PaladinSolo Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 1 hour ago, SaysWho? said: Ojeda just dropped out. This guy just seems incredibly stupid, he resigned his state seat too to run, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 9 hours ago, Massdriver said: If these mechanisms were in place, I wouldn't view wealth concentrations as a large concern since everyone would be guaranteed a decent standard of living. Between universal healthcare, a negative income tax, and wage subsides, I think that should alleviate enough net suffering. Inequality would still exist, but inequality itself is not a real concern in this context. The concern is the well-being of the poor and middle class. That is the issue of moral significance. If the poor and middle class are doing well, then I don't feel compelled to destroy the upper class just because I want less inequality. I am also concerned about the global poor and absolute poverty, which is getting better. Markets and trade are giving billions of people better lives. The poor throughout the world mean something to me. I don't just consider how the system affects America. Edited The problem is you seem to think any of these proposals would "destroy" the upper class, lol. What would actually destroy the upper class is inequality getting to a point where this happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 10 hours ago, mclumber1 said: It's not getting worse - Compare the conditions of the poor in America 100 years ago to today and they are much better off in every imaginable way, despite the fact that there is a huge gap between the poor and rich today. I simply reject the idea that income inequality, on it's own, is a nefarious thing, given the increasing standard of living and government benefits that afforded to the poor in America. The benefits to the poor (or middle class for that matter) in this country is a joke, and are constantly under attack from wealthy interests via the Republican party (primarily). And even still, compared to other wealthy countries even when controlling for taxes an transfers, we have a higher rate of poverty than comparable countries. Sure, we have cheap TV's and cell phones, (one time purchases which can be saved for and have varying degrees of quality) but we also have a decreasing life expectancy and millions with diseases related to extreme poverty and third world living conditions. People have little idea of how bad it is in some places here, and it goes double for those who try to minimize or down play how bad poverty is and how fucking good the wealthiest have it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Their stuck in thinking the world is like it was 20 years ago, the middle and lower classes never recovered from the recession while the wealthy didn't just recover but surged, to say quality of life is still on the rise is ignorance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 A winning platform from another billionaire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 21 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: A winning platform from another billionaire I'm really wondering where the GOP goes when Trump loses in 2020, they've gone all in on him, and are considering not even allowing challengers, it seems almost like this is their last stand, and i can't imagine it survives in its current form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 4 hours ago, SaysWho? said: Ojeda just dropped out. Did he ever get to policy #3 on his website? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 43 minutes ago, PaladinSolo said: I'm really wondering where the GOP goes when Trump loses in 2020, they've gone all in on him, and are considering not even allowing challengers, it seems almost like this is their last stand, and i can't imagine it survives in its current form. The GOP will be fine for the foreseeable future. We’re not even a decade removed from the last time people predicted the death of the Republican Party. 12 hours ago, mclumber1 said: It's not getting worse - Compare the conditions of the poor in America 100 years ago to today and they are much better off in every imaginable way, despite the fact that there is a huge gap between the poor and rich today. I simply reject the idea that income inequality, on it's own, is a nefarious thing, given the increasing standard of living and government benefits that afforded to the poor in America. This strikes me as a rather obtuse and shortsighted way of looking at income inequality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 41 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said: The GOP will be fine for the foreseeable future. We’re not even a decade removed from the last time people predicted the death of the Republican Party. This strikes me as a rather obtuse and shortsighted way of looking at income inequality. 10 years ago there were 20 million less eligible millennial voters and 2 million more boomer voters, with Gen z looking to be even more hostile to the GOP than millennial. We are now at the tipping point where it will become impossible to win with just boomers especially with the younger gens being 2-1 against you and one of them hitting the age where they vote far more regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Kal-El814 said: The GOP will be fine for the foreseeable future. We’re not even a decade removed from the last time people predicted the death of the Republican Party. This strikes me as a rather obtuse and shortsighted way of looking at income inequality. You mean the argument "You're not living in a shack with a dirt floor and the probability of dying from cholera/dysentery in your early 30s is practically non-existent" simply isn't sufficiently compelling enough to justify the existence of obscene concentrations of wealth?!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Kal-El814 said: The GOP will be fine for the foreseeable future. We’re not even a decade removed from the last time people predicted the death of the Republican Party. We are also two years removed from the last time people predicted the death of the Democratic Party. Politics are fun lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 5 minutes ago, Jose said: We are also two years removed from the last time people predicted the death of the Democratic Party. Politics are fun lol. The longer term problem for the party is their deepening embrace of rural white grievance politics, when whites are becoming less and less of the electorate as gen z and others are more diverse than ten years ago and able to vote in greater numbers, and the country is becoming more Urban/suburban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: The longer term problem for the party is their deepening embrace of rural white grievance politics, when whites are becoming less and less of the electorate as gen z and others are more diverse than ten years ago and able to