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Netanyahu says he will begin annexing West Bank if re-elected prime minister.

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SilentWorld

SilentWorld

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, chakoo said:

Fuck that man, if he does then we should not lift a finger to help if other nations take this as a reason to attack them. Actually we should be pulling all support out of there if they do.

It’ll be entertaining to watch what Trump would do. 

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atom631

atom631

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On 4/6/2019 at 6:54 PM, RedSoxFan9 said:

How can anyone criticize this?

 

Im not sure if youre being sarcastic or not, but my limited knowledge of the area and situation have me asking the same question. So maybe you guys can educate me. 

 

Wasnt all this land originally the Kingdom of Israel? and over the centuries the land changed hands  and was occupied by many different races who conquered it? I know Palestinians have a historical claim to the area as well, but they were not native to this patch of land. They took it by force.  I thought even archaeological digs confirmed that the oldest artifacts discovered in the region were Jewish. Also, I had read somewhere that even the Koran states that this land is the land of the jews (or something to that affect). 

 

If what I said above is true, then Jews were forced to leave this land (the diaspora) and should have the right to take it back. Considering Jews cant live anywhere in the world peacefully without persecution, it seems only fair they should be able to return to their homeland and the rest of the world should support it. After all, isn't that what pretty much the entirety of Europe,  Asia, Middle East and a decent sized portion of the US population want?  

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Chairslinger

Chairslinger

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2 hours ago, atom631 said:

 

Im not sure if youre being sarcastic or not, but my limited knowledge of the area and situation have me asking the same question. So maybe you guys can educate me. 

 

Wasnt all this land originally the Kingdom of Israel? and over the centuries the land changed hands  and was occupied by many different races who conquered it? I know Palestinians have a historical claim to the area as well, but they were not native to this patch of land. They took it by force.  I thought even archaeological digs confirmed that the oldest artifacts discovered in the region were Jewish. Also, I had read somewhere that even the Koran states that this land is the land of the jews (or something to that affect). 

 

If what I said above is true, then Jews were forced to leave this land (the diaspora) and should have the right to take it back. Considering Jews cant live anywhere in the world peacefully without persecution, it seems only fair they should be able to return to their homeland and the rest of the world should support it. After all, isn't that what pretty much the entirety of Europe,  Asia, Middle East and a decent sized portion of the US population want?  

 

 

Any claim of the land being "originally Jewish" is somewhat complicated by their own scripture documenting the various genocides they committed to acquire the land from the previous occupants.

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atom631

atom631

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Chairslinger said:

 

 

Any claim of the land being "originally Jewish" is somewhat complicated by their own scripture documenting the various genocides they committed to acquire the land from the previous occupants.

 

who were the previous occupants? and do you know which scripture says this? id like to read up on it. 

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Signifyin(g)Monkey

Signifyin(g)Monkey

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, atom631 said:

 

Im not sure if youre being sarcastic or not, but my limited knowledge of the area and situation have me asking the same question. So maybe you guys can educate me. 

 

Wasnt all this land originally the Kingdom of Israel? and over the centuries the land changed hands  and was occupied by many different races who conquered it? I know Palestinians have a historical claim to the area as well, but they were not native to this patch of land. They took it by force.  I thought even archaeological digs confirmed that the oldest artifacts discovered in the region were Jewish. Also, I had read somewhere that even the Koran states that this land is the land of the jews (or something to that affect). 

 

If what I said above is true, then Jews were forced to leave this land (the diaspora) and should have the right to take it back. Considering Jews cant live anywhere in the world peacefully without persecution, it seems only fair they should be able to return to their homeland and the rest of the world should support it. After all, isn't that what pretty much the entirety of Europe,  Asia, Middle East and a decent sized portion of the US population want?  

In regards to this particular action--annexing the West Bank--I would say that the issue is that this is very likely going to incite one of the ethnic groups involved in this conflict into violence, for no necessary reason.

 

Whether it 'rightfully belongs' to Israel or not, Israel has no pressing need to annex the West Bank.  The country has gotten along just fine inhabiting it without an official annexation.  So why stoke the flames of conflict?  Sure, it benefits Netanyahu and his allies politically and throws some red meat to nationalists--but you need a better reason than that to put both Israelis and Palestinians in danger.

 

As for the larger question you're asking, I personally don't think the idea that  'ethnic group x lived here first, it's rightfully their land' makes any sense when we're talking about a timescale of hundreds, not to mention thousands of years.  It would make no sense to dissolve the United States and hand ownership of its land and control of its government back to the native Indian tribes who 'lived here first' a long time ago, thus disenfranchising the many millions who have since made it their home.  The ownership claim of land needs to be based on more recent history, and in particular the history of the people who live there in the present.

 

So here's the conundrum of modern Israel: the Jews who live there have lived there for many years and developed a society there, so they clearly have a legitimate claim to the land.  But so have the Palestinians.  And the two groups are for all intents and purposes culturally incompatible.   If you're asking for a solution, I'm not sure there even is one--so in the meantime why not just try to not make things worse, for example by only risk stoking tensions between the two groups when it's absolutely necessary?  Which, in this case, it's not.   

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Commissar SFLUFAN

Commissar SFLUFAN

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22 minutes ago, atom631 said:

 

who were the previous occupants? and do you know which scripture says this? id like to read up on it. 

The Caananites and 30 other ethnic/tribal groups. The conquest/extermination of these groups by the Hebrews is described in the Book of Joshua.

 

You really, REALLY don't want to start using the Bible as any type of historical justification for the "legitimacy" of the existence of the Israeli state.

 

Put aside the completely nonsense notion of a biblically-based claim of ownership to the entirety of Palestine by the State of Israel.  Instead, listen to this podcast for an in-depth discussion of how things got to where they are now without the need for relying on the Bible.

 

Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem

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Signifyin(g)Monkey

Signifyin(g)Monkey

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25 minutes ago, atom631 said:

 

who were the previous occupants? and do you know which scripture says this? id like to read up on it. 

For one, the tribes of the Northwest Arabian peninsula which the Bible refers to as 'Midianites'.  The Book of Numbers narrates the expulsion (and genocide) of the Midianites here.

 

Actually, you ought to read the whole Book of Numbers, as it's one of the most detailed accounts of the conquests, and basically describes God 'giving' already-inhabited lands to the Jews, and ordering them to take said lands by force. (not trying to single out the Jews here, btw--this kind of thing can be found in the religion of many different ethnic groups)

 

It illustrates one principle clearly: You know it's never going to end well when a claim to land is written into a holy text.  Double that for when it's written into multiple holy texts that don't always agree.

 

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atom631

atom631

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

The Hebrews were just another of the Semitic tribes that inhabited that area.

 

got it. so thousands of years B.C, the area was inhabited by many different tribes. I'm sure they were warring and fighting all long for pieces of land. What a bloody and messy region. TIL

 

 

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