Movies Avengers: Endgame Trailer and Discussion Thread

[EternallDarkness]

1 hour ago, IdeaOfEvil said:

Over simplifying a poorly written and shot scene and then complaining about the fans who are calling it out is pretty weak in itself. Just because it's "women in a dominated male movie" doesn't excuse it. No one's complaining about anything Black Widow did in this film because nothing about her was forced or "hammy"

 

this...

 

I don't think the MCU has ever treated female characters as damsels in distress or as second class heroes. If they want to make an all female avengers flick, I'd be there day one.(of course I'm pretty much there day one for all the marvel flicks anyway ) 

 

Black Widow : Ironman 2...she breaks in hammer's facility and kicks the ass of a dozen guys. Avengers: no powers and yet she's taking on the aliens just like everyone else. in Avengers 2 she's going toe to toe with the bots like everyone else.

 

Maria Hill  Avengers 2, the moment Ultron shows up, she's the first one pulling out a weapon, then afterward she's sitting there just pulling glass out of her feet as if it's nothing as they discuss what to do next

 

Scarlett Witch ...she freaking screws with everyone's head in Avengers 2 practically wrecking the team, and then later is beating the crap out of Ultron's army. Infinity War after Vision first gets stabbed, she's coming to his rescue. Later on she totally shows off her being a boss by taking out the giant digger machine single handedly.

 

Did any woman in Black Panther not seem like a complete badass? 

 

Lady Sif was kicking ass and taking names from the moment she appeared in Thor. Not to mention Thor's mother was a badass, taking up the sword the moment the dark elves arrived...and speaking of the Thor films and badasses….Valkyrie was shown to be a badass from the first moment she appeared on screen...a drunk badass at the time, but a badass nonetheless.

 

 Who taught Ant-man to fight? Gee that would be the tough as nails Hope Van Dyne.

 

Gamora and Nebula , seriously the two of them have more balls then the rest of the GoTG team combined.

 

so ….

Spoiler

it's not that I have a problem with a woman power scene, it was the way it was done. In Infinity War we already saw the 'she's not alone' women backing up women scene with BW and Okoye backing up Wanda....but this scene just felt forced beyond belief....seriously we saw how damn big that battlefield was but we are supposed to believe at the very moment when Captain Marvel says she needs help, every damn female character just happens to be there?  Was it cool to see all the female characters at least get 10 seconds of screen time, sure, but it just felt … well, forced. It wasn't as if they didn't showcase the female characters already holding their own. Marvel was going toe-to-toe with Thanos, and earlier when Wanda first came face to face with Thanos she was kicking his ass. So the forced 'girl power' scene just seemed cheap and honestly out of place. Too PC IMO. 

 

[Guest]

Dudes have big moments together in these movies all the time, that is why it “feels forced” when characters who don’t normally get those moments end up with them. If such a scene happened with regularity, nobody would even notice that it happened.

 

It will always feel forced when people make an effort to show something outside of the norm. This same complaint gets made about racial minorities entering spaces mostly reserved for the majority.

[CitizenVectron]

27 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Dudes have big moments together in these movies all the time, that is why it “feels forced” when characters who don’t normally get those moments end up with them. If such a scene happened with regularity, nobody would even notice that it happened.

 

It will always feel forced when people make an effort to show something outside of the norm. This same complaint gets made about racial minorities entering spaces mostly reserved for the majority.

 

Exactly. And showing more and more of these moments will make them seem more and more normal.

[EternallDarkness]

32 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Dudes have big moments together in these movies all the time, that is why it “feels forced” when characters who don’t normally get those moments end up with them. If such a scene happened with regularity, nobody would even notice that it happened.

 

It will always feel forced when people make an effort to show something outside of the norm. This same complaint gets made about racial minorities entering spaces mostly reserved for the majority.

