U.S. to Tell Russia It Is Leaving Landmark I.N.F. Treaty

[Jason]

Quote

The Trump administration is planning to tell Russian leaders next week that it is preparing to exit the landmark Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, according to American officials and foreign diplomats.

President Trump has been moving toward leaving the three-decade-old treaty because Russia has been violating it for years and because it is constraining the United States from deploying new weapons to counter the growing arsenal of intermediate-range weapons that China has deployed in seeking greater influence in the Western Pacific.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/19/us/politics/russia-nuclear-arms-treaty-trump-administration.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes

[CayceG]

 

[GOD]

Jesus Fucking Christ!  

 

 

My bad!

[Jason]

11 minutes ago, CayceG said:

 

 

MAGA, CRY MOAR LIBTARDS

[CitizenVectron]

I just hope that my family and I are atomized instantly by a detonation and don't have to live through minutes, hours, or days of the aftermath before we die. Better to not even know you are dead than to go through the pain. I wonder if my city is on a target list. Maybe, we do have an oil refinery and large steel plant/mill, so we could be a strategic target.

[CayceG]

5 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

I just hope that my family and I are atomized instantly by a detonation and don't have to live through minutes, hours, or days of the aftermath before we die. Better to not even know you are dead than to go through the pain. I wonder if my city is on a target list. Maybe, we do have an oil refinery and large steel plant/mill, so we could be a strategic target.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble. 

 

 

 

[Jason]

Just now, CayceG said:

 

Sorry to burst your bubble. 

 

 

 

 

But will my electronics survive the EMP blast?

[CitizenVectron]

21 minutes ago, CayceG said:

 

Sorry to burst your bubble. 

 

 

 

 

That's my point, though. Let's imagine a scenario where 100-1000 warheads detonate above North American cities. Tens of millions would die in the blasts, and in the days following from resulting injuries/radiation. In the months that follow there would likely be no effective organization of food and resources to survive the next winter, and tens or hundreds millions more would die. I would rather be instantly vaporized at ground zero of a blast than suffer burns or die of starvation or post-war violence.

[CayceG]

You should read "The 2020 Commission."

 

It goes into that. 

 

 

We really should do something about all these nukes and the ease with which they can be used - intentionally or accidentally. 

This is why if there's a nuclear war, I will be ending my life before anything else has a chance to!

[Jason]

6 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

Let's imagine a scenario where 100-1000 warheads detonate above North American cities. Tens of millions would die in the blasts

 

And hundreds of millions of electronic devices would be fried by EMPs.

[elbobo]

Time to build a Pershing III

[Zaku3]

On 10/19/2018 at 5:50 PM, CayceG said:

You should read "The 2020 Commission."

 

It goes into that. 

 

 

We really should do something about all these nukes and the ease with which they can be used - intentionally or accidentally. 

This is why if there's a nuclear war, I will be ending my life before anything else has a chance to!

 

Audiobook purchased

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

On 10/19/2018 at 4:50 PM, CayceG said:

You should read "The 2020 Commission."

 

It goes into that. 

 

 

We really should do something about all these nukes and the ease with which they can be used - intentionally or accidentally. 

This is why if there's a nuclear war, I will be ending my life before anything else has a chance to!

One of my favorite revelations over the past years was how badly operated and maintained nuclear missile silos were in the USA. Some sites didn't even bother to lock the doors, and nuclear launch codes were set to 000000 to make responding to a presidential order to fire expedited. 

 

I'm amazed a Russian spy didn't just walk into one of those silos and nuke us with our own warheads. 

[MarSolo]

2 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

One of my favorite revelations over the past years was how badly operated and maintained nuclear missile silos were in the USA. Some sites didn't even bother to lock the doors, and nuclear launch codes were set to 000000 to make responding to a presidential order to fire expedited. 

 

I'm amazed a Russian spy didn't just walk into one of those silos and nuke us with our own warheads. 

 

What Putin is doing now is more fun for him. He gets to watch his puppet slowly erode America.

 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

Well what I am talking about was what was discovered about the condition of the silos in the 80s and 90s. 

[CayceG]

4 hours ago, Zaku3 said:

 

Audiobook purchased

 

Don't come crying to me when you wake up screaming in the night!

[Joe]

I'm really ignorant on this stuff, but how does the NO PUPPET tag make any sense? Isn't this an antagonistic action towards Russia?

[Jason]

46 minutes ago, Jose said:

I'm really ignorant on this stuff, but how does the NO PUPPET tag make any sense? Isn't this an antagonistic action towards Russia?

 

By backing the US out of the treaty the option to try to hang the Russians' noncompliance with it over their heads is removed. Which gives them more breathing room to keep doing what they've been doing.

 

Plus it's in Putin's interest to nullify American influence via actions like randomly pulling us out of important treaties. He knows he can't make Russia a hegemon like the US has been (not that he even really wants that, but he does want a free hand in the Baltics, Caucasus, etc), so neutering us is the next best thing.

