General Gaming I am not touching the FF7 Remake. Major fucking spoilers. I am triple tagging spoilers.

[Duderino]

1 minute ago, legend said:

 

I'm not sure I would classify it as a misstep. I might end up liking what they're doing here. But I do think it's worth classifying it uniquely from most other "remakes" of various media.

Interesting.  FFVII is not a sacred cow for me so I'll be going into it with an open mind.

[Bacon]

My favorite meme to come out of all of this are the

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Watchmen of Fate memes. Those are the things in the game that are trying to make every universe follow the fate of the OG ff7. But they are getting compared to the fans of FF7, who are like me, and REEEE'ing about the changes. Some people are calling them Time Jannies. Video spoilers in the next spoiler. Late game spoilers too. 

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Basically, people are saying the ghost guys are the irate fans going "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE YOU CAN'T TELL CLOUD THAT YET." 

 

 

[Bacon]

Spoiler

 

[XxEvil AshxX]

I don't even really care about the creative liberties, I just don't trust the Kingdom Hearts guy to tell me a story without completely fucking it up and making it 20x more complicated than it needs to be.

 

Also.. waiting to play the Xbox version on my Series X. By that time it will undoubtedly include all the quality of life fixes that everyone is bound to complain about for the next year.

[crispy4000]

2 hours ago, XxEvil AshxX said:

Also.. waiting to play the Xbox version on my Series X. By that time it will undoubtedly include all the quality of life fixes that everyone is bound to complain about for the next year.

Like including the rest of the game. 

[darkness35]

On 4/6/2020 at 8:59 PM, Bacon said:

lol I just watched this today

 

Did you watch the Episode Gladiolus video?  Also another channel has these videos, and also were the original creators LOL

 

 

 

[Bacon]

I have not. 

[Keyser_Soze]

Listening to the Bombcast and they talk about it pretty in depth. "They kingdom hearts'd it up" when you get to a certain point and it becomes "very anime"

 

RIP @Emperor Diocletian II

[Marcelus]

I welcome it. it's something different. relax.

[Xbob42]

While I think the ending is a big ol' steaming pile of shit written by lifetime idiot Nomura, this thread was very fun to read as it was like Bacon was roleplaying as me!

[ALIEN-gunner]

Because of this thread I have no reason to play the game.

[crispy4000]

Fun thread to revisit after I played the game.
 

 Flagging @Bacon.

 

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It’s very, very close to what I was saying about DQXI’s post game.  A timeline split retcon, just without ‘whispers‘ trying to tilt the new timeline in a particular direction.

Here, we technically don’t know the catalyst for how the timeline split happened, although time travel would be a reasonable guess.  We don’t know the history there.  I’m okay with that being unanswered for now.

 

More importantly, just like DQXI, it doesn’t change anything about the original game and ending being what it is.  It doesn’t retroactively make it lesser or untrue.  If you liked it, you don’t have to buy into this as anything more than the original creators layering on another direction to spin off.  This is more of those characters, if you want it.  And they’re thankfully not ruined by this game either.
 

That said, it does afford them oppertunities to take more creative liberties, which could be good or bad.  But I still find that exciting since:

 

Spoiler

The future isn’t set, so there’s nothing to say that this new path couldn’t be more bleak in some ways than the old game.  It seems you’ve automatically jumped to the conclusion that this a future where things are better.

 

There’s also a suggestion that a several characters are aware of the split and/or have foreknowledge of the original game‘s path.  Some more than others.  It’s one of the more intriguing parts of the setup they could play with later.

 

I’d say that DQXI is closer to how you’re suggesting this is going to go down, when the clear implication in FF7R (if you’ve played it) is that’s a bad assumption to make.  Some parts of ending could be better presented for comprehension.  But that particular theme is hammered in through the entire game.  It’s pretty much the entire point.
 

If that’s still difficult to accept...
 

Spoiler

Zach is still dead in the timeline the FF7R characters are living in.  He’s alive in the other.  Which one is the ‘good’ timeline?  It still may be the original’s for all we know.

