General Gaming The Callisto Protocol - Information Thread, update: Glen Schofield (CEO), CFO, and COO all "voluntarily" depart from Striking Distance Studios

[stepee]

Didn’t need to release this one in December guys!

[Mr.Vic20]

1 minute ago, stepee said:

Didn’t need to release this one in December guys!

I guess they didn't want to follow the Dead Space Remake. I get the thinking, but not with these results! 

[stepee]

Just now, Mr.Vic20 said:

I guess they didn't want to follow the Dead Space Remake. I get the thinking, but not with these results! 

 

yeahhh maybe better to have thought of it the other way, wait for Dead Space and ride the renewed interest into a more polished spiritual successor 

[Greatoneshere]

34 minutes ago, ShreddieMercury said:

I'm bummed about how this game turned out, but at the same time, with each new release I find myself more and more weary of trusting Open Critic or Metacritic to reflect a game's overall quality.  I do really enjoy reading posts about games here, because people get pretty in depth and offer solid breakdowns of what they like or didn't like.  And I tend to think Eurogamer/DF are pretty even and eloquent.  Other than that though, woof.

 

Your whole post is on point. That's why I'm still very interested in the game, I just want the game to run well on my PC. I've played a lot of low scoring games in my life that I've loved. Nier (now Nier Replicant - the old Nier on Xbox 360) got blasted upon release. It basically hung out on gamerankings.com (at the time) at around 70, which most people would see as a score which means "ignore this game". But for my personal tastes, the game looked too interesting, too intriguing to ignore so I played it anyway and loved it. Since then the game has gotten a massive reappraisal, with a remaster to boot.

 

Now, I also played and loved Too Human (a game still considered pretty bad) because I just love the setting, tone, characters, and aspects of the levels and production design, etc. Was it a broken and jank game? Yes. So, again, I'm super interested in this game regardless, but it needs a couple patches first.

[Bacon]

2 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Your whole post is on point. That's why I'm still very interested in the game, I just want the game to run well on my PC. I've played a lot of low scoring games in my life that I've loved. Nier (now Nier Replicant - the old Nier on Xbox 360) got blasted upon release. It basically hung out on gamerankings.com (at the time) at around 70, which most people would see as a score which means "ignore this game". But for my personal tastes, the game looked too interesting, too intriguing to ignore so I played it anyway and loved it. Since then the game has gotten a massive reappraisal, with a remaster to boot.

 

Now, I also played and loved Too Human (a game still considered pretty bad) because I just love the setting, tone, characters, and aspects of the levels and production design, etc. Was it a broken and jank game? Yes. So, again, I'm super interested in this game regardless, but it needs a couple patches first.

 

To that I will say that TCP was looking to be the next dead space. Could be totally wrong here, but Too Human and Nier were like their own thing. They may not have reviewed well, but they also aren't a "poor man's whatever". Often, when a game is like another, it needs to rival it. It can't be lesser or it is seen even worse than it actually is. Why play the lesser Dead Space? Because it is new? 

 

Not saying that is how it should be of course, but at least that is how I see situations like this. 

[Bloodporne]

I couldn't care less about the metacritic and scores personally, I wait for breakdowns of gameplay and mechanics like SkillUp and others do. That's my deciding factor really. Especially after Red Dead 2 and Death Stranding scores. I'm not a player who values "experience" and production values over gameplay mechanics so places like Polygon are silly to me. 

[Keyser_Soze]

From what I've seen the problems of the game won't be solved with a patch. Just like if you didn't like the gameplay of Cyberpunk, removing the bugs won't make you like it.

 

They aren't going to alter the combat in Callisto Protocol because that is what the game is built around. Dodging and doing a melee weapon combo endlessly to a horde of enemies you can only attack one at a time.

[Greatoneshere]

17 minutes ago, Bacon said:

 

To that I will say that TCP was looking to be the next dead space. Could be totally wrong here, but Too Human and Nier were like their own thing. They may not have reviewed well, but they also aren't a "poor man's whatever". Often, when a game is like another, it needs to rival it. It can't be lesser or it is seen even worse than it actually is. Why play the lesser Dead Space? Because it is new? 

 

Not saying that is how it should be of course, but at least that is how I see situations like this. 

 

Agreed, but those were just two examples. Plus "lesser Dead Space" is probably doing this game some disservice. Again, game looks super intriguing, I like a lot about it, but seems it needs to be tightened up first. I'll play a somewhat bad game (whether that's in the area of story, or gameplay, or something else) if there's enough there to keep me personally interested. This game looks like it could be that, but it needs to run well first. 