 

No it feels forced here because 

Spoiler

the sheer number of characters that come out of nowhere to suddenly line up. This isn't like the scene in Avengers where they do the regroup scene with the camera rotating around them from the opening of Ultron where all of them are racing in slow-mo across the screen, this every female character suddenly popping up one after another. It would have felt just as forced had it been Thor or Tony saying they needed help and then every guy character showing up.  This isn't a five man/woman team regrouping it's a marching parade 

 

[Guest]

If you actually believe what you’re saying...kudos for speaking your truth

[Kal-El814]

The fact that I haven't seen this movie, have only skimmed this thread, have not opened any of the spoilered comments, and yet would bet my life that I know in broad strokes what people are talking about... the issue probably isn't with the movie, you guys.

 

 

[TheLeon]

Spoiler

All the talk about time travel movies... they really needed someone to come in Looper-style with a "just don't think about it". 

 

Cap had a lot of my favorite moments. His one on one fight, the elevator, bringing the thunder... just a great send-off. 

 

Was Fat Thor leaked/rumored at all? That was a complete, wonderful surprise. 

 

As far as the "smaller" characters go, we kinda figured that Ant-Man and his quantum realm would be a big factor, but I'm kinda surprised at how large Nebula's role was. 

 

Complaining about the women's hero shot is hilarious. It's 5 seconds, gives a significant percentage of the audience the kind of thrill that they don't often get, then it's right back to the same old battle chaos. (although I do think there was a missed opportunity for someone like Quill to jump in at the last second)

Overall, I enjoyed it. 

[johnny]

Idk what you guys are talking about but to the women haters 

 

 

[Ghost_MH]

27 minutes ago, TheLeon said:

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All the talk about time travel movies... they really needed someone to come in Looper-style with a "just don't think about it". 

 

Cap had a lot of my favorite moments. His one on one fight, the elevator, bringing the thunder... just a great send-off. 

 

Was Fat Thor leaked/rumored at all? That was a complete, wonderful surprise. 

 

As far as the "smaller" characters go, we kinda figured that Ant-Man and his quantum realm would be a big factor, but I'm kinda surprised at how large Nebula's role was. 

 

Complaining about the women's hero shot is hilarious. It's 5 seconds, gives a significant percentage of the audience the kind of thrill that they don't often get, then it's right back to the same old battle chaos. (although I do think there was a missed opportunity for someone like Quill to jump in at the last second)

Overall, I enjoyed it. 

 

Spoiler

As far as the hero shot goes, this is like the millionth, completely improbable, seemingly made for a poster, hero shot the MCU has given us.

 

Everyone should be used to it by now.

 

[IdeaOfEvil]

johnny, one day I'm gonna marry you.

[5timechamp]

4 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Oh one other thought

 

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i was a little underwhelmed by the "retread" of Thanos as the main villain... WITHOUT the Stones this time too. Once Wanda and Captain Marvel joined the final battle, he and his whole army were CLEARLY outgunned.  Both of them got their powers from the stones so it makes sense. I just feel like there was an opportunity for another big bad to show up... Red Skull was kind of wasted in his cameo.

 

Spoiler

I didnt feel as bothered by the retread...maybe because they killed the "hero" Thanos from part 1 and the Endgame Thanos felt a little "different" more malevolent..

 

What I will admit though is that at no point did the Avengers really feel threatened or in danger...Once the time travel is in play the movie is in all win mode for the heroes...  As other pointed out all of Thanos' "generals" became cannon fodder..

 

Poor Clint found out how many fans he had in this film given how people were hoping he and not Widow died judging by the gasping....

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Kudos to them for not undoing some of the deaths...even if Quicksilver deserved to come back..

 

[TheLeon]

Oh, one little thing I forgot. It barely counts as a spoiler, but I enjoyed the surprise of 

Spoiler

two more Community cameos, after Danny Pudi in Winter Soldier. I can only assume it was the Russo brothers who brought in Yvette Nicole Brown for three lines and Ken Jeong for zero. 

 

[Ghost_MH]

10 minutes ago, 5timechamp said:

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I didnt feel as bothered by the retread...maybe because they killed the "hero" Thanos from part 1 and the Endgame Thanos felt a little "different" more malevolent..