 

I’d guess they’ll try to leave that somewhat subjective, but that’s just a thought.

Overall, FF7R is a great, fun game.  One of the better games SquareEnix has produced.  The ending does get a bit convoluted, and mileage goes further if you played the original.  But the intent is still very clear, and does make the next game a bit more of an open book than you’d expect from a remake.
 

I wouldn’t tell anyone not to touch it.  Well, unless the very idea of Advent Children or Crisis Core was sacrilege to them.  This isn’t for someone like that.

[Xbob42]

Spoiler

If you're buying into it NOT being just basically the same story but a lot more bloodless, may I refer to literally any of Nomura's work? Nomura's track record is bloodless, stakes-less conflicts that go on forever and make no sense. So in a nutshell, what we've ALREADY gotten with FF7R. There is no evidence pointing to anything hitting harder or these lives being saved "costing" anything. You literally kick the shit out of destiny and then make everyone alive. It's the cheesiest most pointless nonsense.

 

And you don't have to "buy in" to it... but now that it's interacting with the original timeline that means it's all canon, whatever that might mean to you, it's rewriting the old game, and it's going to be the focus of Square for the next several years. So whether we like it or not, it's here to stay and will most certainly be considered in all future FF7 material, which makes it really hard to tune out.

But again, I am not huge on FF7 to begin with, I just think someone needs to kick Nomura in the balls every once in a while so he can remember what stakes feel like.

 

[crispy4000]

Those may be valid criticisms, depending on where the story goes.  There’s still a good opportunity to do something a bit more nuanced here.  The themes of the game strongly imply

Spoiler

the future is unknown.  And it’s hard to imagine them not leaning into that later.

Beyond that the plot sticks close to the original for 90%+ of it, so the beats are largely the same.   I wouldn’t call the original FF7 especially high stakes at this point.

 

I think the Remake saga will be judged more by what comes next than what Nomura has done in the past.
 

We’d agree about stakes in regard to the final battle though.  It’s one of the things the ending section set up poorly, IMO.

[Bacon]

[crispy4000]

18 hours ago, Bacon said:

You’ve already leaned in harder than most people that played it, lol.  It ruins FF7 for you because you believe it tries to make the og game look bad, and does so in an authoritative fashion.  

But FF7R doesn’t actually accomplish that.  In part because little of consequence actually changes (yet).
 

Instead, it sets up ways they could alter things in future iterations should they choose.  Ironically, that means the remake project is in the same place as when they first said it wouldn’t be a by-the-book retelling.  It confirms that we didn’t need the spoilers to tell us that.  As if that was even needed.
 

So maybe it’s more of a secondary warning to people like you?  Who knows.

[Bacon]

 

[crispy4000]

You’re mistaking me for someone telling you to play it.

[SaysWho?]

On 5/23/2020 at 8:54 PM, crispy4000 said:

Those may be valid criticisms, depending on where the story goes.  There’s still a good opportunity to do something a bit more nuanced here.  The themes of the game strongly imply

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the future is unknown.  And it’s hard to imagine them not leaning into that later.

Beyond that the plot sticks close to the original for 90%+ of it, so the beats are largely the same.   I wouldn’t call the original FF7 especially high stakes at this point.

 

I think the Remake saga will be judged more by what comes next than what Nomura has done in the past.
 

We’d agree about stakes in regard to the final battle though.  It’s one of the things the ending section set up poorly, IMO.

 

Even better is a huge "FF7 is my fav game" fan like Maximillian really loving the possibilities for future stories. FF7 was a big part of my video game childhood and is a game I've revisited many times. If I hear the original soundtrack, I want to return to the world. Getting away from 

Spoiler

being 100% the original's story but keeping it relevant -- the game clearly keeps the original's story as one that happened in at least one reality, one that was fated to happen -- is fine by me. If I want the original story, I own the original game.

While the end of the game did feel a bit Kingdom Hearts-y with its crazy ass fate monsters and all the jumping around by the characters, the story was not a cluster like I'm used to with KH. And the bosses/combat in this game were significantly better than KH3's.