[crispy4000]

16 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

They aren't going to alter the combat in Callisto Protocol because that is what the game is built around. Dodging and doing a melee weapon combo endlessly to a horde of enemies you can only attack one at a time.

 

There's nothing to say that you can't make a game like that fun.  But the less a game relies on exploration, the more it has to lean on the core mechanics being engaging.

 

Sounds like a target switching mechanic is sorely needed, at the least.

[BloodyHell]

31 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Agreed, but those were just two examples. Plus "lesser Dead Space" is probably doing this game some disservice. Again, game looks super intriguing, I like a lot about it, but seems it needs to be tightened up first. I'll play a somewhat bad game (whether that's in the area of story, or gameplay, or something else) if there's enough there to keep me personally interested. This game looks like it could be that, but it needs to run well first. 

Personally, I think you’re looking at it with rose colored glasses. I’ve watched some gameplay, listened to reviewers I do Trust, and it just looks bad. A horror version of ffxiii (one long hallway) except with no story to speak of, and bad melee gameplay that makes up the whole focus of the game.

 

from what I’ve seen, bugs aren’t the problem, gameplay and level design are.

[BloodyHell]

3 hours ago, Brian said:

I was right to pick Midnight Suns over this. #AlwaysRight

This is what I’m doing this weekend, I think.

[Greatoneshere]

6 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Personally, I think you’re looking at it with rose colored glasses. I’ve watched some gameplay, listened to reviewers I do Trust, and it just looks bad. A horror version of ffxiii (one long hallway) except with no story to speak of, and bad melee gameplay that makes up the whole focus of the game.

 

from what I’ve seen, bugs aren’t the problem, gameplay and level design are.

 

It certainly could be - I'm saying for me personally even if the gameplay and level design aren't great (or outright bad) other things can make up for it. There were outright bad things in plenty of games I've played - sometimes the story is the problem, other times it's the gameplay, other times it's something else. Sometimes for me the things a game does well, because I personally like those things, can overcome a good number of issues I'm willing to ignore. 

 

Is that the case here? I don't know - I have to play the game to find out, which is my point. If it continues to get absolutely blasted then I probably won't check it out, but the setting and visual design, etc. are enticing enough that if the framerate drops and framerate stutter, etc. can be resolved I'd be curious to give it a go. I played the first hour and I liked what I saw but it was unplayable at times due to those issues. The game could still be shit, in which case if I do check it out and it is, I'll say so for sure.

[BloodyHell]

6 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

It certainly could be - I'm saying for me personally even if the gameplay and level design aren't great (or outright bad) other things can make up for it. There were outright bad things in plenty of games I've played - sometimes the story is the problem, other times it's the gameplay, other times it's something else. Sometimes for me the things a game does well, because I personally like those things, can overcome a good number of issues I'm willing to ignore. 

 

Is that the case here? I don't know - I have to play the game to find out, which is my point. If it continues to get absolutely blasted then I probably won't check it out, but the setting and visual design, etc. are enticing enough that if the framerate drops and framerate stutter, etc. can be resolved I'd be curious to give it a go. I played the first hour and I liked what I saw but it was unplayable at times due to those issues. The game could still be shit, in which case if I do check it out and it is, I'll say so for sure.

Fair enough. I’ll try it when it’s 15$ or less. What I saw was terrible, and had nothing to do with bugs, whatsoever.  All of it looks bad, gameplay and level design, and the story is being roundly criticized. I don’t know what that leaves to enjoy.

[stepee]

If they fix the shader stutter I’ll grab this for $30 for the gfx! 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Reading between the lines of Digital Foundry's comments on the game's Xbox Series performance, there's really no doubt in my mind that the developers received some degree of technical assistance from Sony beyond merely the contribution of members of its Visual Arts Services Group 

[BloodyHell]

1 minute ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Reading between the lines of Digital Foundry's comments on the game's Xbox Series performance, there's really no doubt in my mind that the developers received some degree of technical assistance from Sony beyond merely the contribution of members of its Visual Arts Services Group 

Sad. I was originally going to buy it on Xbox too.

[Greatoneshere]

24 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Fair enough. I’ll try it when it’s 15$ or less. What I saw was terrible, and had nothing to do with bugs, whatsoever.  All of it looks bad, gameplay and level design, and the story is being roundly criticized. I don’t know what that leaves to enjoy.

