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Matthew Vaughn Wants To Reboot The Star Wars Universe

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thewhyteboar

thewhyteboar

Posted
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5 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

So long as you're aware of it, etc., which you clearly are, that's the most one can ask of anyone. Most adult men don't even get close to understanding this so you're good.

 

 

Yeah, I see it a lot in person and online particularly where for some reason big franchises, and stuff like Star Wars and LOTR in particular, many audience members went in needing everything to go a certain way, etc. and that's not how we normally approach movies. It can be deflating at first for the fan, I get that, but then you have to get over it and judge the movie on its terms.

 

And I agree in that I'd love to jump way ahead in the future too but I have to accept that's unlikely for the time being. But a reboot? No thanks.

I think this is a huge issue with franchises and their fanbases. Fans get way into some intense head-canon, and when the movie doesn't align with their imagination or expectations, they blame the movie. And movies don't (and shouldn't) work that way.

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Greatoneshere

Greatoneshere

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1 hour ago, thewhyteboar said:

I think this is a huge issue with franchises and their fanbases. Fans get way into some intense head-canon, and when the movie doesn't align with their imagination or expectations, they blame the movie. And movies don't (and shouldn't) work that way.

 

100% agreed, it's a bizarre thing. Now criticizing a film on its terms is another thing entirely and TLJ is certainly open to criticism on that front.

 

57 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said:

Seriously, Luke is just a whiny white boy. What's wrong with all of you??? 

 

It's easy to sympathize with a guy that, once you know his family's history, is fucked from jump street but tries his best to do the right thing anyway throughout the OT without knowing basically anything about the Force or what's going on.

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thewhyteboar

thewhyteboar

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32 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

100% agreed, it's a bizarre thing. Now criticizing a film on its terms is another thing entirely and TLJ is certainly open to criticism on that front.

 

 

It's easy to sympathize with a guy that, once you know his family's history, is fucked from jump street but tries his best to do the right thing anyway throughout the OT without knowing basically anything about the Force or what's going on.

Totally agree. I think it's a huge issue with analysis and criticism today; people don't like to approach a film on its own merits but instead try to bring it down for what it was never trying to be. 

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Bacon

Bacon

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57 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

The lengths some people will go to wipe the sequel trilogy from canon is quite funny. 

I mean, we have yet to see anything taking place directly after ep 9. Plenty of things happening before ep4 and after ep6, but nothing after 9.

 

Until then, the sequels aren't real

Obi-Wan Kenobi Not The Droids GIF

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cusideabelincoln

cusideabelincoln

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On 10/23/2023 at 11:19 AM, Kal-El814 said:

 

Even in this example, Dumbledore is still almost universally beloved and Holdo is reviled. I don't think it's literally as simple as Dumbledore is a dude and therefore good and Holdo is a woman and therefore bad. But at the same time I don't think the fact that Holdo is a woman is unrelated to the amount of heat she took from the fandom. It's just a thing that men's flaws give them depth and allow them to be compelling and women are defined solely by their flaws. Rey in TFA took more than her share of shit for being conveniently dope with the Force and while we'll never know for sure, it's difficult to imagine the same thing would have happened if Rey was a guy. Or jumping back to Potter... Snape is a wizard racist who treats Harry like absolute dogshit across thousands of pages because he had one sided, incel-vibe heavy love for Lilly... and he's praised for his depth and characterization. I'm hard pressed to think of ANY female character in pop culture that gets to be that flawed while also being beloved and perceived as ultimately noble? 

 

We see this over and over and over and over. In Endgame the entire plot hinges on a time heist, predestination, Nebula never updating her brain's Wi-Fi password, etc. Yet people thought the ladies teaming up to help Spidey was "contrived." The entire affair was a $300M exercise in fanservice and people lost their suspension of disbelief when a bunch of women happened to be standing next to one another.

 

It's likely not a coincidence that the critics and tastemakers judging and making this content have been, generally, straight white guys.

 

To be clear I don't mean to direct this all at you specifically @cusideabelincoln :) 

 

To @Bacon's point, I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with liking entertainment that goes down stereotypical gender roles, or is heteronormative, or whatever (though I acknowledge that this is a privileged POV). We're not really at any kind of risk for that sort of content going away. The issue is when that's perceived as the default. It's the implicit bias that the ends justify the means and dudes who take action, usually straight white dudes, are ultimately in the right for making "the hard decision." IIRC during the Bush era when people were defending "enhanced interrogation techniques", Antonin Scalia brought up Jack Bauer situations as like... maybe we need to just torture people sometimes because there might be a ticking timebomb somewhere. We see this shit with The Boys where people either miss that Homelander is ACTUALLY a bad person and not just "misunderstood" or want him to have some kind of redemption arc where he sheds a single tear as he dies pushing a nuke into the sun or some shit.

 

It's also why I think that... (spoilers for stuff that happens late into the Invincible comic and that has NOT happened on the show yet)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I'm a person whose first wish if I got a genie would be to destroy all guns in the hands of private citizens immediately and forever, but I like it when John Wick shoots a lot of people in the face. :p So I'm not necessarily saying, "don't make this content ever," but I think it would be better and more interesting if there was more content exploring other perspectives and the people that got to be flawed weren't generally straight white dudes.

