to someone who covers the F-35 for a real defense news outlet, and knows more than Forbes. So, according to that reporter the F-35 was portrayed as the solution to every problem. That is obviously not the case, and we're now looking to buy new planes whose roles were to be filled by the 35. If I bought a miracle cure all that turned out to be an effective anti-histamine, I'd call that cure-all a failure. We spent a trillion dollars on a plane that was supposed to be great at everything. Just because it's not useless doesn't preclude it from being a failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Should have asked Fokker what was up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 19 minutes ago, TwinIon said: So, according to that reporter the F-35 was portrayed as the solution to every problem. That is obviously not the case, and we're now looking to buy new planes whose roles were to be filled by the 35. If I bought a miracle cure all that turned out to be an effective anti-histamine, I'd call that cure-all a failure. We spent a trillion dollars on a plane that was supposed to be great at everything. Just because it's not useless doesn't preclude it from being a failure. We're not looking to replace planes that the F-35 is replacing. That's a dumb wishlist item by some in the Air Force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 28 minutes ago, CayceG said: We're not looking to replace planes that the F-35 is replacing. That's a dumb wishlist item by some in the Air Force. Unless the Air Force can pull a rabbit out of its hat with the Digital Century Series, I give it 3 years before Lockheed gets in on Boeing's F-15EX game with a new F-16 block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 That's just more of an upgrade than replacing total platforms. Even if they are new airframes, it's generally the same platform and there aren't many new systems that maintenance and upkeep have to consider. It wouldn't be unreasonable. In fact, I think an F-15EX and F-35 mixed force would probably be the best thing for the future effectiveness and efficiency of our dumb imperial air force which I find incredibly cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 The only solution is to bring back the F-14 and somehow make it even cooler. Maybe the wings have another section on them that folds back even more. Or they split vertically, like an X-Wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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