 

That is what reviewers are saying for sure, but that's my point (and there's nothing wrong waiting until its cheap as you suggest!). Nier and Too Human (as examples) both looked bad, critics said they were bad, but I really enjoyed both games for other reasons, some intangible that reviewers wouldn't note (for instance, the music in Too Human is excellent). @Bacon mentioned Elex. I know a lot of people enjoyed Deadly Premonition despite how broken that game is. Hell, Death Stranding, a game literally made to troll audiences with a gameplay system built around the most monotonous thing to do in video games, fetch quests, and that game was hated by many and divisive at best and I loved it for its visual design and aesthetics, its story (which many didn't like), its weirdness, it's unique gameplay loop (even if I am being trolled the whole game with everything being fetch quests via a "delivery system" framework), etc.

 

None of that is to say this game is any good at all, but there's a lot in it (on the surface), many of them intangible things that get me excited specifically (sci-fi prison horror with cool visual designs and aesthetics). So I'll keep it in mind but will wait to see how things play out. Definitely not a day one now for me though. 

[SuperSpreader]

I'm feeling so much schadenfreude rn

[BloodyHell]

16 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said:

I'm feeling so much schadenfreude rn

Burn the witch!!!

[BloodyHell]

35 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

That is what reviewers are saying for sure, but that's my point (and there's nothing wrong waiting until its cheap as you suggest!). Nier and Too Human (as examples) both looked bad, critics said they were bad, but I really enjoyed both games for other reasons, some intangible that reviewers wouldn't note (for instance, the music in Too Human is excellent). @Bacon mentioned Elex. I know a lot of people enjoyed Deadly Premonition despite how broken that game is. Hell, Death Stranding, a game literally made to troll audiences with a gameplay system built around the most monotonous thing to do in video games, fetch quests, and that game was hated by many and divisive at best and I loved it for its visual design and aesthetics, its story (which many didn't like), its weirdness, it's unique gameplay loop (even if I am being trolled the whole game with everything being fetch quests via a "delivery system" framework), etc.

 

None of that is to say this game is any good at all, but there's a lot in it (on the surface), many of them intangible things that get me excited specifically (sci-fi prison horror with cool visual designs and aesthetics). So I'll keep it in mind but will wait to see how things play out. Definitely not a day one now for me though. 

I just can’t abide a game that is just a hallway. It made me despise FF13, and this looks even more restrictive in the hour of gameplay I checked out. And the melee system just behaves badly. 
 

I love Nier, and enjoyed Too Human, but nothing about this gave me any good vibes whatsoever. It’s by far my biggest disappointment this year. It just looks monotonous. 

I do hope you like it though.

[Bacon]

FF13 might suck, but it has the best battle theme

[BloodyHell]

2 minutes ago, Bacon said:

FF13 might suck, but it has the best battle theme

It has great music all around.

im actually playing Lightning Returns a little bit right now, but I’ll never play 13 again. I beat it once because it’s FF, and it’s been my jam since the 80’s. same with 15, never again. 

[Greatoneshere]

10 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

I just can’t abide a game that is just a hallway. It made me despise FF13, and this looks even more restrictive in the hour of gameplay I checked out. And the melee system just behaves badly. 
 

I love Nier, and enjoyed Too Human, but nothing about this gave me any good vibes whatsoever. It’s by far my biggest disappointment this year. It just looks monotonous. 

I do hope you like it though.

 

I mean, Dead Space has a lot of long hallways, as did Too Human (though those were more like too large, empty arenas). It's not great design philosophy but I can probably get past that aspect. If I do play it (probably not for awhile now) I'll definitely report back if I do!

[BloodyHell]

4 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I mean, Dead Space has a lot of long hallways, as did Too Human (though those were more like too large, empty arenas). It's not great design philosophy but I can probably get past that aspect. If I do play it (probably not for awhile now) I'll definitely report back if I do!

No. Dead space had a lot of hallways, but it had backtracking, finding items to open the way, etc. 
 

What I saw of this game IS a hallway. You go straight, constantly. Move ahead, kill enemies, move ahead, kill enemies, rinse, repeat.

 

I truly hate that kind of design. No branches, no exploration. Just walk straight.

 

Game is beautiful, but seems bankrupt of any real gameplay design.

[SuperSpreader]

[Biggie]

And y’all thought Pokémon was bad

[BloodyHell]

1 hour ago, Biggie said:

And y’all thought Pokémon was bad

I mean, it is. This being bad doesn’t make that better.

[Xbob42]

3 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

No. Dead space had a lot of hallways, but it had backtracking, finding items to open the way, etc. 
 

What I saw of this game IS a hallway. You go straight, constantly. Move ahead, kill enemies, move ahead, kill enemies, rinse, repeat.

 

I truly hate that kind of design. No branches, no exploration. Just walk straight.