 

WTH, I never got a notification for this. Anyway, I mostly agree with you how the general populous expresses their opinions. A certain, significant portion of the population have this implicit bias against women. Using the Dumbledore example was just my personal opinion of him being an idiot. Sidenote: Like, every Harry Potter story has major or minor contrivances to make each installment exciting and it's definitely best to not overthink them, because most of the plots of each movie/book revolves around not telling Harry something very important that could have been told to him way sooner. Back to TLJ: While Holdo as a character is likely an intentional choice to highlight misogyny, I'm still not convinced that every facet of the movie was made with this intention as Greatoneshere's articles pointed out. There are several themes Johnson explores and goals he had with particularly plot points and characters and it doesn't revolve around gender. One of the articles makes the argument that a central theme is about women showing men how to cope with their emotions. I dislike this take, because knowing real people in real life my experience is that women are as equally emotionally unstable as men. I guess if this how someone chooses to see what the movie represents... then fair, because there is some good to come from this messaging. But TLJ was purposefully ambiguous on some things - notably how it wanted to go about representing the Jedi Order and its future - so I think one its goals was to incite discussion and highlight different points of view.

 

On 10/23/2023 at 11:26 AM, Greatoneshere said:

 

You mentioned a number of additional examples that I was thinking of that also bear this all out. The minute a female character in a big, fan-heavy series like the MCU and Star Wars does anything it is scrutinized far differently than a male character. I mean, the vitriol aimed at Brie Larson for not making Captain Marvel a character that immediately appeals to men is something that would never happen with a white male character. All your points are salient - the need to diversify is so important in terms of themes and messaging in film and art.

 

I mostly don't see, and if I do then avoid, the Star Wars women hating and women hating content in general, but holy shit is it really hard to avoid headlines or content about hating Bri Larson. Seems like the most forced narrative out there. 

 

On 10/23/2023 at 2:03 PM, GeneticBlueprint said:

 

It was. I enjoyed reading through the convo.

 

For the record I'm on the "TLJ is great" train for many of the reasons mentioned throughout the thread. But I think what really hits home for me in that movie is actually the thing its detractors most despise: Luke's portrayal. Like, I get it, seeing Luke run in with a laser sword and taking down the First Order would have been cool. That's actually exactly what I was wanting and hoping for when I was anticipating the movie. But I don't think it would have been good. When I was a kid I loved Luke and wanted to be Luke. What young boy didn't? But realistically I couldn't relate to Luke. Sure I wanted to go off on some adventure and be the good guy and hero and all that. But my dad wasn't space Hitler, you know? Now that I'm older, I can relate a lot to Luke in TLJ: I've had a crisis of faith. I've let people down who expected better of me due to my imperfections. I've been at my wits' end trying to discipline and guide an unruly child. I've failed at various and sundry things I've attempted and felt reclusive. I guess to relate that back to what was discussed earlier, I feel like a lot of adult males didn't appreciate that mirror being held up in front of them. Or haven't had those types of experiences and trials in their lives. I almost wish I could say the same but the movie makes a really great point about those experiences being teachers. New and revelatory? No. But beautifully told.

 

And we still get a really badass Luke moment anyways.

 

I liked Luke's arc... until he died. Literally no reason for him to die in that story and his death doesn't accomplish anything for the other characters. It's also especially egregious to have hamstrung the trilogy's story knowing Carrie had died and they had plenty of time to rework that scene before release.

 

On 10/23/2023 at 2:39 PM, Greatoneshere said:

I do 100% agree that it's time to just cast new actors for the OT roles like Luke rather than deep fake shit. It's time, as weird as that will be and it will take getting used to. I mean, Sebastian Stan is right there still, and already works for Disney via the MCU. 

 

The CGI deepfake shit is just never going to let the characters express any nuanced emotion; the technology is not there. Luke in the Mandoverse may as well be a robot since he's nothing like young or old real Mark Hamil.

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Greatoneshere

Greatoneshere

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25 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

I mostly don't see, and if I do then avoid, the Star Wars women hating and women hating content in general, but holy shit is it really hard to avoid headlines or content about hating Bri Larson. Seems like the most forced narrative out there. 

 

It is almost spiteful how many men hate Brie Larson for not giving a shit what they want or think. Probably being an attractive white blonde woman that doesn't cater to them really gets them riled up.

 

25 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

The CGI deepfake shit is just never going to let the characters express any nuanced emotion; the technology is not there. Luke in the Mandoverse may as well be a robot since he's nothing like young or old real Mark Hamil.

 

Yeah, it can work in extremely limited moments but if you're going to do whole scenes or episodes with them it's not gonna work.

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TwinIon

TwinIon

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Getting back to the original article, I might actually prefer rebooting the Skywalker saga if the alternative is to keep remaking the same movie and calling it a sequel.

 

Still, I don't think we'll actually see that happen. I think the only real chance of that happening was when Disney first bought the property. Now they've built up too much content around it to wipe it all away again. The last thing they need is to deal with a DCEU situation. Who is going to re-design the Millennium Falcon when they have giant physical versions in theme parks?

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Bacon

Bacon

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40 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

The sooner everyone arrives at the realization that Rogue One is the best Star Wars movie, the better off we'll all be!

sorry, but I like laser swords and magic

 

chumps with guns can get blowed up along with their planet

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