 

[Duderino]

I'll try to sum this up now that I've completed the game.

 

If someone reading this thread even remotely likes FF7's cast of characters, just go buy the game.  The remake does a superb job in this department, taking what was already good and making it that much stronger.

 

But yes, as a forewarning the plot takes some abstract turns with creative liberties, especially as you approach the end.  The original FFVII was not as "out-there" this early into the story.  Not everyone will be on board with that.

 

No matter, the FFVII Remake is still a clear return to form for Square and the Final Fantasy franchise.  Don't bother listening to anyone suggesting otherwise until you play through the game and form your own opinions.

[darkness35]

 

 

 

 

[BloodyHell]

Op, im obviously not telling you what to do, but if you loved ff7, you should play this game. Yes it’s different, but its also very familiar. It made me feel the same things the original did so long ago. Its just fun, they nailed the characters. 
 

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And the Barret death, while dumb, is also forgettable. Nothing changes eith Barrett, ifs more showing them why they have to move on in the way they do.

 

[BloodyHell]

I wad more skeptical than anyone when they said they weren’t doing s dlightly expanded 1:1 remake. But im so glad I played this game.

[Keyser_Soze]

10 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Op, im obviously not telling you what to do, but if you loved ff7, you should play this game. Yes it’s different, but its also very familiar. It made me feel the same things the original did so long ago. Its just fun, they nailed the characters.

 

You're way late to the party and he's not going to play it.

[BloodyHell]

4 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

You're way late to the party and he's not going to play it.

Thats fine. I just find his argument to be weird. 

[Spork3245]

5 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

Op, im obviously not telling you what to do, but if you loved ff7, you should play this game. Yes it’s different, but its also very familiar. It made me feel the same things the original did so long ago. Its just fun, they nailed the characters. 
 

  Reveal hidden contents

And the Barret death, while dumb, is also forgettable. Nothing changes eith Barrett, ifs more showing them why they have to move on in the way they do.

 

 #you’venevermetbacon

[BloodyHell]

15 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

 #you’venevermetbacon

Im actually cooking some right now, thank you very much! It smells delicious, and would absolutely play this game if we hadn’t turned him into table fare!

[heydude93]

Just finished watching the credits roll.  Two questions:

 

- Should I play and beat the original before starting the next one?

 

- If this isn't a sequel disguised as a remake to tell a new-ish story using the same characters and world, what's the point of adding the whispers of fate/Sephiroth/multiverse timeline angle instead of just tweaking and expanding the story like in other remakes?  It seems like there's good reason to expect significant changes or why introduce the wof/alternate timeline stuff at all?

[Keyser_Soze]

51 minutes ago, heydude93 said:

:Should I play and beat the original before starting the next one?

 

Have you ever played the original? If you have I'd say wait. If you haven't I'd say play it to see what the original game is before they change it into whatever it it will become.

[crispy4000]

5 hours ago, heydude93 said:

- If this isn't a sequel disguised as a remake to tell a new-ish story using the same characters and world, what's the point of adding the whispers of fate/Sephiroth/multiverse timeline angle instead of just tweaking and expanding the story like in other remakes?  It seems like there's good reason to expect significant changes or why introduce the wof/alternate timeline stuff at all?

 

Spoilers for FF7R ahead:

 

Spoiler

 

1) Its a meta commentary on being able to deviate further from the original’s plot beats after Midgar, if they so choose.  In other words, it communicates that it doesn’t have to go down as people remember it.  Whereas this Part 1 was course corrected by the ‘whispers’ / fan expectations holding true.  

 

2) There’s now a secondary timeline that deviates heavily from the original.  They could riff on that Lost-style to add more intrigue for those that played the first game.  It’s unknown how they’ll interact and what the characters know about it.  

 

3) Cynically, it gave them the excuse for you to fight the big bad super prematurely. Though not as a final encounter clearly.

 

They did end up fleshing out a lot of characters and events further like other remakes.  That’s part of it too.  But it’s evident they wanted to break free from the expectations of ‘its muh FF7 dont you change a thing of consequence.’