 

Game is beautiful, but seems bankrupt of any real gameplay design.

 

Hm, see early on in the game you're exploring quite a bit in the area where you have a few robots to stealth around. There's multiple optional rooms and hidden paths. Does that just dry up later? It has been pretty damn linear since there, but there's always at least an off-branch hallway. Hasn't been backtracking since then either which is weird. Unfortunately a lot of people complained about the backtracking in Dead Space so I'm hoping they didn't take that to heart to mean it was universally bad. Backtracking helps build up familiarity and makes building that mental map more worth it. If they really got rid of it entirely that blows.

 

Also feel kind of bad for Glen, man's been under fire all morning, but at least he's not hiding and allegedly the performance issues are down to some weird error and a patch'll be up real soon if it's not already? Shit's wild, man.

 

[Biggie]

50 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

I mean, it is. This being bad doesn’t make that better.

[Xbob42]

Pokemon prepared my body and mind for this.  I can't even see the stutters, I have become the stutters.

[SuperSpreader]

1 hour ago, Xbob42 said:

 

Hm, see early on in the game you're exploring quite a bit in the area where you have a few robots to stealth around. There's multiple optional rooms and hidden paths. Does that just dry up later? It has been pretty damn linear since there, but there's always at least an off-branch hallway. Hasn't been backtracking since then either which is weird. Unfortunately a lot of people complained about the backtracking in Dead Space so I'm hoping they didn't take that to heart to mean it was universally bad. Backtracking helps build up familiarity and makes building that mental map more worth it. If they really got rid of it entirely that blows.

 

Also feel kind of bad for Glen, man's been under fire all morning, but at least he's not hiding and allegedly the performance issues are down to some weird error and a patch'll be up real soon if it's not already? Shit's wild, man.

 

[stepee]

2 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

 

Hm, see early on in the game you're exploring quite a bit in the area where you have a few robots to stealth around. There's multiple optional rooms and hidden paths. Does that just dry up later? It has been pretty damn linear since there, but there's always at least an off-branch hallway. Hasn't been backtracking since then either which is weird. Unfortunately a lot of people complained about the backtracking in Dead Space so I'm hoping they didn't take that to heart to mean it was universally bad. Backtracking helps build up familiarity and makes building that mental map more worth it. If they really got rid of it entirely that blows.

 

Also feel kind of bad for Glen, man's been under fire all morning, but at least he's not hiding and allegedly the performance issues are down to some weird error and a patch'll be up real soon if it's not already? Shit's wild, man.

 

 

Any minute now two hours ago, so does the game pre compile shaders or do them asynchronous now?

[stepee]

I dare someone to get this on pc right now and start going down the placebo stutter fix suggestions online rabbit hole 

[Xbob42]

19 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

Any minute now two hours ago, so does the game pre compile shaders or do them asynchronous now?

No idea, also that Tweet was hours old even when I posted it! Apparently it wasn't quite as simple (who'd've guessed) as initially thought, though they DID upload a patch to Steam about half an hour ago, so that might be it. Still hasn't reached players yet.

 

Based on this, I'm assuming they're still testing it:

 

 

22 minutes ago, stepee said:

I dare someone to get this on pc right now and start going down the placebo stutter fix suggestions online rabbit hole 

 

Dude the shit people will make up to try and get around an issue you just can't get around. in FF7R you COULD reduce a lot of the stutter by switching to DX11, but here it not only doesn't fix the stutter, it also makes the FPS way worse. There are no possible alternatives I'm even aware of yet everyone's got their own brand of mystical cure.

[stepee]

1 minute ago, Xbob42 said:

No idea, also that Tweet was hours old even when I posted it! Apparently it wasn't quite as simple (who'd've guessed) as initially thought, though they DID upload a patch to Steam about half an hour ago, so that might be it. Still hasn't reached players yet.

 

Based on this, I'm assuming they're still testing it:

 

 

 

Dude the shit people will make up to try and get around an issue you just can't get around. in FF7R you COULD reduce a lot of the stutter by switching to DX11, but here it not only doesn't fix the stutter, it also makes the FPS way worse. There are no possible alternatives I'm even aware of yet everyone's got their own brand of mystical cure.

 

 

 I was just joshing cuz he was acting like it was about to be all fixed up any minute when I mean I could have told him that wouldn’t be the case from the time it takes to push out alone. And if he knows that…why would you say something you won’t deliver on at this time.

 

I’ll laugh if it really was designed to pre-compile and a bug stopped that from happening though!

 

And yeah shader comp issues are just a perfect storm for misinformation because of the nature of it where it will improve when you repeat a section regardless what you do.