[Joe]

But how important is this treaty if Russia was just blatantly disregarding it to begin with?

[CayceG]

14 minutes ago, Jose said:

But how important is this treaty if Russia was just blatantly disregarding it to begin with?

 

Very important, as it eliminated an entire class of weapons. See my posts in the other thread:

 

But in terms of Russia cheating, that's a reason to go back to the table and reform the deal and update it, not to scrap it altogether. That's giving Russia (and the US) carte blanche to start a new arms race--and each party has stated their intention to do so. 

Also, the US has been cheating from Russia's point of view also. It's why the missile shield was such a big deal--it was probably an INF treaty violation. 

 

 

[SilentWorld]

Nuclear war could be really exciting. I certainly wouldn’t kill myself immediately. At least see how the aftermath shakes out.

 

edit: is nuclear winter still believed to be a possibility or has that been debunked? Nuclear winter could make for some awesome skiing conditions. 

[SuperSpreader]

Nuclear winter can fix global warming

[CayceG]

2 hours ago, SilentWorld said:

Nuclear war could be really exciting. I certainly wouldn’t kill myself immediately. At least see how the aftermath shakes out.

 

edit: is nuclear winter still believed to be a possibility or has that been debunked? Nuclear winter could make for some awesome skiing conditions. 

 

Nuclear winter is absolutely a thing. In the 2020 Commission I believe it mentions that after the exchanges the world suffers minor symptoms of it in terms of cooling. That then causes food shortages and famine that kills our displaces millions.

[Massdriver]

Is it possible Trump is trying to pull a NAFTA with Russia? This seems to be the way he negotiates. 

[SuperSpreader]

2 hours ago, CayceG said:

 

Nuclear winter is absolutely a thing. In the 2020 Commission I believe it mentions that after the exchanges the world suffers minor symptoms of it in terms of cooling. That then causes food shortages and famine that kills our displaces millions.

Pretty sure a strong enough EMP can knock out Russia's capability, perhaps with Space Force.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

8 hours ago, Massdriver said:

Is it possible Trump is trying to pull a NAFTA with Russia? This seems to be the way he negotiates. 

That's exactly what Bob Corker thinks.

[CayceG]

27 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

That's exactly what Bob Corker thinks.

 

Wait, what?

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

5 minutes ago, CayceG said:

 

Wait, what?

 

Amid rising alarm over Donald Trump’s announced withdrawal from a key nuclear weapons treaty with Russia, the Republican chair of the Senate foreign relations committee said he hoped it was “just a move” to achieve a new deal, in the way the president threatened then renegotiated the Nafta trade agreement. “This could be a precursor to try to get Russia to come into compliance,” said Bob Corker, of Tennessee.

[CayceG]

Corker's talking out of his ass because he's being mildly hopeful.

 

The summary I'm seeing from my arms control follows is that in the past, the US has pulled out of arms agreements (the ABM treaty specifically) because we want to develop new weapons. Now, we're pulling out of the INF because *Russia* wants to develop new weapons. There's no upside to our national interest. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Why would Russia want to go back to the table now and limit arms that they want to build/use? What is our leverage? If the Woodward book is to be believed, Trump loves knowing where the leverage is, and who has it.

[Bloodporne]

I'm going to take this opportunity to educate you all on some great German 80's Metal, whether you like it or not. 

 

Sodom - Nuclear Winter

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

 

8 hours ago, 2user1cup said:

Pretty sure a strong enough EMP can knock out Russia's capability, perhaps with Space Force.

I'm sure the Russian's have much of their military equipment equipped with EMP shielding. We do. 

[SuperSpreader]

4 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

 

I'm sure the Russian's have much of their military equipment equipped with EMP shielding. We do. 

Oh I see, but maybe they can build an EMP missile which imprints EMP via the AI code.

[Massdriver]

1 hour ago, CayceG said:

Corker's talking out of his ass because he's being mildly hopeful.

 

The summary I'm seeing from my arms control follows is that in the past, the US has pulled out of arms agreements (the ABM treaty specifically) because we want to develop new weapons. Now, we're pulling out of the INF because *Russia* wants to develop new weapons. There's no upside to our national interest. 

We are talking Donald Trump though. He does things differently than anyone else. Our leverage in his mind may be that he thinks Russia won't want us developing nukes again either. The evidence for this is in virtually every negotiation he has done so far. He throws tariffs up before making a trade deal. He always tends to make a big move like threatening to tear the agreement up or being hostile before the negotiations  start. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

13 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

We are talking Donald Trump though. He does things differently than anyone else. Our leverage in his mind may be that he thinks Russia won't want us developing nukes again either. The evidence for this is in virtually every negotiation he has done so far. He throws tariffs up before making a trade deal. He always tends to make a big move like threatening to tear the agreement up or being hostile before the negotiations  start. 

Except in this case, the counterparty is perfectly happy to let the deal die.