 

What I will admit though is that at no point did the Avengers really feel threatened or in danger...Once the time travel is in play the movie is in all win mode for the heroes...  As other pointed out all of Thanos' "generals" became cannon fodder..

 

Poor Clint found out how many fans he had in this film given how people were hoping he and not Widow died judging by the gasping....

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Kudos to them for not undoing some of the deaths...even if Quicksilver deserved to come back..

 

 

Spoiler

So... Past Gamora. Was she dusted with the rest of those that came forward in time with Thanos? It didn't seem like she was in the ship with the rest of the Guardians. I'm assuming Tony dusted Thanos to death, but then that creates a paradox and Tony should be well aware of that fact.. Everything should be returned to the past and that should include Thanos or else they never make the initial time machine because past Thanos was defeated before he ever had the chance to gather the stones.

 

If Tony, instead, dusted him back in time, that would be a different story and would mean Gamora is still dead at the bottom of Soul Stone cliff. In the present.

 

[skillzdadirecta]

14 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

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So... Past Gamora. Was she dusted with the rest of those that came forward in time with Thanos? It didn't seem like she was in the ship with the rest of the Guardians. I'm assuming Tony dusted Thanos to death, but then that creates a paradox and Tony should be well aware of that fact.. Everything should be returned to the past and that should include Thanos or else they never make the initial time machine because past Thanos was defeated before he ever had the chance to gather the stones.

 

If Tony, instead, dusted him back in time, that would be a different story and would mean Gamora is still dead at the bottom of Soul Stone cliff. In the present.

 

Spoiler

Past Gamora left I think... You see Starlord searching for her when their all on the ship. If she got dusted, I think they would have shown that. They pretty much dispel the notion of paradoxes in this film regarding time travel. Nebula killed her past self and didn't create a paradox. The timeline would just split off into an alternate reality but their timeline would still continue. Having said that I'm pretty sure past nebula is still alive in the present.

 

[Jason]

1 minute ago, skillzdadirecta said:

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Past Gamora left I think... You see Starlord searching for her when their all on the ship. If she got dusted, I think they would have shown that. They pretty much dispel the notion of paradoxes in this film regarding time travel. Nebula killed her past self and didn't create a paradox. The timeline would just split off into an alternate reality but their timeline would still continue. Having said that I'm pretty sure past nebula is still alive in the present.

 

 

Spoiler

Steve Roger seemingly breaks the rules they set for time travel at the start of the movie 

 

[skillzdadirecta]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

 

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Steve Roger seemingly breaks the rules they set for time travel at the start of the movie 

 

 

How?

 

[Jason]

5 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

How?

 

 

Spoiler

Captain America being old at the time he comes out of the ice in the first movie, instead of being in a ice and then brought ought of it 50 years later, should have created a branch point at that point in time, since he was pretty important to events. 

 

[Ghost_MH]

5 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

How?

 

 

Spoiler

If Steve changed the past and caused a new branch, there's no guarantee he would have been there to meet up with the crew in the present. His new life would exist in an alternate timeline.

 

That said, there's always the chance this was never a paradox and Peggy's unnamed husband was always Steve.

 

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

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If Steve changed the past and caused a new branch, there's no guarantee he would have been there to meet up with the crew in the present. His new life would exist in an alternate timeline.

 

That said, there's always the chance this was never a paradox and Peggy's unnamed husband was always Steve.

 

 

Spoiler

But if Peggy's unnamed husband was always Steve, this is presumably how he got there. 

 

[XxEvil AshxX]

Just kinda skimmed this last page but i know the scene you're discussing. I noted it immediately as seeming kinda "forced" but i literally had forgotten all about it 30 seconds later. Doesnt really seem like anything to get worked up over.

 

I thoroughly enjoyed the movie and was trembling with nerd tears for 3/4 of it, but tgere are so many other plot points to argue about lol.

[skillzdadirecta]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

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Captain America being old at the time he comes out of the ice in the first movie, instead of being in a ice and then brought ought of it 50 years later, should have created a branch point at that point in time, since he was pretty important to events. 