 

Oddly, they’ve said since the release they don’t want the next entries to deviate too far.  It sounds like it won’t be a total do over.

 

Playing the original might be a good idea if you want to know where they do change things up.  It could give that more context.  But you’ll be able to know some of that anyways based on what I said earlier.

[BloodyHell]

6 hours ago, heydude93 said:

Just finished watching the credits roll.  Two questions:

 

- Should I play and beat the original before starting the next one?

 

- If this isn't a sequel disguised as a remake to tell a new-ish story using the same characters and world, what's the point of adding the whispers of fate/Sephiroth/multiverse timeline angle instead of just tweaking and expanding the story like in other remakes?  It seems like there's good reason to expect significant changes or why introduce the wof/alternate timeline stuff at all?

I f you do play the original, I suggest you play it on PC with thd New Threat mod installed. Its a much, much better game. 

[heydude93]

Based on these responses and some stuff I looked up online this morning I should probably do a playthrough before the next remake. Wish I had played it in the 90's, but better late than never.

7 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Have you ever played the original? If you have I'd say wait. If you haven't I'd say play it to see what the original game is before they change it into whatever it it will become.

I've actually never played it before!  FF7R is my first experience w/ any story in the FF7 world. 

 

6 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Spoilers for FF7R ahead:

 

  Hide contents

 

1) Its a meta commentary on being able to deviate further from the original’s plot beats after Midgar, if they so choose.  In other words, it communicates that it doesn’t have to go down as people remember it.  Whereas this Part 1 was course corrected by the ‘whispers’ / fan expectations holding true.  

 

2) There’s now a secondary timeline that deviates heavily from the original.  They could riff on that Lost-style to add more intrigue for those that played the first game.  It’s unknown how they’ll interact and what the characters know about it.  

 

3) Cynically, it gave them the excuse for you to fight the big bad super prematurely. Though not as a final encounter clearly.

 

They did end up fleshing out a lot of characters and events further like other remakes.  That’s part of it too.  But it’s evident they wanted to break free from the expectations of ‘its muh FF7 dont you change a thing of consequence.’

 

Oddly, they’ve said since the release they don’t want the next entries to deviate too far.  It sounds like it won’t be a total do over.

 

Playing the original might be a good idea if you want to know where they do change things up.  It could give that more context.  But you’ll be able to know some of that anyways based on what I said earlier.

 

That's what I'm wondering. Maybe the Whispers are mainly intended as a narrative framing device for the purpose of helping the playthroughs of the remake feel fresh like anything could happen. I'm just not sure why there needed to be in-game lore about this and multiverse stuff instead of a blurb in an interview from the the team about changing and updating some things as if they waited until now to tell the original story (like REmake), unless there will be more changes than we think and the goal is to make both a remake and sequel to some extent.  Guess we'll find out when the next game drops.

 

2 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

I f you do play the original, I suggest you play it on PC with thd New Threat mod installed. Its a much, much better game. 

Dope, I'll keep that in mind. 

[crispy4000]

2 hours ago, heydude93 said:

 

That's what I'm wondering. Maybe the Whispers are mainly intended as a narrative framing device for the purpose of helping the playthroughs of the remake feel fresh like anything could happen. I'm just not sure why there needed to be in-game lore about this and multiverse stuff instead of a blurb in an interview from the the team about changing and updating some things as if they waited until now to tell the original story (like REmake), unless there will be more changes than we think and the goal is to make both a remake and sequel to some extent.  Guess we'll find out when the next game drops.

 

 

Not everyone will read an interview.  I think it's also a device to get people to gradually warm up to the idea of bigger changes forthcoming.  You're probably on the right track about it being a remake and sequel.  That's evident in the two directions they've staked for it to take off from.

 

Next game will continue to be a tease, no doubt.

[Keyser_Soze]

I'd also suggest reading / using the official thread not the "official thread of not playing the game". You could go over some of the spoiler stuff you may have avoided when initially playing the game