vote in greater numbers, and the country is becoming more Urban/suburban. While this is true, we have to be careful to not overstate this effect. Had any other Republican been President during this midterm election, we would not have seen these absurd gains in suburbia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted January 26, 2019 Author Share Posted January 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jose said: While this is true, we have to be careful to not overstate this effect. Had any other Republican been President during this midterm election, we would not have seen these absurd gains in suburbia. At the same time, I'm not 100% that rural America would have the turnout it does now since they came out in larger percentages in 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 6 minutes ago, Jose said: While this is true, we have to be careful to not overstate this effect. Had any other Republican been President during this midterm election, we would not have seen these absurd gains in suburbia. I think Trump is just speeding the existing trends along. And is not like this is an overnight process that can't be reversed, but the Republican party should understand their brand for people that are now growing up is two of the objectively worst presidencies bookending an average president, or at least not god awful in comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Trump definitely super charged young adult turnout, and I think he hastened the boomers fall from power because people who vote for the first time are more likely to continue voting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 But also, here's something fun If he runs as an independent there's a much, much better chance that Trump gets a second term Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 11 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: But also, here's something fun If he runs as an independent there's a much, much better chance that Trump gets a second term There's a much better chance he pulls from Trump more than any dem though, he wreaks of fiscal conservative, and would likely pull Republicans who don't like Trump. Put another way, dems especially younger ones are on the verge of demanding an official headsman position and putting people like him to the block on WH lawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 I can more easily see him pulling disaffected "centrists"/"moderates" from a bloody democratic primary that ends up putting someone more progressive as the nominee rather than a Joe Biden type. Trump may have some damage right now but the waivering Republicans will fall in line behind Trump no matter what come 2020, just like they did in 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Joe Biden normalized gay marriage. Is that moderate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 There term moderate is highly subjective in what constitutes it, but Joe has been pegged by the media as the most moderate Democrat in the field of who is right now considered a front runner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 16 minutes ago, 2user1cup said: Joe Biden normalized gay marriage. Is that moderate? I mean the terms are fluid, too. Supporting gay marriage right now is certainly a moderate position, but he had a huge part in that happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Howard Shultz is an innovative billionaire! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 15 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said: Howard Shultz is an innovative billionaire! I mean who would have ever thought about making a chain from *checks notes* the most widely used addicting chemical in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 2 hours ago, SFLUFAN said: You mean the argument "You're not living in a shack with a dirt floor and the probability of dying from cholera/dysentery in your early 30s is practically non-existent" simply isn't sufficiently compelling enough to justify the existence of obscene concentrations of wealth?!! Poors these days aren’t crippled from polio yet they have the sack to be all “what have you done for me lately?” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 14 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said: I dont get why support for her would anger you more than Warren, Biden, or Gillibrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Colorado to possibly join popular vote interstate compact, or whatever you call it: https://www.9news.com/amp/article?section=news&subsection=politics&headline=bill-to-link-colos-presidential-choice-to-national-vote-heading-to-senate-floor&contentId=73-4372bfd1-8898-4466-806e-9959cfd2acfa&__twitter_impression=true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentWorld Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 11 minutes ago, Jose said: I dont get why support for her would anger you more than Warren, Biden, or Gillibrand. She was a career prosecutor, basically the tip of the spear of the shitty justice system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signifyin(g)Monkey Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 5 hours ago, PaladinSolo said: 10 years ago there were 20 million less eligible millennial voters and 2 million more boomer voters, with Gen z looking to be even more hostile to the GOP than millennial. We are now at the tipping point where it will become impossible to win with just boomers especially with the younger gens being 2-1 against you and one of them hitting the age where they vote far more regularly. Maybe, but nothing is predetermined, and history is dialectical—pushes in one direction lead to the emergence of countervailing forces. Look around the world: Orban , Duterte, Bolsonaro, Erdogan...all emerging long after everyone assumed, given the fall of the USSR and the end of the Cold War, that liberal democracy plus globalization would be the ‘way things are’ for the indefinite future, and some in places (ahem, Brazil) where the right wing was assumed to be ‘dead’. Be complacent at your (and my) own peril. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema- Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 It could only work if she's truly fed up with this shit and shows it. 2020's candidate can't run a safe prevent-defense like Clinton 2016. Trouble is that I'm skeptical she can really drop the mask she spent the better part of forty years developing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 We don't want Clinton Trump 2: electric bugaloo it's time to move on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Getting to run against Crooked Hillary again is Trump's wet dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Hilary 2.0: Unleashed would be hilarious. It would be entertaining to see so many pissed off people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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