 

 

1 minute ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

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If Steve changed the past and caused a new branch, there's no guarantee he would have been there to meet up with the crew in the present. His new life would exist in an alternate timeline.

 

That said, there's always the chance this was never a paradox and Peggy's unnamed husband was always Steve.

 

 

but

Spoiler

he didn't change anything... he still came out of the ice, still went back in time and met up with Peggy and lived a life with her. His life still went on as is... they said this in their explanation of time travel. Everything still happened for them in their timeline. That's why Nebula is still alive despite killing her past self. The past in which nebula died along with Thanos' whole army just branched off into it's own timeline... as The Ancient One said.

 

[Guest]

There is absolutely

Spoiler

some timeline branching happening in the flick. Time travel makes no sense, don’t try  

 

[EternallDarkness]

definitely a problem there

 

Spoiler

Peggy's husband wasn't Steve, she states he was one of the men Steve liberated during First Avenger. 

 

[Ghost_MH]

6 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

 

but

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he didn't change anything... he still came out of the ice, still went back in time and met up with Peggy and lived a life with her. His life still went on as is... they said this in their explanation of time travel. Everything still happened for them in their timeline. That's why Nebula is still alive despite killing her past self. The past in which nebula died along with Thanos' whole army just branched off into it's own timeline... as The Ancient One said.

 

 

Spoiler

That's totally fine. The big thing is whether their time machine can travel to alternate timelines. Steve went back into a past to undo changes they made when they took the stones. Can their time machine travel anywhere in time or just up and down along their single branch?

 

[Ghost_MH]

Just now, EternallDarkness said:

definitely a problem there

 

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Peggy's husband wasn't Steve, she states he was one of the men Steve liberated during First Avenger. 

 

 

Spoiler

That means absolutely nothing coming from her, because she would totally lie to protect Steve and preserve the timeline.

 

You know...if that's what happened.

 

[skillzdadirecta]

1 minute ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

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That's totally fine. The big thing is whether their time machine can travel to alternate timelines. Steve went back into a past to undo changes they made when they took the stones. Can their time machine travel anywhere in time or just up and down along their single branch?

 

 

Spoiler

I believe just up and down their paths... they went back to the exact moment they took their stones so that they wouldn't  be missed. Same with Mjolnir... Cap was clearly returning the hammer too.

 

I didn't have a problem with any of this stuff and the filmmakers clearly wanted folks to throw out any preconceived notions folks would have regarding this completely made up concept 

[Ghost_MH]

1 minute ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

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I believe just up and down their paths... they went back to the exact moment they took their stones so that they wouldn't  be missed. Same with Mjolnir... Cap was clearly returning the hammer too.

 

I didn't have a problem with any of this stuff and the filmmakers clearly wanted folks to throw out any preconceived notions folks would have regarding this completely made up concept 

 

Ripping this stuff apart is my favorite/most hated part of this subject in films. Don't take this away from me.

[EternallDarkness]

6 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

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That means absolutely nothing coming from her, because she would totally lie to protect Steve and preserve the timeline.

 

You know...if that's what happened.

 

 

Spoiler

nah, just doesn't work their the no paradox crap they set up...of course are also left to bonder WTF happened to Loki and the Tesseract. Did Stever go back and foil him stealing it and giving them the slip, so there would have been 3 Steves at one point in time 

 

I have to say I both love and hate time travel stories.

 

[IdeaOfEvil]

Spoiler

 

All the time travel answers and speculations are just that - a mess of answers and speculations.

 

The Avengers are speculating that there are no paradoxes, and that anything done in the past won't affect their present/future, which they showed was true because the mistakes they made in the past did nothing to their present. But then The Ancient One says that the stones not being in her timeline will cause suffering, so they must be returned to the exact moment they are taken. But clearly once they were taken they couldn't be returned to their original timelines. If Cap went back in time to live a life to old age in the present, that means all of the stones he returned then existed with him during that entire time because Thanos was dead and never collected them. The stones exist again in this present universe. And now we have multiple stones and multiple universes, where Loki escaped with the tesseract (spelling?) in 2010 and then a new one existing when the heroes went back to the 70's to get another one sooner.

 

Honestly, any future writer can do whatever they want with this. There was no single answer that was maintained throughout the movie other than people had theories, and each theory was broken. At best, we can all see that each time someone went back in time a new universe was created.

 

 

[Ghost_MH]

1 minute ago, EternallDarkness said:

 

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nah, just doesn't work their the no paradox crap they set up...of course are also left to bonder WTF happened to Loki and the Tesseract. Did Stever go back and foil him stealing it and giving them the slip, so there would have been 3 Steves at one point in time 

 

I have to say I both love and hate time travel stories.

 

 

Spoiler

Depends. The Tesseract was returned to Asgard and sat there doing nothing until it was again stolen by Loki and remained in his possession until Thanos took it from him in Infinity War.

 

I'm sure all Steve did was return the Tesseract to the military base Tony stole it from and then just remained there with Peggy.

 

Maybe Loki's Disney+ series will be his adventures in the universe with the Tesseract leading up to the time he took over for Odin.

 

[Guest]

Spoiler

The movie literally makes fun of using movie logic to understand time travel. I love that we are discussing this  

 

[Ghost_MH]

6 minutes ago, IdeaOfEvil said:

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All the time travel answers and speculations are just that - a mess of answers and speculations.

 

The Avengers are speculating that there are no paradoxes, and that anything done in the past won't affect their present/future, which they showed was true because the mistakes they made in the past did nothing to their present. But then The Ancient One says that the stones not being in her timeline will cause suffering, so they must be returned to the exact moment they are taken. But clearly once they were taken they couldn't be returned to their original timelines. If Cap went back in time to live a life to old age in the present, that means all of the stones he returned then existed with him during that entire time because Thanos was dead and never collected them. The stones exist again in this present universe. And now we have multiple stones and multiple universes, where Loki escaped with the tesseract (spelling?) in 2010 and then a new one existing when the heroes went back to the 70's to get another one sooner.

 

Honestly, any future writer can do whatever they want with this. There was no single answer that was maintained throughout the movie other than people had theories, and each theory was broken. At best, we can all see that each time someone went back in time a new universe was created.

 

 

 

Spoiler

I think The Ancient One was making a reference to how Strange needs the Time Stone to defeat Dormammu in her future/Hulk's past.

 

[EternallDarkness]

and now here's another question to ponder

 

Spoiler

How the flaming hell are they going to deal with things going forward....It was 2018 when Infinity War took place....Endgame is five years later.....so Far From Home is taking place in 2023??? And if that is the case how in the hell does the world look that normal in the previews? We saw what a shithole many places around the world had become after half the world disappeared....granted those shots of San Fran could have been from today but you saw how rundown areas were, are we supposed to think half the world instantly returning after being gone 5 years things are just going to somehow go back to normal? You'd have a ton of people who had moved on, remarried, started new families and then bang their old families return. The time travel angle really screws things going on from here unless they are somehow just going to ignore it. 

 

[IdeaOfEvil]

1 minute ago, EternallDarkness said:

and now here's another question to ponder

 

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How the flaming hell are they going to deal with things going forward....It was 2018 when Infinity War took place....Endgame is five years later.....so Far From Home is taking place in 2023??? And if that is the case how in the hell does the world look that normal in the previews? We saw what a shithole many places around the world had become after half the world disappeared....granted those shots of San Fran could have been from today but you saw how rundown areas were, are we supposed to think half the world instantly returning after being gone 5 years things are just going to somehow go back to normal? You'd have a ton of people who had moved on, remarried, started new families and then bang their old families return. The time travel angle really screws things going on from here unless they are somehow just going to ignore it. 

 

 

Technically that was Oakland =) SF was in the background and they were on the old Army docks where container ship cranes are... So, yea Oakland is pretty shitty at all times lol

[5timechamp]

This movie just made Thor cosplay so much easier and accessible to the “masses”